Should we abolish the capital gains tax?

[RetiredGySgt]

Newt Gingrich thinks so.

What do you think?

Again, YES! You paid taxes on those items all the time you had them. Why should you be taxed again when you sell it and at a huge amount. You paid taxes to buy it, you probably paid taxes on owning it.

Another one that needs to be gotten rid of is the Death Tax.

 

[editec]

Given that the money from capital gains has usually (accept in the case of interest earned on savings accounts) has already been taxed at least once. Taxing capital gains is by and large a rather retarded idea that likely costs the government more money than it earns them in higher unemployment rates, higher health care cost for medicaid etc.

How has money from capita;l gains already been taxed, Gary D?

 

[garyd]

Money from stock dividends was taxed once before it was dispersed as dividends.

If you invested in a small business the money you invested was already taxed before you invested it and was taxed again the minute that small business returned a profit and currently your return on that investment gets taxed yet again.

It also means there is less investment which in turn translates to fewer Jobs which means lower wages and more unemployment and less innovation which means more pollution and other things all of which are bad.

 

[editec]

Money from stock dividends was taxed once before it was dispersed as dividends.

But that is taxed income, not as capital gain, Gary.

If you invested in a small business the money you invested was already taxed before you invested it and was taxed again the minute that small business returned a profit and currently your return on that investment gets taxed yet again.

But that describes EVERY DOLLAR that is ever spent or invested Gary.

Basically what that suggests is that if you make money, and it is taxed, and then should you take the residual money and make more money with it, those profits or revenues should NEVER be taxed because your original investment had already been taxed,

That really doesn't make sense. NEW income is still NEW income. New capital gain is still new capital gain, too.

It also means there is less investment which in turn translates to fewer Jobs which means lower wages and more unemployment and less innovation which means more pollution and other things all of which are bad.

Well that's the argument for no taxation whatever. And while I'd be willing to debate that issue, that really isn't germane to the question of capital gains,

 

[garyd]

In fact it is particularly germane to capital gains since people tend to invest based on the amount of reward they think they will gain thereby except of course in housing. Me I prefer a flat tax exempting x amout of income income as defined by any net fanancial gain. I don't like the fair tax simply because I don't trust the governments willingness to micromanage our lives through the tax code as is already demonstrated by the various so called sin taxes.

 

[editec]

In fact it is particularly germane to capital gains since people tend to invest based on the amount of reward they think they will gain thereby except of course in housing. Me I prefer a flat tax exempting x amout of income income as defined by any net fanancial gain. I don't like the fair tax simply because I don't trust the governments willingness to micromanage our lives through the tax code as is already demonstrated by the various so called sin taxes.

Well if you don't trust government to do a progressive tax fairly, I see no reason for you to trust them to do a flat tax fairly.

Its still the same damned people, isn't it?

If the government is bad and increases progressive taxes then that same goverment would increase the FLAT taxes, too, wouldn't they?

Tell you what...let's eliminate ALL personal income taxes and run our government, as we did for nearly two centuries, on TARIFFS.

Then when Americans want a tax break all they have to do is BUY AMERICAN.

 

[garyd]

Whose talking about a progressive tax? Certainly not I. For my money a flat tax is by definition a fair tax and a progressive tax is unfair by definition.

What is called the fair tax is a national retail sales tax which scares the hell out of me.

 

[Jon]

Basically what that suggests is that if you make money, and it is taxed, and then should you take the residual money and make more money with it, those profits or revenues should NEVER be taxed because your original investment had already been taxed

Do you realize that there are some people who make millions of dollars a year off of capital gains? The reason capital gains are taxed is to prevent those people from being able to earn income without paying taxes.

gary, a fair tax also takes into consideration ability to pay. Because the higher income earnerss are ABLE to pay more in tax, it is considered FAIR to tax them more. If you look at the current tax brackets, most higher income tax payers are still paying around the same average rate as some of the lower taxpayers. In addition, as was stated, most of the higher income earners also receive income from capital gains. If we stop taxing those gains, these people would be earning tax free income that is not available to the lower taxpayers.

Why am I the only one that is actually fighting for a tax system that favors the middle and lower income classes?

 

[Chris]

Yes, we should abolish it in it's current form and tax income from invested capital exactly the same way that income from back breaking labor is taxed. Eliminate the distinction, since it's wholly bogus to begin with.

Exactly.

 

[Avatar4321]

Id love to see capital gains eliminated. Heck id be happy if it was cut in half.

We have the highest in the world and wonder why we arent competitive.

 

[PeterS]

Newt Gingrich thinks so.

What do you think?

Yes, all income should be taxed the same. God I love Newt...

 

[Care4all]

Basically what that suggests is that if you make money, and it is taxed, and then should you take the residual money and make more money with it, those profits or revenues should NEVER be taxed because your original investment had already been taxed

Do you realize that there are some people who make millions of dollars a year off of capital gains? The reason capital gains are taxed is to prevent those people from being able to earn income without paying taxes.

gary, a fair tax also takes into consideration ability to pay. Because the higher income earnerss are ABLE to pay more in tax, it is considered FAIR to tax them more. If you look at the current tax brackets, most higher income tax payers are still paying around the same average rate as some of the lower taxpayers. In addition, as was stated, most of the higher income earners also receive income from capital gains. If we stop taxing those gains, these people would be earning tax free income that is not available to the lower taxpayers.

Why am I the only one that is actually fighting for a tax system that favors the middle and lower income classes?

precisely!

 

[manifold]

...and wonder why we arent competitive.

Speak for yourself. Everything I've seen and learned convinces me that we are very competitive. I wonder why you think we aren't.

 

[garyd]

Carefor etal what bogus nonsense. Because I work longer and harder to get the extra money and to drive my business you have no right to take a higher percentage in taxes from me than you do from anyone else. How the hell do I reward my best workers if you are taking half my damn money year in and year out to fund programs for people who don't want to work or can't work.

 

[Jon]

Because you have more money does not mean you work longer or harder than anyone else, it simply means you are rewarded more for your efforts. I'm the last person to argue that the rich don't deserve the salaries they earn, because I fully believe that everyone is paid the salary they are worth, nothing more and nothing less.

But in a system where the lowest earners are making less than 1% of the highest earners, it's hardly fair to think that everyone should pay equal tax rates. 20% to someone making $20,000 means the difference between feeding their children or living off the government. 20% to a millionaire means nothing, you can still live a lavish lifestyle and stuff money in the bank. Even 30% or 40% means very little to someone earning that sort of income. When a 10% increase in tax means the difference between your being able to provide your family, I'll have sympathy for you. But so long as you can put food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back, everything else is luxury, and less luxury won't kill you. Less MIGHT kill someone making $20,000 a year.

 

[auditor0007]

Whose talking about a progressive tax? Certainly not I. For my money a flat tax is by definition a fair tax and a progressive tax is unfair by definition.

What is called the fair tax is a national retail sales tax which scares the hell out of me.

The fair tax is a joke and its implementation would be a disaster. Besides that, in order to make it "fair", the government has to send money back to everyone. How stupid is that?

The flat tax is what we desperately need. Everyone gets a certain standard deduction and deductions for personal exemptions. Then, everything else is treated as income, including capital gains. I would make one allowance, and that would be to make the capital gains portion based on inflation adjusted numbers. In other words, anyone with capital gains income could reduce it by the amount of inflation for the given timeframe in which it took them to earn that gain. It's not perfect, but it would make a big difference when comparing a short term to a long term capital gain, as long term capital gains are in great part just inflated dollars. No one should have to pay taxes on inflated dollars, only on real gains.

Getting back to the flat tax, it should include everything from wages to capital gains to inheritance. Businesses would also pay the same rate as individuals. As with individuals, businesses could be allowed a standard deduction.

The bottom line would be that the tax rates would be lower for the more wealthy, but there would be no loopholes, and many of them would actually pay more than they do now. At a lower rate however, there would be no reason to complain that they were paying too much.

 

[auditor0007]

Because you have more money does not mean you work longer or harder than anyone else, it simply means you are rewarded more for your efforts. I'm the last person to argue that the rich don't deserve the salaries they earn, because I fully believe that everyone is paid the salary they are worth, nothing more and nothing less.

But in a system where the lowest earners are making less than 1% of the highest earners, it's hardly fair to think that everyone should pay equal tax rates. 20% to someone making $20,000 means the difference between feeding their children or living off the government. 20% to a millionaire means nothing, you can still live a lavish lifestyle and stuff money in the bank. Even 30% or 40% means very little to someone earning that sort of income. When a 10% increase in tax means the difference between your being able to provide your family, I'll have sympathy for you. But so long as you can put food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back, everything else is luxury, and less luxury won't kill you. Less MIGHT kill someone making $20,000 a year.

When talking about a flat tax, you have to understand that the standard deduction would make it so low income earners don't pay any tax. It works the same as it does now. You can even leave the Earned Income Credit in there so certain low income earners actually get money back without paying in. The point is to close all of the loopholes and collect taxes on everything that should be taxed. Lower the rates, make it reasonable. Not only would it work, but it would reduce the size of the IRS by at least half. The only people who would truly suffer would be the tax accountants.

 

[editec]

Basically what that suggests is that if you make money, and it is taxed, and then should you take the residual money and make more money with it, those profits or revenues should NEVER be taxed because your original investment had already been taxed

Do you realize that there are some people who make millions of dollars a year off of capital gains? The reason capital gains are taxed is to prevent those people from being able to earn income without paying taxes.

gary, a fair tax also takes into consideration ability to pay. Because the higher income earnerss are ABLE to pay more in tax, it is considered FAIR to tax them more. If you look at the current tax brackets, most higher income tax payers are still paying around the same average rate as some of the lower taxpayers. In addition, as was stated, most of the higher income earners also receive income from capital gains. If we stop taxing those gains, these people would be earning tax free income that is not available to the lower taxpayers.

Why am I the only one that is actually fighting for a tax system that favors the middle and lower income classes?

You're not...

Flat tax is a simple idea to solve a complex problem that simply will not work.

And while I am very sysmpathetic to those who seek a simpler tax system, a FLAT TAXATION system only works fairly in a world where the incomes that people make are flat, or at least much flatter than they are now.

 

[manifold]

Because I work longer and harder to get the extra money and to drive my business you have no right to take a higher percentage in taxes from me than you do from anyone else. How the hell do I reward my best workers if you are taking half my damn money year in and year out to fund programs for people who don't want to work or can't work.

The same boogie man that TAKES "half" your damn money and then gives a relatively small percentage to people who don't work (most of your damn money goes to defense, infrastructure, public works, police, fire, eductation, etc.) is the same boogie man that makes it possible for you to make any money at all and expect to keep any of it without your own private army. So basically, pull your head out of your ass and quit being such a ******* delusional, self-important, self-absorbed prick.

 

[editec]

Carefor etal what bogus nonsense. Because I work longer and harder to get the extra money and to drive my business you have no right to take a higher percentage in taxes from me than you do from anyone else.

A complaint that is not entirely without merit, GaryD. Even I'll admit that.

How the hell do I reward my best workers if you are taking half my damn money year in and year out to fund programs for people who don't want to work or can't work.

How?


Rather simply...if you PAY YOUR BEST WORKERS MORE MONEY, then guess what?

Those are expenses and as such paying those salaries WILL REDUCE YOUR TAXES.

duh!