CDZ School Voucher Math

[Fenton Lum]

Sure, let's turn education over to concentrated corporate wealth and power too, might as well, we've handed everything else over to them including the political system and the media.

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

And, it is a place of learning, not indoctrination as so many seem to think.

Really? You really think that these colleges aren't indoctrinating kids....?

The problem is it is not the indoctrination you seek, that's all.

 

[2aguy]

Sure, let's turn education over to concentrated corporate wealth and power too, might as well, we've handed everything else over to them including the political system and the media.

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

Yep.......they have to compete for the dollars of the students coming in.......since the students can go wherever they want...

We all want to be ownd by private corporate institutions where the people have no voice at all.

No...our children are already stuck in government schools controlled by the education wing of the democrat party......giving parents the ability to choose the school their kids attend will save the lives of those kids....they will actually have a shot at a future....

 

[2aguy]

Sure, let's turn education over to concentrated corporate wealth and power too, might as well, we've handed everything else over to them including the political system and the media.

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

And, it is a place of learning, not indoctrination as so many seem to think.

Really? You really think that these colleges aren't indoctrinating kids....?

The problem is it is not the indoctrination you seek, that's all.

Nope....free minds, free speech.....the search for knowledge.....and learning a skill to make a living..that is what education should do...but doesn't when the left is in control.

 

[oldsoul]

Sure, let's turn education over to concentrated corporate wealth and power too, might as well, we've handed everything else over to them including the political system and the media.

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

And, it is a place of learning, not indoctrination as so many seem to think.

Really? You really think that these colleges aren't indoctrinating kids....?

The problem is it is not the indoctrination you seek, that's all.

No, as a college professor acquaintance puts it, "I am here to teach them HOW to think, not WHAT to think." So, the fact that you admit that there is indoctrination, and you have no problem with it, is the problem.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Sure, let's turn education over to concentrated corporate wealth and power too, might as well, we've handed everything else over to them including the political system and the media.

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

Yep.......they have to compete for the dollars of the students coming in.......since the students can go wherever they want...

We all want to be ownd by private corporate institutions where the people have no voice at all.

No...our children are already stuck in government schools controlled by the education wing of the democrat party......giving parents the ability to choose the school their kids attend will save the lives of those kids....they will actually have a shot at a future....

america has no future if it stays on this path of societal wealth extraction and privatization.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

And, it is a place of learning, not indoctrination as so many seem to think.

Really? You really think that these colleges aren't indoctrinating kids....?

The problem is it is not the indoctrination you seek, that's all.

No, as a college professor acquaintance puts it, "I am here to teach them HOW to think, not WHAT to think." So, the fact that you admit that there is indoctrination, and you have no problem with it, is the problem.

Always in the eye of the beholder.

 

[oldsoul]

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

And, it is a place of learning, not indoctrination as so many seem to think.

Really? You really think that these colleges aren't indoctrinating kids....?

The problem is it is not the indoctrination you seek, that's all.

No, as a college professor acquaintance puts it, "I am here to teach them HOW to think, not WHAT to think." So, the fact that you admit that there is indoctrination, and you have no problem with it, is the problem.

Always in the eye of the beholder.

You are pretty good at this comedy thing. Thanks.

 

[Unkotare]

Our college system is built on freedom of attendence [sic]...and it is the best in the world........

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

Yep.......they have to compete for the dollars of the students coming in.......since the students can go wherever they want...

We all want to be ownd by private corporate institutions where the people have no voice at all.

No...our children are already stuck in government schools controlled by the education wing of the democrat party......giving parents the ability to choose the school their kids attend will save the lives of those kids....they will actually have a shot at a future....

america has no future if it stays on this path of societal wealth extraction and privatization.

It must be exhausting to maintain a constant state of hysteria.....

 

[Fenton Lum]

It's the best in the world because it is built on competition.

Yep.......they have to compete for the dollars of the students coming in.......since the students can go wherever they want...

We all want to be ownd by private corporate institutions where the people have no voice at all.

No...our children are already stuck in government schools controlled by the education wing of the democrat party......giving parents the ability to choose the school their kids attend will save the lives of those kids....they will actually have a shot at a future....

america has no future if it stays on this path of societal wealth extraction and privatization.

It must be exhausting to maintain a constant state of hysteria.....

That's what television is for in america.

 

[jwoodie]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Taxpayers pay less for public education.

4. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

Some folks want to do away with public education. There's about a $3T pile of public funding the private sector would love to gobble up. There's your math. Of course they'll attempt to push it as "choice" and "competition", but anyone aware knows what's going on.

 

[oldsoul]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Taxpayers pay less for public education.

4. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

Some folks want to do away with public education. There's about a $3T pile of public funding the private sector would love to gobble up. There's your math. Of course they'll attempt to push it as "choice" and "competition", but anyone aware knows what's going on.

Ok, I'll bite. Just what, exactly, would be wrong with privatizing, as long as the same, or better, standards are met? What, precisely, is the downside, again, as long as a minimum requirement is satisfied? I would even be fine with that requirement being set by government.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Taxpayers pay less for public education.

4. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

Some folks want to do away with public education. There's about a $3T pile of public funding the private sector would love to gobble up. There's your math. Of course they'll attempt to push it as "choice" and "competition", but anyone aware knows what's going on.

Ok, I'll bite. Just what, exactly, would be wrong with privatizing, as long as the same, or better, standards are met? What, precisely, is the downside, again, as long as a minimum requirement is satisfied? I would even be fine with that requirement being set by government.

They can do whatever they want, go be "competitive" in the market place without public funding. You want to offer a "privatized" alternative? Great. Go do so.

 

[jwoodie]

Ok, I'll bite. Just what, exactly, would be wrong with privatizing, as long as the same, or better, standards are met? What, precisely, is the downside, again, as long as a minimum requirement is satisfied? I would even be fine with that requirement being set by government.

I think that public education is the best alternative for most students because it provides a common basis for an educated citizenry. However, we have allowed it to be taken over by political elements (including unions) which jealously guard their monopoly on educational expenditures and curriculum. Private school vouchers would provide a greater level of competition and transparency of public school practices and performance.

 

[Toronado3800]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Taxpayers pay less for public education.

4. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

Some folks want to do away with public education. There's about a $3T pile of public funding the private sector would love to gobble up. There's your math. Of course they'll attempt to push it as "choice" and "competition", but anyone aware knows what's going on.

Ok, I'll bite. Just what, exactly, would be wrong with privatizing, as long as the same, or better, standards are met? What, precisely, is the downside, again, as long as a minimum requirement is satisfied? I would even be fine with that requirement being set by government.

Unpredictability and a lack of accountability are the biggest hazards. Earlier I cited some problems with what happens when the "good" private schools fill up. This is going to lead to more odd problems with enrollment procedures. Think of it as kids getting inferior educations on account of their incompetent parents.

Businesses are created to make money and do all kinds of weird things.

Religious schools are a different creature. I

 

[Toronado3800]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

Ah, from one point of view your math I can't deny.

Trouble is this is aid for those who can afford to pay for private schools at the expense of public schools.

Your calculations are 100% correct as you know, but I ask you to turn the point of view on the math about.

Right now with no vouchers if two of the kids go to private schools the public school gets $120,000 to deal with the kids from families who or unable to, don't care to, or who have kids who got rejected from the private schools. Under the voucher system the public schools only get $112,000 as you said.

 

[oldsoul]

Ok, I'll bite. Just what, exactly, would be wrong with privatizing, as long as the same, or better, standards are met? What, precisely, is the downside, again, as long as a minimum requirement is satisfied? I would even be fine with that requirement being set by government.

I think that public education is the best alternative for most students because it provides a common basis for an educated citizenry. However, we have allowed it to be taken over by political elements (including unions) which jealously guard their monopoly on educational expenditures and curriculum. Private school vouchers would provide a greater level of competition and transparency of public school practices and performance.

Agreed. I just don't understand why a person, other than those you mentioned, would be opposed to such a thing.

 

[oldsoul]

Perhaps a simpler explanation will help the math-challenged posters:

Let's take 10 public school students with an average annual cost of $12,000 per student. Total cost is $120,000 per year. Then let's offer a $6,000 voucher for any student who wants to go to a private school instead. Say two students use these vouchers, subtracting $12,000 from the public school fund. The remaining 8 public school students now have $112,000 to be spent on their education, which equals $14,000 per student.

Results:

1. Parents get to choose the best education alternative for their children.

2. Public schools get more money per student.

3. Taxpayers pay less for public education.

4. Competition makes education more effective and efficient.

P.S. You can multiply the above numbers by any amounts, but the results will be the same.

Some folks want to do away with public education. There's about a $3T pile of public funding the private sector would love to gobble up. There's your math. Of course they'll attempt to push it as "choice" and "competition", but anyone aware knows what's going on.

Ok, I'll bite. Just what, exactly, would be wrong with privatizing, as long as the same, or better, standards are met? What, precisely, is the downside, again, as long as a minimum requirement is satisfied? I would even be fine with that requirement being set by government.

They can do whatever they want, go be "competitive" in the market place without public funding. You want to offer a "privatized" alternative? Great. Go do so.

Ahh, but what I want to see is a mechanism in place where the parents (the adult consumers, on behalf of their children) can directly hold schools accountable. One could argue that such a mechanism is in place, school board meetings, I would argue that this has become a non-factor with both federal and state level mandates (as well as protectionist unions) that leave little left for local school boards to deal with. So, what recourse does the average parent have if they believe that the school system is failing their children? Only one, unless they are fortunate enough to be able to afford private school, and that is devoting a tremendous amount of their time and effort to "filling the gaps" that public schools leave. Yes, this is the responsibility of parents, however, it is my experience and opinion that these "gaps" are becoming ever larger and more time consuming to overcome. Moreover, these "gaps" are relegating schools to little more than government daycare. Some statistics if you care to see them:

NOTE: Includes public and private schools. The reading scale scores range from 0 to 500. Assessment was not conducted for grade 8 in 2000 or for grade 12 in 2000, 2003, 2007, and 2011. Testing accommodations (e.g., extended time, small group testing) for children with disabilities and English language learners were not permitted in 1992 and 1994.
SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics, National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), selected years, 1992–2015 Reading Assessments, NAEP Data Explorer. See Digest of Education Statistics 2015, table 221.10. The Condition of Education - Elementary and Secondary Education - Assessments - Reading Performance - Indicator May (2016)

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ol-seniors-arent-college-ready-naep-data-show
So, clearly there is a problem that needs to be addressed. What the standards are is of little importance when the track record of education is so poor. Your idea of increasing(?) the standards is not a bad one, per se, but what real effect would it have, if the education system in this country cannot achieve the lower(?) standards that are currently in place?