Science Question

[CrusaderFrank]

A liter of water has a pH of 8.25. In order to drop the pH to 8.15, how much CO2 must you add to it ?

 

[rightwinger]

7

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dilution of Bases and Acids

This tool allows the calculation of the pH values of diluted bases and acids. Please insert three values, the fourth will be calculated. You can choose which value you want to leave blank. As a neutral dilution liquid (pH value 7), water is estimated.

Original pH value: 8.25
Amount of original base/acid: 3.862
Amount of added water: 1
pH value of the diluted base/acid: 8.15

Chemical Calculator: Dilution of Bases and Acids

What does the "Amount of original base/acid: 3.862" mean?

I don't understand that part. It assumes the 1 unit of water has a pH of 7 so...well, I don't know

 

[CrusaderFrank]

OK, this might be better

Dilution of Bases and Acids

This tool allows the calculation of the pH values of diluted bases and acids. Please insert three values, the fourth will be calculated. You can choose which value you want to leave blank. As a neutral dilution liquid (pH value 7), water is estimated.

Original pH value: 8.25
Amount of original base/acid: 1
Amount of added water: .259
pH value of the diluted base/acid: 8.15

To get a .1 pH drop, you have to add 7 pH water equal to about 25% the existing volume.

Hmmm, that's a lot of fresh water.

 

[rightwinger]

7

 

[CrusaderFrank]

7

No. If I'm reading it correctly, it's 25.9%

That means that in order to lower the pH of the oceans from 8.25 to 8.15 as alleged by the AGW Cult you'd have to add 25% volume of fresh water.

It's also possible that I'm totally misunderstanding this.

Maybe that nasty CO2 "acid" (the one that almost instantly disassociates on contact with water) has a far lower pH and you'd need to add much less of it...but still....that's a big volume that needs to be added

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can someone with a scientific background (that leaves Old Rocks and Abe out in the cold) please weigh in here?

 

[rightwinger]

Can someone with a scientific background (that leaves Old Rocks and Abe out in the cold) please weigh in here?

6.02 x 10 <23>

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Serious request for help from someone who knows Chemical equations.

 

[strollingbones]

honey hush i can tell you how pure you coke is....but this is beyond me.....i would just add vingear

 

[CrusaderFrank]

honey hush i can tell you how pure you coke is....but this is beyond me.....i would just add vingear

It's a high school chemistry question, well at least when I went to high school.

No one responds, especially the AGWCult, because the answer requires an amount of CO2 several orders of magnitude above what's currently produced

"The hydration equilibrium constant at 25°C is called Kh, which in the case of carbonic acid is [H2CO3]/[CO2] &#8776; 1.7×10&#8722;3 in pure water[3] and &#8776; 1.2×10&#8722;3 in seawater.[4] Hence, the majority of the carbon dioxide is not converted into carbonic acid, remaining as CO2 molecules."

Carbonic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See, there's just no conceivable way that manmade CO2 is turning the oceans acidic as alleged by the AGWCult. It baffles me that the Warmers haven't been kicked to the curb by real scientists that work alongside them.

I'm not a scientist. I'm a real estate analyst and none of the "theories" put forth by the AGWCult ever make the least bit of sense.

So, again, how does CO2 turn the oceans acidic?

 

[strollingbones]

i do believe its the acid fall out...acid rain

the oceans are living things not just pools of water.....the acid rain is killing a lot of things in the sea and on land...we have watched the trees dying of a combo of the acid rain which weakens the trees and allows insects to deliver the killing blow....

Extreme Ice Survey | Art meets science.

as stewards of the earth we should always err on the side of caution.....

real estate analysis....is that fancy calling for an appraiser?

 

[Old Rocks]

honey hush i can tell you how pure you coke is....but this is beyond me.....i would just add vingear

It's a high school chemistry question, well at least when I went to high school.

No one responds, especially the AGWCult, because the answer requires an amount of CO2 several orders of magnitude above what's currently produced

"The hydration equilibrium constant at 25°C is called Kh, which in the case of carbonic acid is [H2CO3]/[CO2] &#8776; 1.7×10&#8722;3 in pure water[3] and &#8776; 1.2×10&#8722;3 in seawater.[4] Hence, the majority of the carbon dioxide is not converted into carbonic acid, remaining as CO2 molecules."

Carbonic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See, there's just no conceivable way that manmade CO2 is turning the oceans acidic as alleged by the AGWCult. It baffles me that the Warmers haven't been kicked to the curb by real scientists that work alongside them.

I'm not a scientist. I'm a real estate analyst and none of the "theories" put forth by the AGWCult ever make the least bit of sense.

So, again, how does CO2 turn the oceans acidic?

So you say.

What is Ocean Acidification?

When carbon dioxide (CO2) is absorbed by seawater, chemical reactions occur that reduce seawater pH, carbonate ion concentration, and saturation states of biologically important calcium carbonate minerals. These chemical reactions are termed "ocean acidification" or "OA" for short. Calcium carbonate minerals are the building blocks for the skeletons and shells of many marine organisms. In areas where most life now congregates in the ocean, the seawater is supersaturated with respect to calcium carbonate minerals. This means there are abundant building blocks for calcifying organisms to build their skeletons and shells. However, continued ocean acidification is causing many parts of the ocean to become undersaturated with these minerals, which is likely to affect the ability of some organisms to produce and maintain their shells.

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the pH of surface ocean waters has fallen by 0.1 pH units. Since the pH scale, like the Richter scale, is logarithmic, this change represents approximately a 30 percent increase in acidity. Future predictions indicate that the oceans will continue to absorb carbon dioxide and become even more acidic. Estimates of future carbon dioxide levels, based on business as usual emission scenarios, indicate that by the end of this century the surface waters of the ocean could be nearly 150 percent more acidic, resulting in a pH that the oceans haven’t experienced for more than 20 million years.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ocean Acidification -- National Geographic

The oceans currently absorb about a third of human-created CO2 emissions, roughly 22 million tons a day. Projections based on these numbers show that by the end of this century, continued emissions could reduce ocean pH by another 0.5 units. Shell-forming animals including corals, oysters, shrimp, lobster, many planktonic organisms, and even some fish species could be gravely affected.

Equally worrisome is the fact that as the oceans continue to absorb more CO2, their capacity as a carbon storehouse could diminish. That means more of the carbon dioxide we emit will remain in the atmosphere, further aggravating global climate change.

Scientific awareness of ocean acidification is relatively recent, and researchers are just beginning to study its effects on marine ecosystems. But all signs indicate that unless humans are able to control and eventually eliminate our fossil fuel emissions, ocean organisms will find themselves under increasing pressure to adapt to their habitat's changing chemistry or perish.

 

[Old Rocks]

What is ocean acidification?

FAQ on ocean acidification
Ask a scientist
Web resources
Key documents
The other CO2 problem animation
The consequences of man's use of fossil fuels (coal, oil and natural gas) in terms of global warming has not escaped anyones attention. Ocean acidification is another, and much less known, result of the approximately 79 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) released into the atmosphere every day, not only as a result of fossilfuel burning but also of deforestation and production of cement (7). Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, about one third ofthe CO2 released in the atmosphere by anthropogenic (human-caused) activities has been absorbed by the world&#8217;s oceans,which play a key role in moderating climate change (5). Without this capacity of the oceans, the CO2 content in the atmosphere would have been much higher and global warming and its consequences more dramatic. The impacts of ocean acidification on marine ecosystems are still poorly known but one of the most likely consequences is the slower growth of organisms forming calcareous skeletons or shells, suchas corals and mollusks.



The carbon cycle

Inorder to understand ocean acidification and its possible impacts, one needs to understand the behaviour of carbon in nature. Carbon, as other elements, is circulating in different chemical forms and between different parts of the Earth system (atmosphere, biosphere and the oceans). These fluxes of carbon in inorganic (e.g. CO2) and organic forms (sugar and more complex carbohydrates in the biosphere) constitute the carbon cycle. In a very short time span, human activities use an old reservoir of carbon (fossil fuels) which took millions of years to accumulate, thus creating a new and massive flux of CO2 into the atmosphere. The oceans can mitigate this additional carbon dioxide flux and thus help moderate global warming but this is not without consequences.


The world's oceans play a fundamental role in the exchange of CO2 with the atmosphere and constitute an important sink for atmospheric CO2. Once dissolved in sea water, carbon dioxide is subject to two possible fates. It can either be used by photosynthesis or other physiological processes, or remain free in its differentdissolved forms in the water. The latter leads to ocean acidification.
The chemical process of ocean acidification

There is a constant exchange between the upper layers of the oceans and the atmosphere. Nature strives towards equilibrium, and thus for the ocean and the atmosphere to contain equal concentrations of CO2. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere therefore dissolves in the surfacewaters of the oceans in order to establish a concentration inequilibrium with that of the atmosphere. As CO2 dissolves in the ocean it generates dramatic changes in sea water chemistry. CO2 reacts with water molecules (H2O) and forms the weak acid H2CO3 (carbonic acid). Most of this acid dissociates into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-). The increase in H+ ions reduces pH (measure of acidity) and the oceans acidify, that is they become more acidic or rather less alkaline since although the ocean is acidifying, its pH is still greater than 7 (that of water with a neutral pH). The average pH of today's surface waters is 8.1, which is approximately 0.1 pH units less than the estimated pre-industrial value 200 years ago (2,3).


Projections of future changes

Modeling demonstrates that if CO2 continues to be released on current trends, ocean average pH will reach 7.8 by the end of this century, corresponding to 0.5 units below the pre-industrial level, a pH level that has not been experienced for several millions of years (1). A change of 0.5 units might not sound as a very big change, but the pH scale is logaritmic meaning that such achange is equivalent to a three fold increase in H+ concentration. All this is happening at a speed 100 times greater than has ever been observed during the geological past. Several marine species, communities and ecosystems might not have the time to acclimate or adapt to these fast changes in ocean chemistry

 

[Luddly Neddite]

honey hush i can tell you how pure you coke is....but this is beyond me.....i would just add vingear

I don't know a lot about drugs but I doubt vinegar would improve cocaine.

Well, maybe Balsamic vinegar ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What is ocean acidification?

FAQ on ocean acidification
Ask a scientist
Web resources
Key documents
The other CO2 problem animation
The consequences of man's use of fossil fuels (coal, oil and natural gas) in terms of global warming has not escaped anyones attention. Ocean acidification is another, and much less known, result of the approximately 79 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) released into the atmosphere every day, not only as a result of fossilfuel burning but also of deforestation and production of cement (7). Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, about one third ofthe CO2 released in the atmosphere by anthropogenic (human-caused) activities has been absorbed by the world’s oceans,which play a key role in moderating climate change (5). Without this capacity of the oceans, the CO2 content in the atmosphere would have been much higher and global warming and its consequences more dramatic. The impacts of ocean acidification on marine ecosystems are still poorly known but one of the most likely consequences is the slower growth of organisms forming calcareous skeletons or shells, suchas corals and mollusks.



The carbon cycle

Inorder to understand ocean acidification and its possible impacts, one needs to understand the behaviour of carbon in nature. Carbon, as other elements, is circulating in different chemical forms and between different parts of the Earth system (atmosphere, biosphere and the oceans). These fluxes of carbon in inorganic (e.g. CO2) and organic forms (sugar and more complex carbohydrates in the biosphere) constitute the carbon cycle. In a very short time span, human activities use an old reservoir of carbon (fossil fuels) which took millions of years to accumulate, thus creating a new and massive flux of CO2 into the atmosphere. The oceans can mitigate this additional carbon dioxide flux and thus help moderate global warming but this is not without consequences.


The world's oceans play a fundamental role in the exchange of CO2 with the atmosphere and constitute an important sink for atmospheric CO2. Once dissolved in sea water, carbon dioxide is subject to two possible fates. It can either be used by photosynthesis or other physiological processes, or remain free in its differentdissolved forms in the water. The latter leads to ocean acidification.
The chemical process of ocean acidification

There is a constant exchange between the upper layers of the oceans and the atmosphere. Nature strives towards equilibrium, and thus for the ocean and the atmosphere to contain equal concentrations of CO2. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere therefore dissolves in the surfacewaters of the oceans in order to establish a concentration inequilibrium with that of the atmosphere. As CO2 dissolves in the ocean it generates dramatic changes in sea water chemistry. CO2 reacts with water molecules (H2O) and forms the weak acid H2CO3 (carbonic acid). Most of this acid dissociates into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-). The increase in H+ ions reduces pH (measure of acidity) and the oceans acidify, that is they become more acidic or rather less alkaline since although the ocean is acidifying, its pH is still greater than 7 (that of water with a neutral pH). The average pH of today's surface waters is 8.1, which is approximately 0.1 pH units less than the estimated pre-industrial value 200 years ago (2,3).


Projections of future changes

Modeling demonstrates that if CO2 continues to be released on current trends, ocean average pH will reach 7.8 by the end of this century, corresponding to 0.5 units below the pre-industrial level, a pH level that has not been experienced for several millions of years (1). A change of 0.5 units might not sound as a very big change, but the pH scale is logaritmic meaning that such achange is equivalent to a three fold increase in H+ concentration. All this is happening at a speed 100 times greater than has ever been observed during the geological past. Several marine species, communities and ecosystems might not have the time to acclimate or adapt to these fast changes in ocean chemistry

"The average pH of today's surface waters is 8.1, which is approximately 0.1 pH units less than the estimated pre-industrial value 200 years ago"

Oh, it's an "estimate" of pH 200 years ago.

 

[indiajo]

Can someone with a scientific background (that leaves Old Rocks and Abe out in the cold) please weigh in here?

Well...............that's tricky
I think you might have already asked Dr. Google and found out that this would get nasty.

1. If you have a pH of 8.25 in the original water, that means that there is some basic solution in it. Whatever, maybe Ca and Mg Carbonates. This makes it even more complicated, because there exists an equilibrium between H2CO3 and the Carbonates which varies over the respective concentrations.

2. The acid constant of H2CO3 changes with the concentration

3. the dissociation factor of H2CO3 varies with the temperature, additionally you have always just dissolved CO2 in the water that is not reacting to H2CO3.

A little introduction: ****=http

****://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid#pH_and_composition_of_carbonic_acid_solutions

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can someone with a scientific background (that leaves Old Rocks and Abe out in the cold) please weigh in here?

Well...............that's tricky
I think you might have already asked Dr. Google and found out that this would get nasty.

1. If you have a pH of 8.25 in the original water, that means that there is some basic solution in it. Whatever, maybe Ca and Mg Carbonates. This makes it even more complicated, because there exists an equilibrium between H2CO3 and the Carbonates which varies over the respective concentrations.

2. The acid constant of H2CO3 changes with the concentration

3. the dissociation factor of H2CO3 varies with the temperature, additionally you have always just dissolved CO2 in the water that is not reacting to H2CO3.

A little introduction: ****=http

****://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid#pH_and_composition_of_carbonic_acid_solutions

My suspicion is that there's not enough CO2 in Earth's atmosphere to lower the pH of our oceans as proposed.

I'm looking for someone who can do the maths for the amount of CO2 to lower the pH of 1 liter volume from 8.25 to 8.15 then multiply that amount by 10^21

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh wait Old Rocks scholarly cut and paste stated that they only measure "surface water". That's odd. Does acid water float to the surface? Does all that manmade global warming trapped in the deep ocean drive the acid water right to the litmus paper?

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk