Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[Flopper]

So how would you get only informed voters if not for a test?

It's like that one lady that stated she was going to get Obama money, or the woman that said everybody gets an Obama phone. These are voters who are so separated from how our country works it's almost entertaining if not for being so sad.

I think most voters today are very well informed compared 10 or 20 years ago, particularly on issues that directly effect them. 80% of adults have cellphones and that means 24 hour a day news feeds. The constant barrage of political news is unprecedented. And with social media, we live in a partisan echo chamber. The problem is not the quantity of information voters receive but rather the quality.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Don't they have to memorize all the state Capitol in 8th grade? Or is that old school now?

No, just things they should know about before voting. Like who is the VP? What party do they represent? Is our country in debt? If so, how much? Who is the Speaker of the House? What party do they represent? Our spending comes from what branch of government?

Just simple things that any voter should know, and we can even make them multiple choice with five potential answers. Nothing partisan like "Do we need green energy" or "does man control the climate" or any shit like that. A totally bipartisan test that no party could complain about or nothing that could be considered ambiguous.

 

[Wyatt earp]

No, just things they should know about before voting. Like who is the VP? What party do they represent? Is our country in debt? If so, how much? Who is the Speaker of the House? What party do they represent? Our spending comes from what branch of government?

Just simple things that any voter should know, and we can even make them multiple choice with five potential answers. Nothing partisan like "Do we need green energy" or "does man control the climate" or any shit like that. A totally bipartisan test that no party could complain about or nothing that could be considered ambiguous.

Well we do take a stupid drivers test every 20 years or so that a moron could pass at 100 percent

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think most voters today are very well informed compared 10 or 20 years ago, particularly on issues that directly effect them. 80% of adults have cellphones and that means 24 hour a day news feeds. The constant barrage of political news is unprecedent. And with social media, we live in a partisan echo change. The problem is not the quantity of information voters receive but rather the quality.

No, the problem is interest. Most people are not interested in politics. You have to read too much, watch political shows, participate in forums like this one to really understand what's going on in our country and others across the globe. It takes a considerable amount of time.

We are all political junkies. We enjoy this stuff. However some people spend their recreational time with sports only. Others are movie freaks. When I was younger my only interest was music and how I could become the best lead guitar player in my city. I really didn't get into politics until my late 20's or early 30's when I gave up trying to play for Deep Purple or Uriah Heep.

If you're interested in something, you're liable to spend a lot of time with it, like auto repair and things of that nature. I'm lucky if I can find my gas tank to fill the car up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well we do take a stupid drivers test every 20 years or so that a moron could pass at 100 percent

Really? What state is this in? A drivers test every 20 years? I never heard of that before.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Really? What state is this in? A drivers test every 20 years? I never heard of that before.

I made a mistake I had to take a written one in Idaho when I lost my drivers license ( I had a south Carolina one)

I dont know if you do anymore

But I remember an episode of my three sons when the dad had to take another one and failed ( he was using an old study book)

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I made a mistake I had to take a written one in Idaho when I lost my drivers license ( I had a south Carolina one)

I dont know if you do anymore

But I remember an episode of my three sons when the dad had to take another one and failed ( he was using an old study book)

Lol, that does take me back a bit. For a while I was watching that classic sitcom Barney Miller. It was the best show during that time in my opinion.

I was stunned by your comment because I'm a retired professional driver and never heard of taking a test every 20 years, that's why I asked. Here all you have to do is take an eye test every 4 years to renew your license.

 

[Flopper]

Which was basically my point - SS is paid for from the general fund and always has been. The treasury bonds are nothing more than an accounting gimmick.

It is a liability on the overall tax receipts of the nation and the idea that the trust fund will run dry and THEN there will be a problem is a rather inane idea. SS is ALREADY pulling from the general fund and if the trust fund disappeared tomorrow, it would be immaterial to anything. It would not change anything whatsoever unless the government decided that was an excuse to stop paying benefits and such an excuse would be specious at best.

There is no real reason that they should stop benefits as those payments happen from the same source of money with the same total amounts with or without the bonds the government issues to itself and holds itself.

The entire idea is nonsensical.

No, SS retirement is not now and has not been paid out of treasury operating funds since 1940 when the SS trust funds were created. Payroll taxes flow into the trust fund accounts when received by the treasury. Interest on treasury bills are credited to these trust fund accounts. The actual checks are deposited in the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Beneficiaries are paid out of these account. Treasury bills are bought with excess funds in these accounts monthly and Treasury bills are sold back to the treasury when needed to pay benefits or when they mature and are credited to the trust fund accounts.

What is being payed out of operating funds is SSI, Supplemental Social Security Income which provides a benefit for those so badly disabled that they can not work. Although this program carries the name Social Security and is administered by social security it has been funned out of the general fund since 1974. Unlike the Social Security retirement system and Disability Insurance, SSI is a welfare program. It replaced the federal-state adult assistance programs.

The Social Security funds are trust funds which are legal entities governed by the trust documents from the1940 legislation, not to be confused with various goverment accounting funds such as the Operating Fund, Emergency Fund, etc. These trust funds are administered by a board of trustees, 4 are cabinet secretaries and 2 appointed by the president and approved by congress.

The 6.6% S.S. payroll taxes and matching funds from employers plus treasury bond interest is the sole source of funding of both of the Social Security Retirement Fund and the Disability Insurance Fund. SS is required by law to invests account balances in treasury bills monthly and redeem them when money is needed to pay benefits or when they mature.

 

[Flopper]

No they are not. SS beneficiaries have zero bonds in their name.

You know that as well. Now you are just trying to wiggle out of your own claims.

Show me ONE SS bond that is carried by the 'beneficiary.'

Right, the Social Security trust fund contains treasury bills and cash which are it's assets. Beneficiaries are paid monthly out of payroll taxes and interest with excess funds invested in treasury bills and deficiencies covered by redeeming those bills.

 

[dblack]

Right, the Social Security rust fund ...

Okay. I try really, really hard not to jump on typos or misspellings. It's cheap. And petty. But this is pretty funny ...

 

[Flopper]

Actually the fund has about 2.8 trillion dollars. The fund will be depleted in about 12 or 13 years. At that time one or more of several things will happen:

• Social Security checks will go down by 25% so contribution will be equal to payouts.
• Employee and Employer payroll taxes will increase
• Retirement ages goes up
• Some benefits such as survivor benefits or disability decreases
• Government makes up the shortfall by paying it out of mandatory operating funds requiring a tax increase.

What we should be doing now is increasing retirement age by 1 or 2 year and increase payroll taxes by .4% to bring it up to 7%. This will add at least 10 or 15 more years of life to the fund and when interest rates go up as they must eventually, it will extend the life of the fund even further. Congress will decide on a combination of the above, hopefully sooner and not later.

The high inflation which is forcing S.S to pay a high COAs while treasury interest rates are in toilet is draining the fund such that it might not even last 12 years.

 

[Flopper]

Okay. I try really, really hard not to jump on typos or misspellings. It's cheap. And petty. But this is pretty funny ...

I agree. I corrected it. It is no long the Social Security Rust Fund

 

[Flopper]

No, just things they should know about before voting. Like who is the VP? What party do they represent? Is our country in debt? If so, how much? Who is the Speaker of the House? What party do they represent? Our spending comes from what branch of government?

Just simple things that any voter should know, and we can even make them multiple choice with five potential answers. Nothing partisan like "Do we need green energy" or "does man control the climate" or any shit like that. A totally bipartisan test that no party could complain about or nothing that could be considered ambiguous.

If the only thing that interest them in the election is a candidate that agrees with them on abortion or taxes, or a bond issue to build a new high school, what difference does it make whose the Speaker of the House or how much the national debt is. Essential all adults should have a voice in how their government is run, particularly on issues or candidates that they have interest.

It would be great if voters were knowledgeable of the candidates, the issues, politics, and government but many if not most voters are not and that is no reason to take away their right to vote.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If the only thing that interest them in the election is a candidate that agrees with them on abortion or taxes, or a bond issue to build a new high school, what difference does it make whose the Speaker of the House or how much the national debt is. Essential all adults should have a voice in how their government is run, particularly on issues or candidates that they have interest.

It would be great if voters were knowledgeable of the candidates, the issues, politics, and government but many if not most voters are not and that is no reason to take away their right to vote.

I could care less about local elections. My concern is about federal elections. And I think that if we could weed out people that don't know anything about candidates, issues or politics, we would end up with much better leadership. Understood that you would like to see them vote because ignorant voters will always vote Democrat. After all, Democrat sounds like democracy, and democracy is a good thing....... right? But it robs us of potential leadership that can advance our country.

 

[FA_Q2]

No, SS retirement is not now and has not been paid out of treasury operating funds since 1940 when the SS trust funds were created. Payroll taxes flow into the trust fund accounts when received by the treasury. Interest on treasury bills are credited to these trust fund accounts. The actual checks are deposited in the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Beneficiaries are paid out of these account. Treasury bills are bought with excess funds in these accounts monthly and Treasury bills are sold back to the treasury when needed to pay benefits or when they mature and are credited to the trust fund accounts.

What is being payed out of operating funds is SSI, Supplemental Social Security Income which provides a benefit for those so badly disabled that they can not work. Although this program carries the name Social Security and is administered by social security it has been funned out of the general fund since 1974. Unlike the Social Security retirement system and Disability Insurance, SSI is a welfare program. It replaced the federal-state adult assistance programs.

The Social Security funds are trust funds which are legal entities governed by the trust documents from the1940 legislation, not to be confused with various goverment accounting funds such as the Operating Fund, Emergency Fund, etc. These trust funds are administered by a board of trustees, 4 are cabinet secretaries and 2 appointed by the president and approved by congress.

The 6.6% S.S. payroll taxes and matching funds from employers plus treasury bond interest is the sole source of funding of both of the Social Security Retirement Fund and the Disability Insurance Fund. SS is required by law to invests account balances in treasury bills monthly and redeem them when money is needed to pay benefits or when they mature.

And where, again, do the funds from the redeemed bonds come from?

The general fund.

 

[FA_Q2]

Right, the Social Security trust fund contains treasury bills and cash which are it's assets. Beneficiaries are paid monthly out of payroll taxes and interest with excess funds invested in treasury bills and deficiencies covered by redeeming those bills.

Yes, assets held by one section of the government and liabilities held by another section of government.

So, the total value of the bonds to the government would be....

0.

It is a bond where the asset and the liability are both held by the same entity, the federal government.

 

[Blues Man]

It’s still income

It's a different class entirely

 

[Blues Man]

Sure lol

So you have absolutely no investments that qualify for capital gains treatment?

If you don;t it's your own fault

 

[Blues Man]

Lol. Everyone?

Yes IF they choose to take advantage of them.

Everyone can find a little money to invest if they want to

If they don;t then that's their own fault.

Like I said I grew up in poverty, real poverty and I managed to start investing when I was 18 because I realized it was my only way out

 

[Blues Man]

Please read the Propublica series I linked above. Are you aware many billionaires have paid zero to almost nothing in income taxes for many years? If you think this is just fine, you’re crazy.

Are you aware money buys political power? If you aren’t, please get informed before posting again.

WHaaaaaa

No billionaire ever stopped anyone from improving their own financial position

I never indulged in petty jealousy of those with more than me and rather concentrated on improving my own situation