Should a Jewish Bakery Have the Right to Deny...

[bripat9643]

Why does starting your own business mean you no longer have freedom to make your own choices exactly?

It's based on a basic principle of liberalism that posits you and all you produce are the property of the state. Your business exists to serve the state first and your own purposes second.

That's incorrect. It's based on the idea that societies get to set rules for those within said society.

Where did "society" get the authority to set rules for who I can do business with?

 

[The T]

Comparing gays with Hitler?

Isn't that a teeny bit of a stretch, even for a ******* nutcase?

GAY isn't a RACE...dumbass.

Nazi isn't a sect of Christianity.

Smarty pants.

NAZI's were a gang of Fascists that used the occult for ultimate control. Seems to me THAT is what YOU advocate. And since I didn't bring them up and you saw fit to? I address it.

Try again DOLT.

 

[bripat9643]

Nope. But it can sure as hell tell you what you can and can't with it eh?

I assume you meant to say the government can tell you what to do with it. If that's the case, then you don't own it. The government does.

That's correct, and I fixed it, TY.

And I think not. If they owned it they would be making the payments. No, you own it, we just get to tell you how or if you can drive it, at least on our roads that is.

Not true. Ownership means control. If you don't control it, you don't own it. Lots of men have to make child support payments. Do they own their children?

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

...a Christian Ideology based White Power group who goes into a Jewish bakery and request a cake in the shape a HHH and a burning cross? If they Jew denied baking this cake, since it's deeply against their religious faith?

Should the Jewish baker be forced to bake such a cake.


I mean few people argued the Baker was wrong when he refused to bake the cake "Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler!"

Adolf Hitler denied his birthday cake - Telegraph

Yet in AZ one can not conceive that a religious baker has any argument in not baking a cake for a gay marriage.

The vast vast majority of Christian bakers that don't want any part of a gay marriage ceremony would be fine selling to gays for any other occasion.

I personally disagree with a baker not making money for a gay marriage ceremony, but I can see their argument.

Go back to the birthday cake for Adolf Hitler, I think that baker was in the right and so did most people!

If they offer a custom cake baking/decorating service to the public, yes they would have to do the cake.

They might have a policy of not doing anything obscene, offensive, etc., but then it would be a matter of whether they could apply that policy to this case.

What a statist bootlick you are, an utterly clueless sheep. The right to refuse service is a well-established principle in natural, constitutional and case law, you idiot, one that leftists thugs are trying to overthrow.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Nutters are on the wrong side of this issue.

We have laws. These laws, created by man, ensure that businesses......who benefit from the stability that our laws provide.....cannot discriminate on the basis or race, gender, sexual orientation....etc,

Now...watch your former hero.....the disrespectful and intellectually challenged Jan Brewer....as she reads the writing on the wall and vetoes this asinine bill.

The only thing asinine is your ignorance about what the proposed bill actually does.

Once again, for the mindless thugs of statism.

The bill does not allow persons to refuse service simply on the basis of one’s sexual orientation. Hogwash.

The bill merely allows that persons may lawfully decline service based on moral/religious grounds relative to the kind of service requested. In other words, no forcing orthodox Christians or Jews, for example, in violation of their religious convictions and, therefore, in violation of their natural and constitutional rights, to produce expressions that are morally anathema to them, to participate in pagan rituals that are morally anathema to them, to allow persons on their property to engage in behavior that is morally anathema to them and so on, an already well-established principle in case law that homofascists are trying to overthrow.

Only the morally or mentally insane--for example, homofascist thugs--would fail to understand or pretend not to understand why one would have the right to refuse service on those grounds in our constitutional Republican.

The law asserts nothing new, but has become necessary in order to stave off rapacious litigation based on laws that should have never been passed in the first place or challenges to religious liberties that should have never been heard by any court in the land in the first place.

Welcome to the real motive behind the homofascist agenda of marriage and “tolerance.” Or does anyone actually believe that these thugs would tolerate behavior on their property that offended their moral sensibilities, such as they are, or would tolerate being compelled to engage in behavior that offended them?

The law protects us all.

Does a Christian or a Jew have to participate in Nazi rallies or weddings? Take photos? Serve cakes and other goodies?

Let’s send skinheads over to the homofascist-owned businesses in our communities.

We’d hear the squeals and screams for miles. Yeah. They’d learn the necessity of free association, the importance of property rights and individual liberty in a hurry. But of course they already know all that.

Check out what these tolerant dears do when Christians peacefully exercise their First Amendment rights on the public sidewalks and thoroughfares owned by everyone.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcKJEHrvwDI]Gay Marriage Mob Violently Attacks Elderly Woman - YouTube[/ame]

This footage begins after the Christians were physically assaulted and before the police arrived to protect them. One homofascist objects to the cops stopping him from continuing to follow the Christians “on the public sidewalk” Another calls these Christians cowards. Zoom! Right over their bullying heads.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI9ckQ6494k#aid=P8t5KBguhgg]Gay's Attack Christians in Seattle - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Xb-au-wpU]Castro District Gays Attack A Christian Missionary - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTuqXiHzZtk]Christians Assaulted in San Francisco - YouTube[/ame]

Check out what homofascists are doing in England against private educational concerns.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84OeMfeVijA]Christian Schools Under Attack for Not Promoting Homosexuality as Normal - YouTube[/ame]

Check out what homofascists do on private property.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZJvMzSKmKA]Gay Anarchists Disrupt Church Service - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llIOdgOZLF4]Homosexual activists terrorize Boston church - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yXaPFwBdkA&list=PLE6AF0BE0B532ECC3]Bash Back - Gay AntiChristian Terrorists - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZJvMzSKmKA]Gay Anarchists Disrupt Church Service - YouTube[/ame]

Argentina: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77t3vbidB0w]Feminists attackssss Argentina cathedral - YouTube[/ame]

Check out my signature below.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

...a Christian Ideology based White Power group who goes into a Jewish bakery and request a cake in the shape a HHH and a burning cross? If they Jew denied baking this cake, since it's deeply against their religious faith?

Should the Jewish baker be forced to bake such a cake.


I mean few people argued the Baker was wrong when he refused to bake the cake "Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler!"

Adolf Hitler denied his birthday cake - Telegraph

Yet in AZ one can not conceive that a religious baker has any argument in not baking a cake for a gay marriage.

The vast vast majority of Christian bakers that don't want any part of a gay marriage ceremony would be fine selling to gays for any other occasion.

I personally disagree with a baker not making money for a gay marriage ceremony, but I can see their argument.

Go back to the birthday cake for Adolf Hitler, I think that baker was in the right and so did most people!

I believe the example here is extreme and doubt it would happen and if that were to happen then they should have the right to refuse those who are a threat to their very existence, given white hate groups call for their death.

However, this can be looked at in another way IMO. If a Buddhist wanted a cake made of Buddha with the swastika symbol on his chest or just the swastika should that bakery say no? The swastika meant a totally different thing before the Nazi's took the symbol over. How would one determine who wanted the symbol for the correct meaning or the polluted meaning given by Nazi's?

If you have to ask, you must be a statist.

 

[bripat9643]

Are you 11-years-old by chance? And yes, we do. Buy some property and find out. And remember to pay your taxes, those come with the property.

And if people don't do with their business what you want them to, then you support government using guns to force them to do it. But only because you're a liberal who believes in freedom...

Guns? Those are almost never needed. No, we have City Hall, Zoning Boards, and a whole alphabet soup of State and Federal agencies to guide them towards a better future. Kicking and screaming if necessary.

Everything those agencies do is backed up with guns.

 

[bripat9643]

Guns? Those are almost never needed. No, we have City Hall, Zoning Boards, and a whole alphabet soup of State and Federal agencies to guide them towards a better future. Kicking and screaming if necessary.

^^Supporter of TYRANNY.

Common sense in this case. Laws make the place livable.

And really, stop being childish and thinking you can do whatever you want. It isn't true.

Some laws do. Most don't. The ones against raping, robbing and killing make it livable. The rest is oppression.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The PC Police are very concerned with "the law" when it suits them.

Funny, I don't see them standing up for "the law" when it comes to illegal immigration.

.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

So this skinhead goes to the Jewish bakery and asks for a Hitler birthday cake...

...why is it that every hypothetical the Right concocts to defend one of their wacky beliefs sounds like a pitch for a satirical comedy?

Why do leftists never answer the questions that destroy their mindless reasoning and expose their tyrannical hatred for the liberty and private property of those with whom they disagree?

 

[emilynghiem]

...a Christian Ideology based White Power group who goes into a Jewish bakery and request a cake in the shape a HHH and a burning cross? If they Jew denied baking this cake, since it's deeply against their religious faith?

Should the Jewish baker be forced to bake such a cake.


I mean few people argued the Baker was wrong when he refused to bake the cake "Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler!"

Adolf Hitler denied his birthday cake - Telegraph

Yet in AZ one can not conceive that a religious baker has any argument in not baking a cake for a gay marriage.

The vast vast majority of Christian bakers that don't want any part of a gay marriage ceremony would be fine selling to gays for any other occasion.

I personally disagree with a baker not making money for a gay marriage ceremony, but I can see their argument.

Go back to the birthday cake for Adolf Hitler, I think that baker was in the right and so did most people!

Can't find the name Adolf Hitler in the Christian Bible. What book was he in again?

You're trying to be an asshole?

RE: Hitler and the Bible
Some may include Hitler in the interpretation the "spirit of antichrist" mentioned in the Bible, where Hitler was a prime historic example or manifestation of "collective retribution" and abuse of govt power for lawless destruction "in the name of Justice" or "in the name of the Law" (in Biblical terms, in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Lord) as Hitler and the people running the camps did believe they were doing their duty to God. Peter Loth, a Holocaust survivor who speaks publicly on forgiveness and healing of the abuses he endured all his life, showed footage of the people running the death camps taking breaks to sing Christian hymnals like a choir, in between killing people.

These were normal people who did this, and that is what makes it so tragic and humbling.

RE: "Adolph Hitler" this young boy
If I were the baker, I would have no problem honoring the boy no matter what his name is. if my issue was with the parents' agenda, I would offer to bake the cake for free as a gift, but not take their money. and just do it as a favor for them entrusting me to honor their son, and avoid any of the politics that do not need to be part of that cake for the boy.

if they only wanted to make a statement or public spectacle, then my actions would take the steam out or silence any thunder. So they have a choice to honor the boy for his sake, or take their business elsewhere if they didn't want this nice, they wanted it to get ugly.
I would not go along with that, but would offer to give the cake for free to avoid conflict.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He thinks that freedom is forcing people under the threat of guns to do what he believes they should do. It's preposterous.

We do that here, at times, but that's no freedom eh? True freedom is Anarchy. I'm a fan of that either. Tell us, why are there limits on Free Speech? Doesn't that go against the Constitution?

Freedom is the right to make your own choices, it is not the right to make other people's choices for them

Equal rights trump freedom in a civilized democratic society.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

...a Christian Ideology based White Power group who goes into a Jewish bakery and request a cake in the shape a HHH and a burning cross? If they Jew denied baking this cake, since it's deeply against their religious faith?

Should the Jewish baker be forced to bake such a cake.


I mean few people argued the Baker was wrong when he refused to bake the cake "Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler!"

Adolf Hitler denied his birthday cake - Telegraph

Yet in AZ one can not conceive that a religious baker has any argument in not baking a cake for a gay marriage.

The vast vast majority of Christian bakers that don't want any part of a gay marriage ceremony would be fine selling to gays for any other occasion.

I personally disagree with a baker not making money for a gay marriage ceremony, but I can see their argument.

Go back to the birthday cake for Adolf Hitler, I think that baker was in the right and so did most people!

Again, your premise fails because it is a fallacy, comparing two dissimilar things.

A Jewish baker does not make ‘Adolf Hitler’ birthday cakes as part of his standard business practice, whereas a Christian who makes wedding cakes indeed makes wedding cakes as part of his standard business practice. For the Christian baker to refuse service to gay Americans where that identical service is afforded to other customers is a violation of public accommodations laws.

A Jewish baker who refuses to sell an ‘Adolf Hitler’ birthday cake to neo-Nazis or anti-Semites is not in violation of public accommodations laws because that’s a service he doesn’t provide to anyone in any event, including neo-Nazis and anti-Semites.

The issue, therefore, has nothing to do with the item sold – a cake – but the refusal of offering a service to one class of persons while providing that same service to everyone else.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It's based on a basic principle of liberalism that posits you and all you produce are the property of the state. Your business exists to serve the state first and your own purposes second.

That's incorrect. It's based on the idea that societies get to set rules for those within said society.

Where did "society" get the authority to set rules for who I can do business with?

From the same place they got the authority to create the society in the first place.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I assume you meant to say the government can tell you what to do with it. If that's the case, then you don't own it. The government does.

That's correct, and I fixed it, TY.

And I think not. If they owned it they would be making the payments. No, you own it, we just get to tell you how or if you can drive it, at least on our roads that is.

Not true. Ownership means control. If you don't control it, you don't own it. Lots of men have to make child support payments. Do they own their children?

Ownership means responsibility. As for control, that we limit, for good reason, including that used to control your children. We, as a society, have an interest. If you don't like our rules, you are free to leave. That is one of our rules.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

And if people don't do with their business what you want them to, then you support government using guns to force them to do it. But only because you're a liberal who believes in freedom...

Guns? Those are almost never needed. No, we have City Hall, Zoning Boards, and a whole alphabet soup of State and Federal agencies to guide them towards a better future. Kicking and screaming if necessary.

Everything those agencies do is backup up with guns.

Even if true, that matters not a damn. I've been audited by the IRS. Go with the guns, it's less traumatic.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

^^Supporter of TYRANNY.

Common sense in this case. Laws make the place livable.

And really, stop being childish and thinking you can do whatever you want. It isn't true.

Some laws do. Most don't. The ones against raping, robbing and killing make it livable. The rest is oppression.

You are incorrect but your fetish for Ayn Rand is noted.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

.

The PC Police are very concerned with "the law" when it suits them.

Funny, I don't see them standing up for "the law" when it comes to illegal immigration.

.

The PC people are your side. We deal in reality.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

He thinks that freedom is forcing people under the threat of guns to do what he believes they should do. It's preposterous.

We do that here, at times, but that's no freedom eh? True freedom is Anarchy. I'm a fan of that either. Tell us, why are there limits on Free Speech? Doesn't that go against the Constitution?

Freedom is the right to make your own choices, it is not the right to make other people's choices for them

And there are appropriate and Constitutional limits to one’s right to make his own choices – if one chooses to yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater he’ll be arrested, and cannot make a First Amendment right to free expression claim as part of his defense.

The same is true of public accommodations laws, limiting the right one has to choose to jeopardize his local market and all interrelated markets throughout the Nation. Public accommodations laws are no different than any other regulatory measure, where such measures limit the business owner’s right to choose to abuse his employees, to pollute the local waterways, or to sell defective and dangerous products to his customers.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Dig deeper, nutters! The world is passing you by. Gay Americans will have equal rights. You cannot stop the train of progress. And this ****** is moving faster than most.

I'd love for a nutter to shock me and land on the right side of an issue for a change.