SARAH PALIN shows correlation: Less unions means more wealth, innovation

[The T]

UNDERSTANDING POVERTY IN AMERICA <Heritage

Time for a reality check for some of these people isn't it?

Yes, it is.

I must humbly say, I dominated these libs in this thread. Wasn't even a fair fight.

But when we are on the side of what is simply common sense and necessary in this global economy, it's easy to be right.

A declaration of victory doesn't really mean you "won" or "dominated" anything.



Ask that guy..

And this vid has to do with the topic...HOW exactly?

 

[bucs90]

UNDERSTANDING POVERTY IN AMERICA <Heritage

Time for a reality check for some of these people isn't it?

Yes, it is.

I must humbly say, I dominated these libs in this thread. Wasn't even a fair fight.

But when we are on the side of what is simply common sense and necessary in this global economy, it's easy to be right.

A declaration of victory doesn't really mean you "won" or "dominated" anything.



Ask that guy..

True. But overwhelming evidence of victory does. Read all of the thread. You'll see it.

 

[The Hatter]

We won't because we are America. We outlawed slavery, which China is using. We have a Dept of Labor to ensure fair working conditions, unlike China.

But somewhere is a happy medium where we can compete, but still live civil lives with prosperity. It's the Southern states model. The union world just has to adjust is all.

And I wonder why working conditions in the United States are so much better than China today? Oh, I know why! Unions!

Labor rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many labor movement campaigns have to do with limiting hours in the work place. 19th century labor movements campaigned for an Eight-hour day. Worker advocacy groups have also sought to limit work hours, making a working week of 40 hours or less standard in many countries. A 35-hour workweek was established in France in 2000, although this standard has been considerably weakened since then. Workers may agree with employers to work for longer, but the extra hours are payable overtime. In the European Union the working week is limited to a maximum of 48 hours including overtime (see also Working Time Directive).

Labor rights advocates have also worked to combat child labor. They see child labor as exploitative, cruel, and often economically damaging. Child labor opponents often argue that working children are deprived of an education.

Labor rights advocates have worked to improve workplace conditions which meet established standards. During the Progressive Era the United States began workplace reforms, which received publicity boosts from Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and events such as the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Labor advocates and other groups often criticize production facilities with poor working conditions as sweatshops and occupational health hazards, and campaign for better labor practices and recognition of workers rights throughout the world.

The labor movement pushes for guaranteed minimum wage laws, and there are continuing negotiations about increases to the minimum wage. However, opponents see minimum wage laws as limiting employment opportunities for unskilled and entry level workers.

And yet, many companies would like to take away many of the things that the Union has fought for and gained for not just themselves but for all Americans. We do have a Department of Labor, however they are only as efficient as the people running them and the people making the labor laws. A law can be repealed, hard working Americans fighting to make sure they can keep basic rights cannot be repealed. This is why Unions are not obsolete.

The fact you do not want emulate China is hypocrisy on your part. After all, if we want a more efficient model, why not go for the most efficient model of all? In fact, you'd love China, they only have one Union. It is government run and keeps the workers down when they get too "greedy" as someone like yourself who would live in China might say.

Fact of the matter is, Unions are not obsolete and you still have failed to prove your original point anyway. You still have not provided evidence of causation with your graph in the OP.

 

[bucs90]

And this vid has to do with the topic...HOW exactly?

It doesn't. But you know libs. When defeated, they'll resort to name calling or attacking the opponent, not the topic.

I thoroughly handed these libs their asses on this thread. It was quite fun.

 

[The T]

It doesn't. But you know libs. When defeated, they'll resort to name calling or attacking the opponent, not the topic.

I thoroughly handed these libs their asses on this thread. It was quite fun.

You're the bad guy in their eyes...But hey. Badge of honor.

 

[The Hatter]

It doesn't. But you know libs. When defeated, they'll resort to name calling or attacking the opponent, not the topic.

I didn't realize The Infidel was a Liberal.

Thanks for that insight.

 

[bucs90]

We won't because we are America. We outlawed slavery, which China is using. We have a Dept of Labor to ensure fair working conditions, unlike China.

But somewhere is a happy medium where we can compete, but still live civil lives with prosperity. It's the Southern states model. The union world just has to adjust is all.

And I wonder why working conditions in the United States are so much better than China today? Oh, I know why! Unions!

Labor rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many labor movement campaigns have to do with limiting hours in the work place. 19th century labor movements campaigned for an Eight-hour day. Worker advocacy groups have also sought to limit work hours, making a working week of 40 hours or less standard in many countries. A 35-hour workweek was established in France in 2000, although this standard has been considerably weakened since then. Workers may agree with employers to work for longer, but the extra hours are payable overtime. In the European Union the working week is limited to a maximum of 48 hours including overtime (see also Working Time Directive).

Labor rights advocates have also worked to combat child labor. They see child labor as exploitative, cruel, and often economically damaging. Child labor opponents often argue that working children are deprived of an education.

Labor rights advocates have worked to improve workplace conditions which meet established standards. During the Progressive Era the United States began workplace reforms, which received publicity boosts from Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and events such as the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Labor advocates and other groups often criticize production facilities with poor working conditions as sweatshops and occupational health hazards, and campaign for better labor practices and recognition of workers rights throughout the world.

The labor movement pushes for guaranteed minimum wage laws, and there are continuing negotiations about increases to the minimum wage. However, opponents see minimum wage laws as limiting employment opportunities for unskilled and entry level workers.

And yet, many companies would like to take away many of the things that the Union has fought for and gained for not just themselves but for all Americans. We do have a Department of Labor, however they are only as efficient as the people running them and the people making the labor laws. A law can be repealed, hard working Americans fighting to make sure they can keep basic rights cannot be repealed. This is why Unions are not obsolete.

The fact you do not want emulate China is hypocrisy on your part. After all, if we want a more efficient model, why not go for the most efficient model of all? In fact, you'd love China, they only have one Union. It is government run and keeps the workers down when they get too "greedy" as someone like yourself who would live in China might say.

Fact of the matter is, Unions are not obsolete and you still have failed to prove your original point anyway. You still have not provided evidence of causation with your graph in the OP.

True, some companies are greedy. But that greed is partly what protects workers in todays market.

See, companies know a miserable workforce won't be competitive. So while they may wanna take stuff away, employee morale is crucial to compete with other companies. So there is a balance. Treat your employees like crap, and your best employees will leave for other competitors.

And it's in no way hypocrisy. I'd rather China not even be a competitor. But they are. We must adjust to that. Denying China is a competitor is dangerous. Doesn't mean we need to emulate them, but unless we want total economic collapse, we MUST adjust to compete with them, right?


I provided ample evidence with links, you just are ignoring them. Unions are obsolete. The market has moved on without them, example the Southern states auto industry which is thriving, while Detorit collapsed and needed federal bailouts. Same with teachers. Unions are a fad that is on the way out the door, but they won't go without a fight.

Your denial of this reality won't change it though. And the desire to compete and thrive will force American companies to compete for the best employees, and thus, force them to treat the employees at least good enough to get us to work for them. Without a union, the best employees will get the best opportunities, which is why liberals HATE the idea of not having a union crutch because they fear being forced to actually compete daily against other employees for success.

 

[bucs90]

Ignoring the reality that a person in Anytown, USA is now going to have to compete for work with a person in Anytown, China is an unfortunate reality.

 

[The Hatter]

True, some companies are greedy. But that greed is partly what protects workers in todays market.

See, companies know a miserable workforce won't be competitive. So while they may wanna take stuff away, employee morale is crucial to compete with other companies. So there is a balance. Treat your employees like crap, and your best employees will leave for other competitors.

And it's in no way hypocrisy. I'd rather China not even be a competitor. But they are. We must adjust to that. Denying China is a competitor is dangerous. Doesn't mean we need to emulate them, but unless we want total economic collapse, we MUST adjust to compete with them, right?


I provided ample evidence with links, you just are ignoring them. Unions are obsolete. The market has moved on without them, example the Southern states auto industry which is thriving, while Detorit collapsed and needed federal bailouts. Same with teachers. Unions are a fad that is on the way out the door, but they won't go without a fight.

Your denial of this reality won't change it though. And the desire to compete and thrive will force American companies to compete for the best employees, and thus, force them to treat the employees at least good enough to get us to work for them. Without a union, the best employees will get the best opportunities, which is why liberals HATE the idea of not having a union crutch because they fear being forced to actually compete daily against other employees for success.

Companies know a miserable workforce won't be competitive, then how come workers in China have little to no rights? After all, if this is the case, then the American corporations in China surely don't have workers in sweatshops working for extremely no pay. Right? Right?

Also, if unregulated, the free market would develop monopolies. Something else that the government regulates, why? To create competition! Something you're talking about throughout your post. Why are you against the free market?

You rather not China be a competitor? I'm sure plenty of people feel that way. However, the reality is that they are. Except if we use your logic, neither the Detroit model or the Southern model truly compete with China. What's wrong with giving up a few rights using your logic? After all, we must compete with them, right?

Companies in the United States or in general don't want to just compete, they want more and more of the market share for themselves. Which is completely understandable, after all, what company doesn't want more profits?

Your logic makes absolutely no sense furthermore because history and current events elsewhere in the world show otherwise. Furthermore, you contradict one of your posts you just made by just having to throw in an insult about Liberals in at the end.

 

[bucs90]

True, some companies are greedy. But that greed is partly what protects workers in todays market.

See, companies know a miserable workforce won't be competitive. So while they may wanna take stuff away, employee morale is crucial to compete with other companies. So there is a balance. Treat your employees like crap, and your best employees will leave for other competitors.

And it's in no way hypocrisy. I'd rather China not even be a competitor. But they are. We must adjust to that. Denying China is a competitor is dangerous. Doesn't mean we need to emulate them, but unless we want total economic collapse, we MUST adjust to compete with them, right?


I provided ample evidence with links, you just are ignoring them. Unions are obsolete. The market has moved on without them, example the Southern states auto industry which is thriving, while Detorit collapsed and needed federal bailouts. Same with teachers. Unions are a fad that is on the way out the door, but they won't go without a fight.

Your denial of this reality won't change it though. And the desire to compete and thrive will force American companies to compete for the best employees, and thus, force them to treat the employees at least good enough to get us to work for them. Without a union, the best employees will get the best opportunities, which is why liberals HATE the idea of not having a union crutch because they fear being forced to actually compete daily against other employees for success.

Companies know a miserable workforce won't be competitive, then how come workers in China have little to no rights? After all, if this is the case, then the American corporations in China surely don't have workers in sweatshops working for extremely no pay. Right? Right?

Also, if unregulated, the free market would develop monopolies. Something else that the government regulates, why? To create competition! Something you're talking about throughout your post. Why are you against the free market?

You rather not China be a competitor? I'm sure plenty of people feel that way. However, the reality is that they are. Except if we use your logic, neither the Detroit model or the Southern model truly compete with China. What's wrong with giving up a few rights using your logic? After all, we must compete with them, right?

Companies in the United States or in general don't want to just compete, they want more and more of the market share for themselves. Which is completely understandable, after all, what company doesn't want more profits?

Your logic makes absolutely no sense furthermore because history and current events elsewhere in the world show otherwise. Furthermore, you contradict one of your posts you just made by just having to throw in an insult about Liberals in at the end.

Your making no sense at all man.

The reason China has a miserable workforce, but is competitive with us.............THEY ARE A COMMUNIST NATION DUDE.

Thats why we on the right fear socialism and communism.

EVERY company in China can treat their employees like slaves. Because the Chinese Dept of Labor is under a communist government that is OK with treating people like that. Plain and simple.

Your responses have proven so many right wing concerns to be legitimate.

 

[blu]

wealth for who?

Everyone.

In the last 100 years, our country became so rich, that our "poor" are among the richest 5% of humans on Earth.

The black population of America, if taken alone as a seperate nation, would be the 5th richest country on Earth. Take that in for a moment. African Americans, if counted in isolation from the rest of Americans, would be the 5th richest country on Earth.

Yep. We all got rich.....as union dwindled in numbers.

I find that very hard to believe. any stats on the fifth richest nation if they were seperated? Also is that in terms of wealth per person or just an overall amount?