Shekels

[Shusha]

An interesting view on identity: The real 'invented' people

Leave al Jazeerah propaganda to their Holocaust denial.

Let's see if you can dig a "Palestinian" coin from the ground.
Was there ever such a currency?

I dunno, lemme look around here in Appalachia and see if I can find some old "Cherokee coins".

 

[Coyote]

I agree with you on the national identity aspect, but national identity and identifying as a people, while they often overlap, aren’t the same, and many peoples, identify as peoples, but don’t ever seek a national identity.

Sure. This is how it is turning out so far with the First Nations Peoples of Canada. Some have achieved a significant self-determination, and identify as Nations, without necessarily removing themselves entirely from Canada. That may change in the future.

But this is why I suggest that possibly having some sort of alignment or federation with Jordan might be a better solution. It doesn't remove the right to self-determination for the Arab Palestinians, should they seek it. But it removes the opposition against Jews as a raison d'etre.

I agree with what you are saying regarding Jordan. A good bit of the Palestinian National identity developed in opposition to the State of Israel.

Exactly. So the question then, is how to move them away from that and into a centered national pride on their own. Ideas?

I don’t know....

They need new leadership.
A shift from competing to cooperative goals.
A shift from a focus on attacking Israel first to a goal of taking care of our people first.

But here is an interesting thought, and it applies to Israel as well.

War and existential threats create a unity among diverse factions. Israel has domestic political cultural fissures (from inception)within that go right to the heart of what kind of nation Israel should be. These are quiet because of the larger threats to be dealt with.

The Palestinians base much of their identity on opposition to Israel and in response to what they see as great wrongs done to them. There is a political elite heavily vested in this identity over any idea that could rise out of peace.

I see two entities with an identity born out of conflict, injustice, and persecution. One has moved forward, from a position of greater strength, to create a sustainable nation (but, the question occurs...if conflict ceases, what will happen with it’s internal fissures? How much Israeli identity is invested in a David and Goliath conflict)?

The Palestinians are still completely mired in the politics of conflict, with no real long term vision. So the question I have to wonder about is why? Why were the jews able to realize a sustainable cooperative vision and the Palestinians not?

I think in part, the Palestinians, as a people are too new and limited in their cultural identity to find purpose conflict and injustice. They also are widely separated, in their own diaspora, which can fragment cultural identity.

But I think there is something else to consider. Immigration.

Immigration brought western democratic ideas to an area where it did not exist before, and with that ideas on how to build a nation from the ground up. Immigration also brought with an excitement to succeed at what many might succeed at the impossible. It brought many of the best Jewish minds from around the world, who had fled the Holocaust, to add their skills. I can’t help but wonder if that did not make a difference? A means of escaping the tribalism?

Going back to the Palestinians and possible solutions, may be we should look at the diaspora for skills needed for nation building? Palestinian immigrants around the world have formed thriving successful communities, engaged in local and national politics, etc. Maybe they should be thinking on how to give back? Build a national identity independent of conflict?

 

[Pogo]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

 

[Coyote]

An interesting view on identity: The real 'invented' people

Leave al Jazeerah propaganda to their Holocaust denial.

Let's see if you can dig a "Palestinian" coin from the ground.
Was there ever such a currency?

I dunno, lemme look around here in Appalachia and see if I can find some old "Cherokee coins".

Peoples that have no coins.

Cahto
Pawnee
Ainu

There are plenty.

 

[Coyote]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

Ah well, maybe I just have more faith in humanity than you do. Shrug.

I understand the feeling that Palestinians are "fake". I understand the claims that Arab Palestinian identity was invented, specifically as a reaction to Jewish self-determination. That is abundantly clear from Corey's video I posted. They say so themselves.

I basically just said to "send them to another place" -- Jordan -- or at least incorporate them into Jordan. Other posters are just more blunt about it than I am. But think about it. If self-determination is "off the table" for the Arab Palestinians, because they just aren't invested in achieving it, then where should they be incorporated? In the place where they share a culture, language and religious faith? Or in a place where they oppose the culture, language and religious faith?

You said send them to another place or give their territory to another nationality? I strongly disagree with the former. People are tied to place. Just because it is inconvenient to the controlling powers does not mean they should be dispossessed. Ability or lack there of to realize self determination is not a reason for mass expulsions which could end up destroying their cultural identity.

I absolutely disagree. It is a long the same lines as saying send all the Jewish settlers back to Israel proper where they share a common culture, language and faith and give the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

You said send them to another place or give their territory to another nationality? I strongly disagree with the former. People are tied to place. Just because it is inconvenient to the controlling powers does not mean they should be dispossessed. Ability or lack there of to realize self determination is not a reason for mass expulsions which could end up destroying their cultural identity.

I absolutely disagree. It is a long the same lines as saying send all the Jewish settlers back to Israel proper where they share a common culture, language and faith and give the occupied territories to the Palestinians.

Well, I was suggesting ceding territory to another nation.

And also let's not minimize the security threat by labeling it an "inconvenience to the controlling powers".

I'm not convinced anyone is suggesting mass expulsions, at least not on Israel's side. (Abbas and the Arabs certainly are suggesting such a thing, which I agree is unconscionable.) I believe some are suggesting expulsion of those who are security threats, and I don't see that as necessarily problematic.

But, rather, if we consider the problem as being the need to separate these two groups, there is some possibility that people will have to be uprooted. Would voluntary relocation be an acceptable solution?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

 

[Pogo]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese. It doesn't depend on having a letter in your native alphabet, nor is anyone limited to that alphabet.

Anyway my thrust was more at his sweeping generalization.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese.

Good for you! I've had Gentile co-workers who couldn't pronounce Chanukah for the life of them.

 

[Pogo]

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese.

Good for you! I've had Gentile co-workers who couldn't pronounce Chanukah for the life of them.

I think I could. I've got some, shall we say training in Arabic. But German has a similar guttural, as does Dutch.

It doesn't require an alphabet, all it requires is listening.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese. It doesn't depend on having a letter in your native alphabet, nor is anyone limited to that alphabet.

Anyway my thrust was more at his sweeping generalization.

But I think rylah's point is deeper. "Palestine" isn't an Arabic name because there isn't even a letter P in their alphabet. It's a Roman name. The Romans forced the Jews out of Judea, and they renamed the country Palestine after the Jews' bitterest enemies--the Philistines. The Romans tried to erase Jewish history, and now the so-called Palestinians are trying to do the same thing today.

 

[Pogo]

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese. It doesn't depend on having a letter in your native alphabet, nor is anyone limited to that alphabet.

Anyway my thrust was more at his sweeping generalization.

But I think rylah's point is deeper. "Palestine" isn't an Arabic name because there isn't even a letter P in their alphabet. It's a Roman name. The Romans forced the Jews out of Judea, and they renamed the country Palestine after the Jews' bitterest enemies--the Philistines. The Romans tried to erase Jewish history, and now the so-called Palestinians are trying to do the same thing today.

If we're saying that "Palestine" is an English word, then his gripe is that "most Arabs" --- which is not the same as "Arabic speakers" but that's a technicality --- cannot pronounce an English name. Which is still wrong. Again, English does not have letters and sounds in other languages, that doesn't mean we can't just go ahead and learn them just as we learned our own sounds. NOR does it mean that "most Arabs", whatever language they're speaking, don't have their own cognate name.

The assertion was just silly on its face, so I kicked it.

Sure, Palestine isn't an Arabic name. "Mississippi" isn't an English name but that doesn't prevent people from living there or by that river and pronouncing it whenever they need to.

 

[rylah]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

What does it mean in Hebrew?

 

[Pogo]

I see this over and over and over here. A constant and unchanging effort to to disposes the Palestinian people of their identity, to marginalize and minimize that identity in every possible. The real irony is this often comes from those who themselves fight against the same efforts directed against Jews in the Middle East. The condemn it on one hand and then turn around and use the same arguments against the Palestinians.

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

 

[rylah]

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

What does it mean in Hebrew?

The word 'Palestinian' in Hebrew means an 'invader'.

 

[Coyote]

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese. It doesn't depend on having a letter in your native alphabet, nor is anyone limited to that alphabet.

Anyway my thrust was more at his sweeping generalization.

But I think rylah's point is deeper. "Palestine" isn't an Arabic name because there isn't even a letter P in their alphabet. It's a Roman name. The Romans forced the Jews out of Judea, and they renamed the country Palestine after the Jews' bitterest enemies--the Philistines. The Romans tried to erase Jewish history, and now the so-called Palestinians are trying to do the same thing today.

The Palestinians didn’t start out Arabic...their presence in the region preceded the Muslim conquest. I don’t understand why the argument matters other than to serve to erase a people.

 

[rylah]

Well, there is a very great difference between arguing that Jews have no unique culture and arguing that Arabs in Palestine have no unique culture. Its just a matter of fact. There is also a difference between arguing against an existing nationality and one which has not yet fully formed.

Those of us on Team Israel really do ask: Are the Arab Palestinians cohesive enough to create a nationality? And I think its a legitimate question. (It would be a ridiculous question to ask of the Jewish people, the answer is obvious).

I don't think its a matter of trying to dispossess or marginalize them, not the way its directed at the Jewish people. Its not the same. For a hundred years, Israel has been trying to share the territory in a two-state solution. It hasn't worked out. Sooner or later, you really have to ask why.

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

 

[Pogo]

I don’t agree, look at what people are saying as critically as you look at what they say about Jews. There are a good many views who feel Palestinians are fake, and because of that they have no collective rights of place (send them to another Arab country).

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

From a simple fact - there's no letter 'P' in Arabic.
you either says 'Pepsi' or 'Bebsi', but only one is proper.

By the way, the term 'Palestinian' has meaning only in Hebrew,
therefore not only most Arabs can't pronounce it, they neither know what it says.

You never answered how you get to pronounce what "most Arabs can't pronounce" so add this to your list:

HOW does the absence of a letter in one's native alphabet prevent one from uttering it?

Want to hear me render the name of João Gilberto? Or the Arabic term for "shit"? Or the last name of Johann Sebastian Bach?

Well I surely can't answer what You've not asked...

But that's simple - when your language lacks letters, you practice only a set amount of sounds.
Speech muscles can't repeat what they've never learned.

So goes with ears, without practice one cannot even differentiate between letters that lack definition in one's mother language. You may think you pronounce an Arabic 'h', but you neither have the muscles nor ears to know.

However you're discussing people claiming to live in a place supposedly for "thousands years",
yet they're incapable of pronouncing the name of the place.

A problem of a much bigger magnitude than learning to say 'sh*t' in Indonesian,
don't you think?

Actually I did ask, several hours ago, and you ignored it.

But yes it is simple, the fact is whatever language you learn in infancy IN NO WAY prevents you from learning other languages, or sounds, or simple names, that are not a part of that native language. That's just a fact. Not to mention the other fact that you're in no position to declare what "most Arabs can't pronounce" unless, as I said originally, you're running out between posts to survey all the Arabs in the world and compiling stats to come up with a "most".

Not to mention that "an Arab" is not the same thing as "a native Arabic speaker".

 

[rylah]

You derail every thread with this none sense.

Still most Arabs can't even pronounce the word "Palestinian",
this is not a feeling or a suggestion, that's just a plain fact.

Whence do you get this nonsense that "most Arabs can't pronounce (whatever)"?

What, did you just run out between posts with a tape recorder interviewing "all Arabs" and compile stats?
And when did you become the arbiter of "correct" Arabic pronunciation?

Just like there is no letter corresponding to the "kh" sound in the English alphabet, although there is a letter "khet" in Hebrew, in the same way there is no letter P in Arabic. This is why the Roman city in the West Bank called Neapolis became Nablus in Arabic. (It was originally called Shekhem by the Israelites.) Arabs don't call the land Palestine because they can't pronounce that name. I believe they call it Falistin. rylah is basically joking around and saying that the so-called Palestinians can't even pronounce the name of their own country. It would be like Jews calling our holiday Hanukkah instead of Chanukah because we can't pronounce the name of our very own festival.

Bullshit. My mother tongue is English but that doesn't somehow "prevent" me from pronouncing the kh sound of Arabic, the ü in German, the ñ in Spanish, the zh sound in French, or the nasals in Portuguese. It doesn't depend on having a letter in your native alphabet, nor is anyone limited to that alphabet.

Anyway my thrust was more at his sweeping generalization.

But I think rylah's point is deeper. "Palestine" isn't an Arabic name because there isn't even a letter P in their alphabet. It's a Roman name. The Romans forced the Jews out of Judea, and they renamed the country Palestine after the Jews' bitterest enemies--the Philistines. The Romans tried to erase Jewish history, and now the so-called Palestinians are trying to do the same thing today.

The Palestinians didn’t start out Arabic...their presence in the region preceded the Muslim conquest. I don’t understand why the argument matters other than to serve to erase a people.

It matters because the lies you knowingly repeat about them living here for "thousands of years" have to be confronted with truth.

And the fact remains - they demand that which they can't even pronounce.

How come after "thousands of years" of the alleged "Palestinians", instead of using the opportunity to present a similar example of their currency, you rather reserve to derailing a thread about the ancient Israeli Shekel?

Coincidence?