Settlements

[Sixties Fan]

Just an example of Israeli justice for those who stone Arabs:

Israeli Jew From Outlawed Group Is Convicted of Insulting Islam

 

[Sixties Fan]

Informative article:

The ‘Palestinian’ Art of Stone -Throwing. - Jews Down Under

 

[teddyearp]

Rock throwing is wrong. No matter who does it, or how often. 'Who started it' is exactly why this mess may never get cleaned up.

 

[abi]

And that is EXACTLY the problem with such concepts as "rights of return" or for that matter reparations. How far do you go back? It's arbitrary.

My feeling is it only applies as a right - to those directly affected.

International law is clear. Look it up. I have posted it, but you keep going. It's one generation and you people are waiting for another generation to die off.

Merry Xmas indeed.

 

[teddyearp]

My, my, my abi. It must be just terrible to live life as full of hate as you are.

Just terrible.

 

[Coyote]

In a manner of speaking no - I'm not. It causes damage, injury, even death - it should be a criminal offense.

On the other hand:

If you throw rocks and are a Palestinian you get shot.
If you throw rocks and are a Jew you do not.

Is every Palestinian who is throwing rocks, no matter what size, being shot? Or does it depend on the circumstances ?

Has any Jewish kid been shot?

Please bring the level of the conversation up.

I have. What brings it DOWN is ignoring the inequities in how the penalties are applied.

AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?

Arabs are the ones who have stoned Jews, any size of rocks, in order to harm or kill, as you put it.
They do it to intimidate Jews and make them move from their own land.
Have Jews been stoning Arabs? Since which year, and yes some have been doing so. But why, exactly compared to the reason given by the Arabs who do it on a daily basis, and do since how long?

Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?

"They do it to intimidate the Jews and make them move from their own land...." did it occur to you that the Jewish settlers do it to intimidate the Palestinians and make them move from their own land?

In fact - Jewish settlers stoning Palestinians in the contest settlement areas IS a big problem. At times Palestinian school kids need to be escorted by soldiers past settlements to protect them. Kind of sounds like a "daily basis" to me. How about you?

It's not just the Jews who get hurt from thrown stones. So why the double standard in acknowledging it and in how it's handled?

In a separate incident on Thursday night, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl was hospitalised after settlers threw stones at her family's car in the same area. The stones and glass hit her face, leaving her with multiple injuries.​

Has any Jewish kid or adult been shot? By the Arabs?
The Arabs know better than to do that, it would take away the victim designation they have achieved since the 1970s, after they lost the 1973 war.

I wasn't actually thinking of that, but I guarantee if an Arab shot a Jewish stone thrower there would be hell to pay. No, I was talking about Israeli's. Have they shot any of the Jewish rock throwers?

What is all of these for? Why attack children who are hiking? What was the crime?

Arabs Try To Lynch Israeli Children Taking Hike To Celebrate Bar-Mitzvah

Exactly. Why? Why are kids attacked? Why do school kids needed to be escorted by soldiers? None of this is ok. Shouldn't it be treated the same?

Why are the Arabs being taught to attack any Jews walking, talking, driving, etc since the Oslo Accords, when those Accords were signed in order to have the opposite effect. The end of incitement against the Jews and negotiate a peace agreement and the creation of an Arab State next to Israel?

Why are settlers taught to attack Palestinians walking, driving...going to school? Hatred is learned and it's up to the adults to combat it. On all sides.

Is it really the Jewish settlements? All of them? Why are they illegal and the Arab ones which the EU and the PA continues to attempt to build on Area C are not?

I know you may be just about the expanding of settlements, as the Arabs say.
But no settlement is expanding beyond its designated area, as agreed by the Oslo Accords.

So, once again......Why are the Arabs stoning Jews? In Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem........

Why are the Jews stoning Arabs?

Why the double standard in acknowledging that both sides are guilty of this but the perpetrators are treated very differently?

Sorry, but you truly have not answered my questions.

As I have pointed out, there is a daily stoning of Jews, walking or in their cars in Judea and Samaria.

Jews attacking Arabs walking or in cars is a very rare occurrence.

I already pointed out that NO, it is NOT a "rare occurrence" it is a frequent occurrence. Look it up. You are trying to marginalize it.

Also, some Jews would not need to feel they want to attack Arabs with stones if the Arabs had not started the custom.

Yes, stoning does go back to even before David and Goliath, but when were Jews stoning Arabs or anyone else for being on their land, since the Muslim conquest?

Again - it has been a custom in the region from before the Arabs were there. They all do it. You act like throwing rocks is a new thing. It isn't.

How many Jews are stoning Hashemite Arabs for that clan having settled on Jewish land since 1925?

How many Jews are stoning Arabs in Gaza who have taken over the land where they lived until 2005? Or were they stoning Arabs after the 1920 expulsion from their homes in 1920?

Are records kept? Is this relevent or merely an attempt to justify a double standard? Come on....is it so hard just to say it's throwing stones is wrong regardless who does it?

You question double standards when it comes to the very few Jews who have done this kind of act for the past 100 years, compared to the hundreds of Arabs who are motivated on a daily basis to attack Jews with stones, knives, cars, and more, etc. for those same 100 years.

Even if we cut it down to the past 10 years, the number of Jews attacking Arabs with stones would pale in comparison with the number of Arabs who have been doing the same for the same period of time.

Some Jews mostly throw rocks at Arabs out of reaction to Arabs throwing stones at Jews, which is never ending.

I am trying to point out that the reason for Jews throwing stones at Arabs is totally different from Arabs doing it against Jews.

Some Jews simply got fed up with Arabs throwing rocks for all of these years and are taking it under their own resolve to do the same thing.

Arabs, on the contrary, are taught at home, in schools, in their media to do exactly that to Jews, anytime, all the time.

There is no double standard of any kind between the two.

The reason for Jewish settlers to throw stones at Palestinians is the same - get off my land. Intimidation. You have no right to be here. I'm pissed. I'm a kid and stones give me a powerful means of expressing my anger. You name it. The reason's aren't so different. But the penalties are.

Do you need further information about why some Jews have decided they have had enough and are doing the same to Arabs?

Two wrongs make a right? He started it yada yada yada (Samson was Jewish wasn't he?). Keep on going back in time as if that matters.

Do you truly believe that if a Jew harms or kills an Arab with rocks, that they will end up set free and not convicted for it?

What I truly believe is the penalties are very different. For example house arrest for a Jewish kid vs being taken from his family and incarcerated for a Palestinian kid. Oh...and thus far only Palestinians seem to get shot for it.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Is every Palestinian who is throwing rocks, no matter what size, being shot? Or does it depend on the circumstances ?

Has any Jewish kid been shot?

Please bring the level of the conversation up.

I have. What brings it DOWN is ignoring the inequities in how the penalties are applied.

AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?

Arabs are the ones who have stoned Jews, any size of rocks, in order to harm or kill, as you put it.
They do it to intimidate Jews and make them move from their own land.
Have Jews been stoning Arabs? Since which year, and yes some have been doing so. But why, exactly compared to the reason given by the Arabs who do it on a daily basis, and do since how long?

Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?

"They do it to intimidate the Jews and make them move from their own land...." did it occur to you that the Jewish settlers do it to intimidate the Palestinians and make them move from their own land?

In fact - Jewish settlers stoning Palestinians in the contest settlement areas IS a big problem. At times Palestinian school kids need to be escorted by soldiers past settlements to protect them. Kind of sounds like a "daily basis" to me. How about you?

It's not just the Jews who get hurt from thrown stones. So why the double standard in acknowledging it and in how it's handled?

In a separate incident on Thursday night, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl was hospitalised after settlers threw stones at her family's car in the same area. The stones and glass hit her face, leaving her with multiple injuries.​

Has any Jewish kid or adult been shot? By the Arabs?
The Arabs know better than to do that, it would take away the victim designation they have achieved since the 1970s, after they lost the 1973 war.

I wasn't actually thinking of that, but I guarantee if an Arab shot a Jewish stone thrower there would be hell to pay. No, I was talking about Israeli's. Have they shot any of the Jewish rock throwers?

What is all of these for? Why attack children who are hiking? What was the crime?

Arabs Try To Lynch Israeli Children Taking Hike To Celebrate Bar-Mitzvah

Exactly. Why? Why are kids attacked? Why do school kids needed to be escorted by soldiers? None of this is ok. Shouldn't it be treated the same?

Why are the Arabs being taught to attack any Jews walking, talking, driving, etc since the Oslo Accords, when those Accords were signed in order to have the opposite effect. The end of incitement against the Jews and negotiate a peace agreement and the creation of an Arab State next to Israel?

Why are settlers taught to attack Palestinians walking, driving...going to school? Hatred is learned and it's up to the adults to combat it. On all sides.

Is it really the Jewish settlements? All of them? Why are they illegal and the Arab ones which the EU and the PA continues to attempt to build on Area C are not?

I know you may be just about the expanding of settlements, as the Arabs say.
But no settlement is expanding beyond its designated area, as agreed by the Oslo Accords.

So, once again......Why are the Arabs stoning Jews? In Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem........

Why are the Jews stoning Arabs?

Why the double standard in acknowledging that both sides are guilty of this but the perpetrators are treated very differently?

Sorry, but you truly have not answered my questions.

As I have pointed out, there is a daily stoning of Jews, walking or in their cars in Judea and Samaria.

Jews attacking Arabs walking or in cars is a very rare occurrence.

I already pointed out that NO, it is NOT a "rare occurrence" it is a frequent occurrence. Look it up. You are trying to marginalize it.

Also, some Jews would not need to feel they want to attack Arabs with stones if the Arabs had not started the custom.

Yes, stoning does go back to even before David and Goliath, but when were Jews stoning Arabs or anyone else for being on their land, since the Muslim conquest?

Again - it has been a custom in the region from before the Arabs were there. They all do it. You act like throwing rocks is a new thing. It isn't.

How many Jews are stoning Hashemite Arabs for that clan having settled on Jewish land since 1925?

How many Jews are stoning Arabs in Gaza who have taken over the land where they lived until 2005? Or were they stoning Arabs after the 1920 expulsion from their homes in 1920?

Are records kept? Is this relevent or merely an attempt to justify a double standard? Come on....is it so hard just to say it's throwing stones is wrong regardless who does it?

You question double standards when it comes to the very few Jews who have done this kind of act for the past 100 years, compared to the hundreds of Arabs who are motivated on a daily basis to attack Jews with stones, knives, cars, and more, etc. for those same 100 years.

Even if we cut it down to the past 10 years, the number of Jews attacking Arabs with stones would pale in comparison with the number of Arabs who have been doing the same for the same period of time.

Some Jews mostly throw rocks at Arabs out of reaction to Arabs throwing stones at Jews, which is never ending.

I am trying to point out that the reason for Jews throwing stones at Arabs is totally different from Arabs doing it against Jews.

Some Jews simply got fed up with Arabs throwing rocks for all of these years and are taking it under their own resolve to do the same thing.

Arabs, on the contrary, are taught at home, in schools, in their media to do exactly that to Jews, anytime, all the time.

There is no double standard of any kind between the two.

The reason for Jewish settlers to throw stones at Palestinians is the same - get off my land. Intimidation. You have no right to be here. I'm pissed. I'm a kid and stones give me a powerful means of expressing my anger. You name it. The reason's aren't so different. But the penalties are.

Do you need further information about why some Jews have decided they have had enough and are doing the same to Arabs?

Two wrongs make a right? He started it yada yada yada (Samson was Jewish wasn't he?). Keep on going back in time as if that matters.

Do you truly believe that if a Jew harms or kills an Arab with rocks, that they will end up set free and not convicted for it?

What I truly believe is the penalties are very different. For example house arrest for a Jewish kid vs being taken from his family and incarcerated for a Palestinian kid. Oh...and thus far only Palestinians seem to get shot for it.

I tried....

I am done.

Have a nice thread.

 

[Coyote]

In a manner of speaking no - I'm not. It causes damage, injury, even death - it should be a criminal offense.

On the other hand:

If you throw rocks and are a Palestinian you get shot.
If you throw rocks and are a Jew you do not.

Is every Palestinian who is throwing rocks, no matter what size, being shot? Or does it depend on the circumstances ?

Has any Jewish kid been shot?

Please bring the level of the conversation up.

I have. What brings it DOWN is ignoring the inequities in how the penalties are applied.

AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?

Arabs are the ones who have stoned Jews, any size of rocks, in order to harm or kill, as you put it.
They do it to intimidate Jews and make them move from their own land.
Have Jews been stoning Arabs? Since which year, and yes some have been doing so. But why, exactly compared to the reason given by the Arabs who do it on a daily basis, and do since how long?

Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?

Irrelevant.

It's not just the Jews who get hurt from thrown stones. So why the double standard in acknowledging it and in how it's handled?

In a separate incident on Thursday night, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl was hospitalised after settlers threw stones at her family's car in the same area. The stones and glass hit her face, leaving her with multiple injuries.​

Exactly. Why? Why are kids attacked?

alaraby.co.uk
Nice source. Good job.

So you can't refute it? You can't address a single point, only criticize one source?

 

[Shusha]

If you throw rocks and are a Palestinian you get shot.
If you throw rocks and are a Jew you do not.

I don't think any evidence has been presented to validate this claim. I suspect you are correct -- but I also suspect there are all sorts of contextual circumstances which may make the two rather incomparable. There are nearly 5000 rock-throwing incidents by Palestinians annually. In only a small fraction lethal force used. It seems to me, therefore, that we should be looking at what was different in those specific cases rather than making blanket statements about ethnicity as the reason why someone gets shot.

 

[admonit]

Is every Palestinian who is throwing rocks, no matter what size, being shot? Or does it depend on the circumstances ?

Has any Jewish kid been shot?

Please bring the level of the conversation up.

I have. What brings it DOWN is ignoring the inequities in how the penalties are applied.

AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?

Arabs are the ones who have stoned Jews, any size of rocks, in order to harm or kill, as you put it.
They do it to intimidate Jews and make them move from their own land.
Have Jews been stoning Arabs? Since which year, and yes some have been doing so. But why, exactly compared to the reason given by the Arabs who do it on a daily basis, and do since how long?

Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?

Irrelevant.

It's not just the Jews who get hurt from thrown stones. So why the double standard in acknowledging it and in how it's handled?

In a separate incident on Thursday night, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl was hospitalised after settlers threw stones at her family's car in the same area. The stones and glass hit her face, leaving her with multiple injuries.​

Exactly. Why? Why are kids attacked?

alaraby.co.uk
Nice source. Good job.

So you can't refute it? You can't address a single point, only criticize one source?

What point? This one?
"Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?"
"the little dude", king David, was a warrior and used a stone in a fight with another warrior. It has nothing to do with throwing rocks at civilian cars.
Or may be this one?
"AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?"
No one was shot just for throwing rocks. Soldiers open live fire only if there is an immediate threat.
From your link:
"Forces responded to the immediate threat and fired toward one of the attackers"
Throwing rocks at vehicles rushing along a road is a life threatening action. Is it clear?

 

[Coyote]

Has any Jewish kid been shot?

Please bring the level of the conversation up.

I have. What brings it DOWN is ignoring the inequities in how the penalties are applied.

AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?

Arabs are the ones who have stoned Jews, any size of rocks, in order to harm or kill, as you put it.
They do it to intimidate Jews and make them move from their own land.
Have Jews been stoning Arabs? Since which year, and yes some have been doing so. But why, exactly compared to the reason given by the Arabs who do it on a daily basis, and do since how long?

Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?

Irrelevant.

It's not just the Jews who get hurt from thrown stones. So why the double standard in acknowledging it and in how it's handled?

In a separate incident on Thursday night, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl was hospitalised after settlers threw stones at her family's car in the same area. The stones and glass hit her face, leaving her with multiple injuries.​

Exactly. Why? Why are kids attacked?

alaraby.co.uk
Nice source. Good job.

So you can't refute it? You can't address a single point, only criticize one source?

What point? This one?
"Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?"
"the little dude", king David, was a warrior and used a stone in a fight with another warrior. It has nothing to do with throwing rocks at civilian cars.
Or may be this one?
"AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?"
No one was shot just for throwing rocks. Soldiers open live fire only if there is an immediate threat.
From your link:
"Forces responded to the immediate threat and fired toward one of the attackers"
Throwing rocks at vehicles rushting along a road is a life threatening action. Is it clear?

So have any Jewish kids been shot for throwing stones at cars? Or is it reserved for Palestinian kids?

 

[Coyote]

If you throw rocks and are a Palestinian you get shot.
If you throw rocks and are a Jew you do not.

I don't think any evidence has been presented to validate this claim. I suspect you are correct -- but I also suspect there are all sorts of contextual circumstances which may make the two rather incomparable. There are nearly 5000 rock-throwing incidents by Palestinians annually. In only a small fraction lethal force used. It seems to me, therefore, that we should be looking at what was different in those specific cases rather than making blanket statements about ethnicity as the reason why someone gets shot.

There is evidence to show a disparity in how they are penalized. For example house arrest vs jail. Palestinian youths are often pressured to plea bargain as well, not so with others.

Good points about looking at specific cases, not sure how to find that data in an unbiased form though.

 

[teddyearp]

Please bring the level of the conversation up.

I have. What brings it DOWN is ignoring the inequities in how the penalties are applied.

AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?

Arabs are the ones who have stoned Jews, any size of rocks, in order to harm or kill, as you put it.
They do it to intimidate Jews and make them move from their own land.
Have Jews been stoning Arabs? Since which year, and yes some have been doing so. But why, exactly compared to the reason given by the Arabs who do it on a daily basis, and do since how long?

Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?

Irrelevant.

It's not just the Jews who get hurt from thrown stones. So why the double standard in acknowledging it and in how it's handled?

In a separate incident on Thursday night, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl was hospitalised after settlers threw stones at her family's car in the same area. The stones and glass hit her face, leaving her with multiple injuries.​

Exactly. Why? Why are kids attacked?

alaraby.co.uk
Nice source. Good job.

So you can't refute it? You can't address a single point, only criticize one source?

What point? This one?
"Throwing stones in a land full of stones is a common and culturally ingrained practice of all the people living there going back to David and Goliath and before...you know, the story of the little dude that killed the giant dude with a slingshot and a stone...?"
"the little dude", king David, was a warrior and used a stone in a fight with another warrior. It has nothing to do with throwing rocks at civilian cars.
Or may be this one?
"AGAIN - have any Jewish kids been SHOT for throwing rocks?"
No one was shot just for throwing rocks. Soldiers open live fire only if there is an immediate threat.
From your link:
"Forces responded to the immediate threat and fired toward one of the attackers"
Throwing rocks at vehicles rushting along a road is a life threatening action. Is it clear?

So have any Jewish kids been shot for throwing stones at cars? Or is it reserved for Palestinian kids?

Have any Jewish kids thrown stones at cars?

 

[abi]

There is evidence to show a disparity in how they are penalized. For example house arrest vs jail. Palestinian youths are often pressured to plea bargain as well, not so with others.

Good points about looking at specific cases, not sure how to find that data in an unbiased form though.

They don't appear to exist and for obvious reasons. The supremacist justice (just-us) system of the zionist regime has never been close to fair.

This goes way beyond kids throwing stones.

The deadly arson attack in the West Bank village of Duma last week may have shocked mainstream Israelis, but international organizations and human rights groups say it fits a pattern of unchecked violence against Palestinian civilians and impunity for the settlers who perpetrate it.
read more: Israel’s dismal record of arresting and convicting Jewish terrorists

I chose a Jewish source on purpose.

 

[teddyearp]

You mean an anti-israeli source on purpose. And your post had me going, "what?". An attack last week? Then I saw the article is almost three years old.

 

[Shusha]

If you throw rocks and are a Palestinian you get shot.
If you throw rocks and are a Jew you do not.

I don't think any evidence has been presented to validate this claim. I suspect you are correct -- but I also suspect there are all sorts of contextual circumstances which may make the two rather incomparable. There are nearly 5000 rock-throwing incidents by Palestinians annually. In only a small fraction lethal force used. It seems to me, therefore, that we should be looking at what was different in those specific cases rather than making blanket statements about ethnicity as the reason why someone gets shot.

There is evidence to show a disparity in how they are penalized. For example house arrest vs jail. Palestinian youths are often pressured to plea bargain as well, not so with others.

Good points about looking at specific cases, not sure how to find that data in an unbiased form though.

Yeah. Finding good stats on this is nearly impossible.

 

[abi]

Yeah. Finding good stats on this is nearly impossible.

Post 194... just a few posts up.

 

[Shusha]

Yeah. Finding good stats on this is nearly impossible.

Post 194... just a few posts up.

Paywalled.

 

[abi]

Paywalled.

There is plenty there to go on. I will paste the whole article if you like. That graphic itself is telling.

 

[flacaltenn]

Topic is the settlements. -- Not young David and his slingshot, not rock throwing, not most of what's on the last several pages. Either respond to the OP or move on..