Should the mods/admins enforce Zone 2 Rules in the Politics Forum?

[Quantum Windbag]

Who's being the tough guy now?

By the ay, I have been talking this way for over half a century. I thrive on arguing with people, and always express myself the same way. No one has ever even tried to kill me.

Have you considered the possibility that you are an idiot?

That, dear idiot, is the difference between a flame, AKA being childish, and being an adult and throwing around casual insults. You, dear idiot, are a child, which is why you want the rules changed.

No, the difference is that there is flaming and there is hiding behind a keyboard. In normal conversation, we all talk shit. You take it a step further...thus, if you talked to me or anyone else in real life this way, you would get the shit stomped out of you. No meltdown, no threats...just the honest truth.

I take it you still live at home with mommy...probably have never cooked your own meal and have 2 internet buddies that you have been talking about meeting in real life for about 5 years now. I know your type. Useless internet pussy. That explains why you moderation scares you.

No,

People should be able to argue intensely just like on the street.

Cowards like this don't talk like this in person. Or at least, they don't in MY world.

Foul language, bullying would not be tolerated IRL. If they had to face IRL consequences, they'd run away.

Just an FYI, Nutz is the guy that actually made a threat in this thread.

Just saying.

 

[Nutz]

No, the difference is that there is flaming and there is hiding behind a keyboard. In normal conversation, we all talk shit. You take it a step further...thus, if you talked to me or anyone else in real life this way, you would get the shit stomped out of you. No meltdown, no threats...just the honest truth.

I take it you still live at home with mommy...probably have never cooked your own meal and have 2 internet buddies that you have been talking about meeting in real life for about 5 years now. I know your type. Useless internet pussy. That explains why you moderation scares you.

No,

People should be able to argue intensely just like on the street.

Cowards like this don't talk like this in person. Or at least, they don't in MY world.

Foul language, bullying would not be tolerated IRL. If they had to face IRL consequences, they'd run away.

Just an FYI, Nutz is the guy that actually made a threat in this thread.

Just saying.

No threat...just explaining what would happen if you spewed your nonsense to people face to face. But you aren't that stupid...you stay hidden behind your keyboard.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Thirteen pages later the results are in. We all need to walk on egg shells around Nutz, because his passive aggressive nature is just more than we want to deal with. He's completely unable to see he treats people in a bigoted manner. Of course, that is part of what bigots do correct?

Interesting.

This thread is not about Nutz as an individual. But you decided to get personal and insulting, which indeed IS the theme of this thread.

Thank you for proving Derideo_Te's point to a certain point...

Read his posts, then come back and admit that saveliberty is right.

Alternatively, you could continue to pretend you are smarter than everyone else, and continue to look like a fool.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Interesting.

This thread is not about Nutz as an individual. But you decided to get personal and insulting, which indeed IS the theme of this thread.

Thank you for proving Derideo_Te's point to a certain point...

This whole thread grew out of Nutz's comments on another thread. My point was Nutz is exactly what he claims to want eliminated. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of the thread no? Every thread interjecting opinion is personal. No insults were made according to Nutz's own definition he has applied here regularly in the thread.

No. Nice dodge. Interjecting something personal doesn't mean you get personal about one specific person. You do understand this very simple concept, right?

Seriously?

You do understand the meaning of personal, don't you?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This whole thread grew out of Nutz's comments on another thread. My point was Nutz is exactly what he claims to want eliminated. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of the thread no? Every thread interjecting opinion is personal. No insults were made according to Nutz's own definition he has applied here regularly in the thread.

No. Nice dodge. Interjecting something personal doesn't mean you get personal about one specific person. You do understand this very simple concept, right?

That's the whole problem....many here do not understand the concept of insulting the message but not the messenger. Just like they can't tell when a comment is racist, they also cannot tell when they are attacking the poster instead of his post. You can't fix stupid.

I don't have a problem with leaving things as they are, because I have my way of dealing with such members. It was just my opinion that it should be relegated to the FZ, but I'm not going to let a "few" uncivil members run me off.....I just ignore them. It's no fun when your posts are being ignored. I let someone just as nasty as them respond to them and that is why we have what we have......it is on both sides. Anyone claiming that it is only from one side is either a partisan hack or totally ignorant.

Any adult that cannot handle the occasional insult needs serious psychiatric help, and I see no reason to change board rules in order to make it easier for crazy people to avoid reality.

 

[Gracie]

From what I have seen in this thread and the now closed thread, Nutz wants everyone to conform to HIS way of thinking...and until they do, he will continue to use words others consider insulting because to him...it's "payback". Do as he demands, or else. And, any disagreement from anyone else is "racist" because this board is nothing BUT "racists". In short...he wants to dictate.

Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Derideo_Te]

There is this discussion in the Politics forum;

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/366180-does-any-real-discussion-happen-on-usmb-or-just-insults-namecalling-and-lies.html

From what I can gather there is a bipartisan interest in cleaning it up by having the mods/admins enforce the Zone 2 Rules to eliminate the useless flaming and trolling.

So the intent of this poll is to find out who is interested in having a Political forum where flaming is not allowed?

The mods and admins can weigh in with their opinions since this impacts them too.

Please note that if you vote for cleaning it up you will be expected to clean up your own act too.

Thank you for your participation.
DT

[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] - because of lots of extra stuff going on, I have not read the thread in it's entirety yet, so I may accidentally repeat what others have already said, but my 2 cents, in the Reader's Digest version.

1.) I cherish free-speech, even when it gets ugly.

2.) People should have enough common sense to argue the topic and not attack the person with whom they disagree. But some people are just plain old stupid, and forgive me, but that is something that rules cannot fix.

3.) Too many limits forces the mods to work overtime, and I don't think they deserve it.

Insults in general, aimed at an entire group, also aimed at known figures, should definitely be allowed.

Although I find it really douchebaggy and stupid and unbecoming of a person to call our President or one of our Senators, for instance, an "asshole" - I do believe that that person has the right to do it. Besides, I can always ignore the posting, put the poster on ignore, or if he is a big enough douchebag, I could always neg him.

Personal insults is another story entirely, and I think that CK has been very, very clear about this. In the politics forum, it is indeed allowed to insult another member so long as part of your posting is still relevant to the OP itself. I am talking about insults that are not including in the small USMB list of "forbiddens", i.e. accusing a member of pedophelia, bestiality or attack that member's family.

I am not sure that putting tighter restrictions on debate format in the politics forum is going to elevate debate.

Better to leave it the way it is and report things egregious.


Those were my two cents.

-Stat

Thank you for your considered response.

This is not about any NEW LIMITATIONS at all.

This is about enforcing the EXISTING Zone 2 Rules.

Right now the Politics forum might as well be the Flame Zone given that there is virtually no enforcement at all.

The Zone 2 Rules are pretty clear but the lack of enforcement is making the Politics forum equally as unsavory as the FZ. Given that non-members cannot see what goes on in the FZ but they can see what is being posted in the Politics forum is giving USMB a bad name when you see the kind of filth posted in this thread.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/366362-acceptance-of-child-pornography-next-on-lefts-agenda.html

Is this how USMB wants itself to be seen by outsiders?

Is this how USMB members want to be perceived by outsiders?

As a place that enables that kind of scum?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Thirteen pages later the results are in. We all need to walk on egg shells around Nutz, because his passive aggressive nature is just more than we want to deal with. He's completely unable to see he treats people in a bigoted manner. Of course, that is part of what bigots do correct?

Interesting.

This thread is not about Nutz as an individual. But you decided to get personal and insulting, which indeed IS the theme of this thread.

Thank you for proving Derideo_Te's point to a certain point...

This whole thread grew out of Nutz's comments on another thread. My point was Nutz is exactly what he claims to want eliminated. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of the thread no? Every thread interjecting opinion is personal. No insults were made according to Nutz's own definition he has applied here regularly in the thread.

Nope!

It came from all of the responses to Little Acorn's thread.

Making it personal the way you are doing is the problem. Keeping the personal out of the debates is the solution.

You can express your opinion on a topic without being insulting. You can read someone else'e opinion on a topic without taking it personally.

That is how adults debate.

It really is that simple.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I feel this is not a political issue in the slightest. What most people seem to want is personal attacks and trolling, name-calling and insulting, to be quelled. This isn't the fault of the Left, and it isn't the fault of the Right. It's not party vs. party. It's members of both parties who, instead of showing respect, courtesy, restraint and civility, they resort to getting nasty, vulgar, mean, and trollish.

We need to approach this issue universally instead of blaming one whole group while pretending the same behavior isn't also coming from elsewhere. That is the very essence of political hackery. Extreme bias. A corruption and mockery of everything fair and applied unilaterally.

Calling someone a **** or a faggot in politics simply because you disagree is wrong. It is really difficult for me to want to commit energy into having quality discussions when rabid partisans jump in on either side of the issue and shit all over the thread. I just want to reach through my monitor and smack them with an open hand. These so-called adults act like children, having complete and utter disrespect and inconsideration for everyone else. They're big kids, they don't know how to debate because they think debate is where you call people names, and they're nothing more than general nuisances who aren't aware of their own stupidity.

I really don't mind or care if you have strongly-held beliefs on the political spectrum. Just don't be despicable person. If you call people names because you disagree with what they say, you're incredibly weak, and you've shown that it's far too difficult for you to be calm, collected, and thoroughly refute their points with patience and mutual respect. Trolling, name-calling, personal insults, and being any manner of disrespectful brute is the first and foremost issue. Partisan hackery comes second. I don't mind hacks so long as they aren't despicable and out of control, because I can easily ignore them or hopefully deal with their fallacious posts in a calm manner. I wish people would go by the rule of "do no harm," and also treat people as they'd wish to be treated. And, maybe, try to be fair, honest, understanding, and any other conceivable thing that leads to damned good and worthwhile talks.

On a side note, positive influence is also contagious, and I'd like to see what people can do with that.

Feel free to be as positive as you want, I will continue to be myself. It frees me to laugh when a gay rights poster implies that I am actually queer simply because I refuse to accept their agenda.

 

[Gracie]

Perhaps another forum would work. One called Heavy Hitting Party Opinions or some such name.

And...what does Staff think about all this?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

With the signs they carry, they describe themselves as racist.

And, listen to tp politicians - racist and they encourage that same mindless hate in their followers. That attracts even more racists.

The people who carried those signs turned out to be left wing political activists trying like hell to slander the TEA Party. Color me unsurprised that you bought the meme. Of course it helped that you so wanted it to be true.

Link? Why didn't the teapers kick them out?

They weren't in, how could anyone kick them out?

 

[saveliberty]

You have blinders on DT.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The key moment in the debate occurs with the first troll or derogatory comment Wake. Do I flip into troll mode or keep on the topic? A choice that in that moment will give control to the troll or me.

It is good if you don't return fire with fire, but when you're in the same discussion, or you're talking in the thread you've started, what do you do when 3+ trolls of various partisan stripes just gut it? They tear apart quality discussion like knives tear through flesh. There is little if any recourse to save your thread.

Precisely!

That is when the EXISTING Zone 2 Rules must be invoked.

But that is not what is happening.

Why not?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You know, being wrong on a point doesn't invalidate your entire existence. If you act that way, you can't grow.

But it is so hard to admit you are wrong. I know, it almost kills me sometimes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cowards like this don't talk like this in person. Or at least, they don't in MY world.

Foul language, bullying would not be tolerated IRL. If they had to face IRL consequences, they'd run away.

Just an FYI, Nutz is the guy that actually made a threat in this thread.

Just saying.

No threat...just explaining what would happen if you spewed your nonsense to people face to face. But you aren't that stupid...you stay hidden behind your keyboard.

You specifically threatened violence against me if you ever came face to face with me, after accusing me of being an internet tough guy. I never make threats on the internet, so I am not the tough guy.

Which proves how much of a hypocrite you actually are.

 

[Nutz]

Just an FYI, Nutz is the guy that actually made a threat in this thread.

Just saying.

No threat...just explaining what would happen if you spewed your nonsense to people face to face. But you aren't that stupid...you stay hidden behind your keyboard.

You specifically threatened violence against me if you ever came face to face with me, after accusing me of being an internet tough guy. I never make threats on the internet, so I am not the tough guy.

Which proves how much of a hypocrite you actually are.

 

[Wake]

I do not think USMB's rules should conform to Nutz's point of view, because I feel it is dangerous. It's that feeling you get from more partisan Leftists/Progressives that assert there is racism... when there isn't. I do think there is racism from some on USMB, but calling the forum racist is laughable. Personally I think people should have the freedom to question and discuss the details in each other's cultures, "races," etc. Personally I'm swayed by the notion that race doesn't exist at all, but few seem to subscribe to it.

Does anyone here know Jimmy Norton from Opie and Anthony? Or Adam Carolla? I like how they stand up to the golden calves like GLAAD. Do I think their vulgarity should be allowed here? No, not if it's personal trolling. But the ideas and arguments they make should be allowed in a peaceful setting. I abhor the idea of having to tip-toe around certain people of minority groups because any slight or disagreement they're quick to label as racism or hatred. Political Correctness, in my opinion, should be denounced. Ideas should be allowed to be discussed: calling people vile, personal names shouldn't.

I do agree with Gracie's #246. Please don't be so awfully quick to call people racists. It makes you look like you're crying wolf, and hurts all African-Americans, because it makes them all look bad, as if they all cry racism.

 

[Gracie]

Perhaps topics NOT belonging in the political forum should be reported. I just did on two of them. Captain America Is Black....is not political. How Obama works out is not political.

Maybe THIS is the problem.

 

[Nutz]

I do not think USMB's rules should conform to Nutz's point of view, because I feel it is dangerous. It's that feeling you get from more partisan Leftists/Progressives that assert there is racism... when there isn't. I do think there is racism from some on USMB, but calling the forum racist is laughable. Personally I think people should have the freedom to question and discuss the details in each other's cultures, "races," etc. Personally I'm swayed by the notion that race doesn't exist at all, but few seem to subscribe to it.

Does anyone here know Jimmy Norton from Opie and Anthony? Or Adam Carolla? I like how they stand up to the golden calves like GLAAD. Do I think their vulgarity should be allowed here? No, not if it's personal trolling. But the ideas and arguments they make should be allowed in a peaceful setting. I abhor the idea of having to tip-toe around certain people of minority groups because any slight or disagreement they're quick to label as racism or hatred. Political Correctness, in my opinion, should be denounced. Ideas should be allowed to be discussed: calling people vile, personal names shouldn't.

I do agree with Gracie's #246. Please don't be so awfully quick to call people racists. It makes you look like you're crying wolf, and hurts all African-Americans, because it makes them all look bad, as if they all cry racism.

How did this all get to be about Nutz????

You guys are so blinded, you missed what I clearly said or I am missing what you clearly want. If you want it okay for Teapers to use this forum as an excuse to call black people, ******, porch monkey, tarbaby...etc...then so be it. But don't bitch because I use the word Teaper! Or make fun of Germans about their hate and bloodlust...or point to canadians and their insignificance.

It seems as if you guys think racism against black is okay...but no other hate will be tolerated. Of course, that is why Steve McGarrett's hate threads always remain front and center. Of course, that is why the only new members are rabid racists that continue the nastiness spewed by SJ, Traintime, McGarrett, Tank et al.

God forbid...Teaper is used. We wouldn't want to hurt warwulf's feelings...he is white.

Fucking pathetic.

 

[Dante]

Thanks for inviting me.

It's hard to find a discussion in those sections that aren't filled with trolling, calling people names, "*****," "faggots," etc. I go to the CDZ for good discussion, but that doesn't get much traffic.

So if we were to go to the archies?