Rules For Traditionals: How People In Wedding Trades Can Defend Themselves

[bripat9643]

Hey Melissa, as of yesterday, you'll be cutting two checks, one for 75K and another for 60K. Hope it was worth it to you.

As for "defending" yourself, just bake the stupid cake. Doing what you already do for a living is hardly too much to ask.

In other words, bend over and take it up the ass. That's the kind of freedom loving attitude we've come to expect from the likes of you.

They had the freedom to pick their damn job, so, do it.

Who put you or the queers in charge of deciding what their job is?

They picked thier job, dumbass.

The job they picked didn't include baking wedding cakes for queers.

 

[bripat9643]

In other words, bend over and take it up the ass. That's the kind of freedom loving attitude we've come to expect from the likes of you.

They had the freedom to pick their damn job, so, do it.

Who put you or the queers in charge of deciding what their job is?

They picked thier job, dumbass.

Again, you don't get to decide what the responsibilities of their jobs are, dumbass.

Yes, we do. Capitalism is regulated. Time to grow up now pee boy.

You're thinking of fascism. Capitalism isn't regulated.

 

[Nosmo King]

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

So, in a free society it's up to wedding vendors to be the moral compass?

And a wedding cake is flour, sugar, butter and eggs. Not a holy sacrament, not a sacred ritual or rite. And wedding cakes are the stock in trade of bakeries. Their services are enjoyed by other sinners, yet homosexuals seem to occupy a special place in the dark hearts of the bigots, the moral compasses of the community. Able to arbitrate good and evil, sinners and saints according to their own peculiar dictates. Every other customer is fine so long as the check clears. But because of an obscure Biblical passage, the moral compass of the community, the wedding vendor, has a special say.

Its part of the celebration, and as such is an expression of love between two people, a love a large part of the population finds sinful.

Again, find me a murderer or an adulterer who goes to get a cake to celebrate publicly their murder or celebration, and a baker either refused or didn't refuse, and you would have a baseline for your point.

Ah! The Moral Compasses. The wedding vendors who arbi8trate good and evil, sin and saintliness.

Was it proper and fitting for these shimmering examples of puritanical judgment to provide services for Brittany Spears 36 hour marriage? How about a mafia princess's wedding? The money may be bloodstained, but it's still green!

What about the store that sold the paper wedding bells and streamers and the little soap bubble dispensers the wedding party regales the happy couple with? Aren't those 'part of the celebration too? What's the problem? Those vendors did not kbnow that their goods were 'part of the celebration' of a same sex wedding. the baker was aware and used his holier than thou trump card to commit yet even more pettiness and repression in the name of the Lord.

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

 

[Nosmo King]

Hey Melissa, as of yesterday, you'll be cutting two checks, one for 75K and another for 60K. Hope it was worth it to you.

As for "defending" yourself, just bake the stupid cake. Doing what you already do for a living is hardly too much to ask.

In other words, bend over and take it up the ass. That's the kind of freedom loving attitude we've come to expect from the likes of you.

They had the freedom to pick their damn job, so, do it.

Who put you or the queers in charge of deciding what their job is?

They picked thier job, dumbass.

The job they picked didn't include baking wedding cakes for queers.

What makes those cakes any different than any other cake? Are there special ingredients? Do they have to be baked in special ovens? Special pans?

 

[Nosmo King]

They had the freedom to pick their damn job, so, do it.

Who put you or the queers in charge of deciding what their job is?

They picked thier job, dumbass.

Again, you don't get to decide what the responsibilities of their jobs are, dumbass.

Yes, we do. Capitalism is regulated. Time to grow up now pee boy.

You're thinking of fascism. Capitalism isn't regulated.

Hah! Try again! Capitalism is constantly regulated for its own good.

 

[martybegan]

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

So, in a free society it's up to wedding vendors to be the moral compass?

And a wedding cake is flour, sugar, butter and eggs. Not a holy sacrament, not a sacred ritual or rite. And wedding cakes are the stock in trade of bakeries. Their services are enjoyed by other sinners, yet homosexuals seem to occupy a special place in the dark hearts of the bigots, the moral compasses of the community. Able to arbitrate good and evil, sinners and saints according to their own peculiar dictates. Every other customer is fine so long as the check clears. But because of an obscure Biblical passage, the moral compass of the community, the wedding vendor, has a special say.

Its part of the celebration, and as such is an expression of love between two people, a love a large part of the population finds sinful.

Again, find me a murderer or an adulterer who goes to get a cake to celebrate publicly their murder or celebration, and a baker either refused or didn't refuse, and you would have a baseline for your point.

Ah! The Moral Compasses. The wedding vendors who arbi8trate good and evil, sin and saintliness.

Was it proper and fitting for these shimmering examples of puritanical judgment to provide services for Brittany Spears 36 hour marriage? How about a mafia princess's wedding? The money may be bloodstained, but it's still green!

What about the store that sold the paper wedding bells and streamers and the little soap bubble dispensers the wedding party regales the happy couple with? Aren't those 'part of the celebration too? What's the problem? Those vendors did not kbnow that their goods were 'part of the celebration' of a same sex wedding. the baker was aware and used his holier than thou trump card to commit yet even more pettiness and repression in the name of the Lord.

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

 

[Dante]

So, let me get this straight. "Fairness" equals "Discrimination". And 'Beliefs" equals "justification".

Fairness equals determining which impact is worse, two people having to go to another baker, or using government to force people to comply with something against their beliefs. In the case of Jim Crow, the side was on force, in this situation, the side is on the gay couple going somewhere else.

So, "fairness" is making Gay customers settle for less? Fairness is a customer not being discriminated against simply because of who they are. Fairness is equal access to vendors who provide the services for every other customer. Fairness does not mean because you are Gay or Black or Asian or Latino you the customer must seek out alternatives.

The impact on Gay customers is the perpetuation of petty repression by those who are more filled with hate and fear than true Christian love.

As Gays are not committing any crime, presumably they are wearing shirts and shoes, pose not physical threat to the business or its employees and yet you think it's 'fair' for them to be denied simply because they are Gay.

Does that mean petty repression is fair?

So only the few bakers that refuse to serve gays are able to make the best cakes? How do you know they are settling for less? By your opinion of religious people, I surprised to learn you think they even have the skills to make good cakes.

The impact on gay customers is less than the impact of forcing people to act against their will in this case, in a non-essential service. The use of government to force these people to comply is far worse than having to spend a few more minutes finding another baker, and any hurt feewings. Considering you don't seem to give a rats ass about the bakers feelings, it only comes down to who you like better, and that isn't how government is supposed to work.

Gays have to face the fact, that until the major religions are gone from the face of the earth, their lifestyle is seen as sinful, they will never gain the acceptance of these people, and using government to either force acceptance or social banishment is counter productive, petty, and just plain wrong.

The bakers who refuse service to Gays may be the only baker in town. They may be the best baker in town. And for you to comment on what you think are my thoughts about Christians is uncalled for. I have a very high opinion of Christians as I am one myself. I do, however, have a very low opinion of ignorant homophobes adopting a patina of Christianity to shield them from legal action after their bigotry harms innocent customers.

Why did you intentionally misspell 'feelings' when referring to homosexuals yet correctly spell it when referring to bigots?

Now, surely there will be those clad in ecclesiastical robes preaching about the supposed sinfulness of a homosexual lifestyle. That's all well and good in a church. But that vitriol has no place in public commerce. Suppose that same "preacher": told his congregation that Mexicans are inferior human specimens. Should those acolytes of hatred then extend that twisted philosophy to their businesses? Is that considered fair?

We were admonished bty the Lord to 'judge not lest ye be judged' and yet, these alleged Christians are using an obscure passage in a letter from Paul to a congregation in Rome to continue their petty repressions.

So the Jewish baker should be fined for not baking a Hitler cake.

Got it.

Stop hiding behind the jew thing

 

[Dante]

The bakers who refuse service to Gays may be the only baker in town. They may be the best baker in town. And for you to comment on what you think are my thoughts about Christians is uncalled for. I have a very high opinion of Christians as I am one myself. I do, however, have a very low opinion of ignorant homophobes adopting a patina of Christianity to shield them from legal action after their bigotry harms innocent customers.

Why did you intentionally misspell 'feelings' when referring to homosexuals yet correctly spell it when referring to bigots?

Now, surely there will be those clad in ecclesiastical robes preaching about the supposed sinfulness of a homosexual lifestyle. That's all well and good in a church. But that vitriol has no place in public commerce. Suppose that same "preacher": told his congregation that Mexicans are inferior human specimens. Should those acolytes of hatred then extend that twisted philosophy to their businesses? Is that considered fair?

We were admonished bty the Lord to 'judge not lest ye be judged' and yet, these alleged Christians are using an obscure passage in a letter from Paul to a congregation in Rome to continue their petty repressions.

Lot of qualifiers there, and if a town has only one baker, and that baker isn't a fan of gays, do you really think the town as a whole is a fan of gays?

I misspell it because I don't buy the bullshit in most of these suits when it comes to how damaged these people felt. Instead if a quantifiable economic damage, they have to come up with how pained they are by being "oppressed" by finding another baker. Sorry, no sympathy here. Either be proud of who you are without the need for outside approval or acceptance, or sod off.

The bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, do you disagree with that? I don't see any bible condemnation over being Mexican.

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

marty the house clown

talk about absurd arguments...

Sorry, Dainty, I guess you got too used to debating those who go with the "gays are icky" logic, and can't handle someone who is opposed to all this on procedural grounds.

procedural grounds? your'e arguments? you're nuts!

 

[Nosmo King]

So, in a free society it's up to wedding vendors to be the moral compass?

And a wedding cake is flour, sugar, butter and eggs. Not a holy sacrament, not a sacred ritual or rite. And wedding cakes are the stock in trade of bakeries. Their services are enjoyed by other sinners, yet homosexuals seem to occupy a special place in the dark hearts of the bigots, the moral compasses of the community. Able to arbitrate good and evil, sinners and saints according to their own peculiar dictates. Every other customer is fine so long as the check clears. But because of an obscure Biblical passage, the moral compass of the community, the wedding vendor, has a special say.

Its part of the celebration, and as such is an expression of love between two people, a love a large part of the population finds sinful.

Again, find me a murderer or an adulterer who goes to get a cake to celebrate publicly their murder or celebration, and a baker either refused or didn't refuse, and you would have a baseline for your point.

Ah! The Moral Compasses. The wedding vendors who arbi8trate good and evil, sin and saintliness.

Was it proper and fitting for these shimmering examples of puritanical judgment to provide services for Brittany Spears 36 hour marriage? How about a mafia princess's wedding? The money may be bloodstained, but it's still green!

What about the store that sold the paper wedding bells and streamers and the little soap bubble dispensers the wedding party regales the happy couple with? Aren't those 'part of the celebration too? What's the problem? Those vendors did not kbnow that their goods were 'part of the celebration' of a same sex wedding. the baker was aware and used his holier than thou trump card to commit yet even more pettiness and repression in the name of the Lord.

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

Submission would work well for all concerned. No one is meant to feel like a second class citizen due to the whim of a bigot, the vendors open up a huger new market of customers and the homophobes can still 'feel' as if their customers are sinners without the burden of judgment.

What is it you say? The bigots get their 'feewings' hurt, but their bottom line is expanded.

When hoteliers in the North were 'forced' to accommodate African Americans contrary to their beliefs, they found that green is more powerful than Black. I suppose the narrow minded homophobic vendors will experience the liberation of profit rather than their 'feewing' that they are being 'attacked' by paying customers.

 

[Dante]

So, "fairness" is making Gay customers settle for less? Fairness is a customer not being discriminated against simply because of who they are. Fairness is equal access to vendors who provide the services for every other customer. Fairness does not mean because you are Gay or Black or Asian or Latino you the customer must seek out alternatives.

The impact on Gay customers is the perpetuation of petty repression by those who are more filled with hate and fear than true Christian love.

As Gays are not committing any crime, presumably they are wearing shirts and shoes, pose not physical threat to the business or its employees and yet you think it's 'fair' for them to be denied simply because they are Gay.

Does that mean petty repression is fair?

So only the few bakers that refuse to serve gays are able to make the best cakes? How do you know they are settling for less? By your opinion of religious people, I surprised to learn you think they even have the skills to make good cakes.

The impact on gay customers is less than the impact of forcing people to act against their will in this case, in a non-essential service. The use of government to force these people to comply is far worse than having to spend a few more minutes finding another baker, and any hurt feewings. Considering you don't seem to give a rats ass about the bakers feelings, it only comes down to who you like better, and that isn't how government is supposed to work.

Gays have to face the fact, that until the major religions are gone from the face of the earth, their lifestyle is seen as sinful, they will never gain the acceptance of these people, and using government to either force acceptance or social banishment is counter productive, petty, and just plain wrong.

The bakers who refuse service to Gays may be the only baker in town. They may be the best baker in town. And for you to comment on what you think are my thoughts about Christians is uncalled for. I have a very high opinion of Christians as I am one myself. I do, however, have a very low opinion of ignorant homophobes adopting a patina of Christianity to shield them from legal action after their bigotry harms innocent customers.

Why did you intentionally misspell 'feelings' when referring to homosexuals yet correctly spell it when referring to bigots?

Now, surely there will be those clad in ecclesiastical robes preaching about the supposed sinfulness of a homosexual lifestyle. That's all well and good in a church. But that vitriol has no place in public commerce. Suppose that same "preacher": told his congregation that Mexicans are inferior human specimens. Should those acolytes of hatred then extend that twisted philosophy to their businesses? Is that considered fair?

We were admonished bty the Lord to 'judge not lest ye be judged' and yet, these alleged Christians are using an obscure passage in a letter from Paul to a congregation in Rome to continue their petty repressions.

Lot of qualifiers there, and if a town has only one baker, and that baker isn't a fan of gays, do you really think the town as a whole is a fan of gays?

I misspell it because I don't buy the bullshit in most of these suits when it comes to how damaged these people felt. Instead if a quantifiable economic damage, they have to come up with how pained they are by being "oppressed" by finding another baker. Sorry, no sympathy here. Either be proud of who you are without the need for outside approval or acceptance, or sod off.

The bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, do you disagree with that? I don't see any bible condemnation over being Mexican.

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

Now weddings have to do with sexual acts. Good gawd, next you'll be saying (on procedural grounds of course ) that couple who cannot bear children cannot get married

 

[martybegan]

Lot of qualifiers there, and if a town has only one baker, and that baker isn't a fan of gays, do you really think the town as a whole is a fan of gays?

I misspell it because I don't buy the bullshit in most of these suits when it comes to how damaged these people felt. Instead if a quantifiable economic damage, they have to come up with how pained they are by being "oppressed" by finding another baker. Sorry, no sympathy here. Either be proud of who you are without the need for outside approval or acceptance, or sod off.

The bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, do you disagree with that? I don't see any bible condemnation over being Mexican.

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

marty the house clown

talk about absurd arguments...

Sorry, Dainty, I guess you got too used to debating those who go with the "gays are icky" logic, and can't handle someone who is opposed to all this on procedural grounds.

procedural grounds? your'e arguments? you're nuts!

My arguments are all over the process, namely using government as a punishing bludgeon, and not the end results. Sorry you can't deal with that Dainty.

 

[Dante]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

 

[martybegan]

So only the few bakers that refuse to serve gays are able to make the best cakes? How do you know they are settling for less? By your opinion of religious people, I surprised to learn you think they even have the skills to make good cakes.

The impact on gay customers is less than the impact of forcing people to act against their will in this case, in a non-essential service. The use of government to force these people to comply is far worse than having to spend a few more minutes finding another baker, and any hurt feewings. Considering you don't seem to give a rats ass about the bakers feelings, it only comes down to who you like better, and that isn't how government is supposed to work.

Gays have to face the fact, that until the major religions are gone from the face of the earth, their lifestyle is seen as sinful, they will never gain the acceptance of these people, and using government to either force acceptance or social banishment is counter productive, petty, and just plain wrong.

The bakers who refuse service to Gays may be the only baker in town. They may be the best baker in town. And for you to comment on what you think are my thoughts about Christians is uncalled for. I have a very high opinion of Christians as I am one myself. I do, however, have a very low opinion of ignorant homophobes adopting a patina of Christianity to shield them from legal action after their bigotry harms innocent customers.

Why did you intentionally misspell 'feelings' when referring to homosexuals yet correctly spell it when referring to bigots?

Now, surely there will be those clad in ecclesiastical robes preaching about the supposed sinfulness of a homosexual lifestyle. That's all well and good in a church. But that vitriol has no place in public commerce. Suppose that same "preacher": told his congregation that Mexicans are inferior human specimens. Should those acolytes of hatred then extend that twisted philosophy to their businesses? Is that considered fair?

We were admonished bty the Lord to 'judge not lest ye be judged' and yet, these alleged Christians are using an obscure passage in a letter from Paul to a congregation in Rome to continue their petty repressions.

Lot of qualifiers there, and if a town has only one baker, and that baker isn't a fan of gays, do you really think the town as a whole is a fan of gays?

I misspell it because I don't buy the bullshit in most of these suits when it comes to how damaged these people felt. Instead if a quantifiable economic damage, they have to come up with how pained they are by being "oppressed" by finding another baker. Sorry, no sympathy here. Either be proud of who you are without the need for outside approval or acceptance, or sod off.

The bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, do you disagree with that? I don't see any bible condemnation over being Mexican.

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

Now weddings have to do with sexual acts. Good gawd, next you'll be saying (on procedural grounds of course ) that couple who cannot bear children cannot get married

Most cultures count consummation as part of the wedding process, several require witnesses if not viewing, at least in earshot.

 

[martybegan]

Its part of the celebration, and as such is an expression of love between two people, a love a large part of the population finds sinful.

Again, find me a murderer or an adulterer who goes to get a cake to celebrate publicly their murder or celebration, and a baker either refused or didn't refuse, and you would have a baseline for your point.

Ah! The Moral Compasses. The wedding vendors who arbi8trate good and evil, sin and saintliness.

Was it proper and fitting for these shimmering examples of puritanical judgment to provide services for Brittany Spears 36 hour marriage? How about a mafia princess's wedding? The money may be bloodstained, but it's still green!

What about the store that sold the paper wedding bells and streamers and the little soap bubble dispensers the wedding party regales the happy couple with? Aren't those 'part of the celebration too? What's the problem? Those vendors did not kbnow that their goods were 'part of the celebration' of a same sex wedding. the baker was aware and used his holier than thou trump card to commit yet even more pettiness and repression in the name of the Lord.

Are those vendors that have refused to serve same sex weddings? You have to deal with this on a case by case basis if you want to make valid comparison.

And you get to the crux of the matter, awareness, that coupled with the level on involvement are critical.

All of this leads back to the real issue, you don't like these people's opinions and choices, and thus they must be crushed by government, That's your worldview, and it is shared by people you may not be fans of.

It's not their opinions I and many others have a problem with. It's their actions and the notion that their morality could trump the plans of customers they have contact with only once.

and the response to that is to force them to either 1) submit, 2) be massively fined and/or 3) go out of business.

That is oppression, pure and simple, its just oppression you agree with.

So we basically say once we designate a person as part of protected class, their butthurt is "better" than anyone else's.

Submission would work well for all concerned. No one is meant to feel like a second class citizen due to the whim of a bigot, the vendors open up a huger new market of customers and the homophobes can still 'feel' as if their customers are sinners without the burden of judgment.

What is it you say? The bigots get their 'feewings' hurt, but their bottom line is expanded.

When hoteliers in the North were 'forced' to accommodate African Americans contrary to their beliefs, they found that green is more powerful than Black. I suppose the narrow minded homophobic vendors will experience the liberation of profit rather than their 'feewing' that they are being 'attacked' by paying customers.

If having to go to another baker makes you feel like a 2nd class citizen, then it isn't my fault, or the baker's fault you have the self esteem of an earthworm.

If it was just the bakers feelings you wanted to hurt, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but you want to ruin them using the government, and that is the real issue.

 

[martybegan]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

Who cares? The real point is the government shouldn't be forcing people to decide between their morals and their economic well being over a freaking wedding cake, a non-vital, easily replaceable service.

 

[Dante]

The bakers who refuse service to Gays may be the only baker in town. They may be the best baker in town. And for you to comment on what you think are my thoughts about Christians is uncalled for. I have a very high opinion of Christians as I am one myself. I do, however, have a very low opinion of ignorant homophobes adopting a patina of Christianity to shield them from legal action after their bigotry harms innocent customers.

Why did you intentionally misspell 'feelings' when referring to homosexuals yet correctly spell it when referring to bigots?

Now, surely there will be those clad in ecclesiastical robes preaching about the supposed sinfulness of a homosexual lifestyle. That's all well and good in a church. But that vitriol has no place in public commerce. Suppose that same "preacher": told his congregation that Mexicans are inferior human specimens. Should those acolytes of hatred then extend that twisted philosophy to their businesses? Is that considered fair?

We were admonished bty the Lord to 'judge not lest ye be judged' and yet, these alleged Christians are using an obscure passage in a letter from Paul to a congregation in Rome to continue their petty repressions.

Lot of qualifiers there, and if a town has only one baker, and that baker isn't a fan of gays, do you really think the town as a whole is a fan of gays?

I misspell it because I don't buy the bullshit in most of these suits when it comes to how damaged these people felt. Instead if a quantifiable economic damage, they have to come up with how pained they are by being "oppressed" by finding another baker. Sorry, no sympathy here. Either be proud of who you are without the need for outside approval or acceptance, or sod off.

The bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, do you disagree with that? I don't see any bible condemnation over being Mexican.

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

Now weddings have to do with sexual acts. Good gawd, next you'll be saying (on procedural grounds of course ) that couple who cannot bear children cannot get married

Most cultures count consummation as part of the wedding process, several require witnesses if not viewing, at least in earshot.

Good, now move to those cultures

 

[Dante]

A baker has no stake in a wedding, no role, no anything. Form of expression? What, now bakers are expressing support for weddings? When they sell other cakes what are they expressing and being part of? It;s a silly argument.

Bakers sell other cakes to gays. Do they know what gays do with cakes? Some gays MIGHT be using the cakes during sex. If a gay couple uses a cake during a sexual act, has the Christian offended his god because he participated in a sexual act?

Who cares? The real point is the government shouldn't be forcing people to decide between their morals and their economic well being over a freaking wedding cake, a non-vital, easily replaceable service.

Morals? What morals? Selling a cake involves morals? What about guns? What about wedding rings? What about anything people sell?

your arguments (supposed procedural arguments ) are at best, specious

 

[mdk]

I can't speak for anyone else but on my wedding night I was far too exhausted (also drunk) to have sex. lol.

 

[bripat9643]

Who put you or the queers in charge of deciding what their job is?

They picked thier job, dumbass.

Again, you don't get to decide what the responsibilities of their jobs are, dumbass.

Yes, we do. Capitalism is regulated. Time to grow up now pee boy.

You're thinking of fascism. Capitalism isn't regulated.

Hah! Try again! Capitalism is constantly regulated for its own good.

As I already explained, capitalism isn't regulated. Fascism is.

 

[martybegan]

Lot of qualifiers there, and if a town has only one baker, and that baker isn't a fan of gays, do you really think the town as a whole is a fan of gays?

I misspell it because I don't buy the bullshit in most of these suits when it comes to how damaged these people felt. Instead if a quantifiable economic damage, they have to come up with how pained they are by being "oppressed" by finding another baker. Sorry, no sympathy here. Either be proud of who you are without the need for outside approval or acceptance, or sod off.

The bible is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, do you disagree with that? I don't see any bible condemnation over being Mexican.

So, it's okay for small town Gays to be repressed?

And as to bullshit, consider this: if those bakers were in fear of the status of their immortal soul by serving Gays and therefore associating with sinners, why don't those same paranoid bakers thoroughly morally vet each and every customer? They may be baking a cake for an adulterer or a thief or someone who does not honor their parents or someone who fails to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or worship some god not seen as the One God or take His name in vain. These sins and more are enumerated in the Ten Commandments, unlike homosexuality.

If the souls of these bigoted wedding vendors is in such great peril, should they then take the offensive homosexual to a place outside the walls of town and stone them to death as commanded in the Bible? Should the town high school have a football program? They are touching the skin of a dead pig, thus making them unclean. Should Notre Dame have a football program?

There are plenty of sins and plenty of sinners. Why is it still okay to condemn and repress homosexuals while excusing all the others?

1. In a free society its not up to you to be the moral compass for someone else. The fact you have to go with argumentum ad abusrdum as well shows the general weakness of your points.

2. A wedding is a celebration, a celebration in the case of a same sex marriage is a celebration of said marriage, and by proxy, homosexual acts, done by people willingly. Find me a murder and an adulterer that gets a cake to celebrate that, and informs the baker of this, and then goes ahead and bakes the cake anyway, and you may have a point.

Now weddings have to do with sexual acts. Good gawd, next you'll be saying (on procedural grounds of course ) that couple who cannot bear children cannot get married

Most cultures count consummation as part of the wedding process, several require witnesses if not viewing, at least in earshot.

Good, now move to those cultures

Just shows you can't deal with people who disagree with you.

I ain't goin anywhere, Dainty.