SCotUS hears case on "ghost guns"

[M14 Shooter]

Right now is a good time to note a related point.
One of the favorite "door slamming" arguments of the gun enthusiast crowd is to say, "We should just enforce the laws we have!"

Yeah, that's hooey.
Every gun control law should be fought in the courts - tooth, fang, and claw.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah, that's hooey.
Every gun control law should be fought in the courts - tooth, fang, and claw.

Well, I like your honesty.

 

[Missourian]

Richardson Philippine Guerilla Gun

The Richardson Industries Model 5, marketed as the Philippine Guerilla Gun, was an American single-shot shotgun that was designed by Iliff Richardson. Iliff D. Richardson opened his own manufacturing corporation, Richardson Industries in 1946 to manufacture this gun. It was very cheap and cost...

guns.fandom.com

Give me a trip to the hardware store and only the equipment I have in my garage and in less than two hours I'll make one functional from scratch.



Give me eight hours, I'll do it all with hand tools and it will look as good as a Remington Wingmaster right down to the Monte Carlo stock, checkering and bead sight.




No metal lathe or 3D printing required.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Richardson Philippine Guerilla Gun

The Richardson Industries Model 5, marketed as the Philippine Guerilla Gun, was an American single-shot shotgun that was designed by Iliff Richardson. Iliff D. Richardson opened his own manufacturing corporation, Richardson Industries in 1946 to manufacture this gun. It was very cheap and cost...

guns.fandom.com

Give me a trip to the hardware store and only the equipment I have in my garage and in less than two hours I'll make one functional from scratch.
Give me eight hours it will look as good as good as a Remington Wingmaster right down to the cheek riser, checkering and bead sight.

The -most- asinine thing about this?

The rule applies to 'ghost gun' parts kits
The rule does not apply to an 80% lower sold on its own.

If I buy an 80% lower and a standard parts kit - as separate items - the law, as interpreted by the rule in question, does not require a background check.

See how stupid these anti-gun loons are?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Which just makes sense, as it makes the regulation less vulnerable to the "you can't make a gun out of that" argument.

 

[Missourian]

The -most- asinine thing about this?

The rule applies to 'ghost gun' parts kits
The rule does not apply to an 80% lower sold on its own.

If I buy an 80% lower and a standard parts kit - as separate items - the law, as interpreted by the rule in question, does not require a background check.

See how stupid these anti-gun loons are?

They've done something, cuz Polymer 80s are gone... And Brownells had a great one that allowed Glock Gen 3 parts with a 1911 grip angle.

https://www.guns.com/news/2017/10/14/brownells-releases-polymer80-frames

 

[Jarlaxle]

What use is the object intended for?

The objects in your post are intended to be a firearm.

Depending on the purchaser. If bought by a gunsmith, behold, a new AR reciever!

 

[M14 Shooter]

Depending on the purchaser. If bought by a gunsmith, behold, a new AR reciever!

The ATF says that needs a serial number.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Talk to you congressman - because under federal law, its legal.
And you can do anything with an unserialized gun you made yourself that to can do with a gun you brought from Cabella's

Except legally sell it.

Richardson Philippine Guerilla Gun

The Richardson Industries Model 5, marketed as the Philippine Guerilla Gun, was an American single-shot shotgun that was designed by Iliff Richardson. Iliff D. Richardson opened his own manufacturing corporation, Richardson Industries in 1946 to manufacture this gun. It was very cheap and cost...

guns.fandom.com

Give me a trip to the hardware store and only the equipment I have in my garage and in less than two hours I'll make one functional from scratch.

Give me eight hours, I'll do it all with hand tools and it will look as good as a Remington Wingmaster right down to the Monte Carlo stock, checkering and bead sight.




No metal lathe or 3D printing required.

Mad Mike Williamson made an AK-47 (select fire) using only hand tools. It works fine.

Another guy made an AK by making all the parts except the barrel out of...an old shovel. Worked fine. (Though I recall the first video comment was something like, "But isn't that how the Russians made them?")

 

[M14 Shooter]

Except legally sell it.

You can legally sell it.
What you -can't- do is create it with the -intent- to sell and then sell it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You can legally sell it.
What you -can't- do is create it with the -intent- to sell and then sell it.

So...in practice, you cannot legally sell it unless you can prove you did not commit a Thoughtcrime.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So...in practice, you cannot legally sell it unless you can prove you did not commit a Thoughtcrime.

The state has to prove you manufactured the gun with intent to sell.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The state has to prove you manufactured the gun with intent to sell.

No. In practice, you have to prove that you did not.

 

[fncceo]

A competent machinist can make this stuff in a day. What can the Supreme Court do about it?

So can an incompetent one … how else would Taurus be in business.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No. In practice, you have to prove that you did not.

Nope. State has to prove all elements of the case.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Nope. State has to prove all elements of the case.

So...do you not understand how F-troop operates?

 

[M14 Shooter]

So...do you not understand how F-troop operates?

I know how criminal prosecution works.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I know how criminal prosecution works.

In theory, or in the real world? Because in the real world, lawfare is common and F-troop loves it.

 

[Conservative from Georgia]

Case: Garland v. VanDerStok
Text of oral arguments: https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/2024/23-852_ca7d.pdf

Subject of case: The 2022 ATF interpretation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 with respect to 'ghost gun' kits -- package of parts that allow the creation of an unserialized firearms -- the ATF holds that such kits are, themselves, firearms, and if for sale, must be serialized and then sold like any other firearm, including a background check.

Most people do not understand the issue here -specifically, what a "ghost gun kit" is and how it "works".
I shall explain:

In general, with a 'ghost gun' kit, you get these, or similar, parts:

View attachment 1025246

You also get a part similar to this:

View attachment 1025247

What do you have when you put them together?

Nothing.
In fact, you --can't-- put them all together.
And so, unarguably, you do not have a firearm.
But the ATF wants to -call- it a firearm and -regulate- it like a firearm.
Even though you cannot put the parts together, and you cannot shoot anything through it.

This is an obvious case of ATF overreach, and will be struck for the same reasons as the court struck the bump-stock ban ---

Nice Supreme Court call—did your crystal ball come with a warranty?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is in essence a non-issue.

If one wishes to obtain a firearm absent a 4473 and background check, he need only engage in a face-to-face intrastate transaction.