Ron Paul supporters, what do you disagree with Ron Paul on?

[WatertheTree]

As far as SS, Paul's compromise on that is perfect. Allow citizens to opt out of the program. You pay no FICA tax, and you receive no benefits. You keep your money and invest it in your retirement how you see fit.

@ the fact that you call that a 'compromise'.

That is a compromise. I can live with that. I am not ignorant that my opinion on social security is biased from 16 years of paying into it.

 

[manifold]

The poor and many middle class don't have much disposable income to open a private retirement account.

The markets, while volatile, still present the largest rate of return with an annualized rate of roughly 10% over the last 25 years, which includes the market's most volatile time periods.

As people educate themselves more, they will prefer to have that money to invest how they see fit, if they truly do care about having a retirement and not having to work at 70 years old.

The conundrum is how many people will be willing to educate themselves and take that chance, and how many would prefer to let the government do the work?

I don't see any logical reason to assume anything specific either way at this point.

I just know that at a bare minimum, it can be expected that people will opt out and liabilities will decrease.

What's the alternative? Keep raising the retirement age until people die before taking benefits?

I still say the opt out percentage among the self-employed would be close to 100%. Do you disagree?

 

[JWBooth]

I have my doubts about an abrupt shift to hard money.

 

[manifold]

I still say the opt out percentage among the self-employed would be close to 100%. Do you disagree?

Not to mention that employers would encourage their employees to opt out so they don't have to match. Honestly, I think it's incredibly naive to believe it can last at all if it's not compulsory. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about something that's never going to happen anyway Paulie.

 

[WatertheTree]

The poor and many middle class don't have much disposable income to open a private retirement account.

The markets, while volatile, still present the largest rate of return with an annualized rate of roughly 10% over the last 25 years, which includes the market's most volatile time periods.

As people educate themselves more, they will prefer to have that money to invest how they see fit, if they truly do care about having a retirement and not having to work at 70 years old.

The conundrum is how many people will be willing to educate themselves and take that chance, and how many would prefer to let the government do the work?

I don't see any logical reason to assume anything specific either way at this point.

I just know that at a bare minimum, it can be expected that people will opt out and liabilities will decrease.

What's the alternative? Keep raising the retirement age until people die before taking benefits?

I still say the opt out percentage among the self-employed would be close to 100%. Do you disagree?

I think the opt out percentage would be 100% for anyone self employed. I also think it would be 100% for anyone not in poverty.

 

[LibertyForAll]

The poor and many middle class don't have much disposable income to open a private retirement account.

The markets, while volatile, still present the largest rate of return with an annualized rate of roughly 10% over the last 25 years, which includes the market's most volatile time periods.

As people educate themselves more, they will prefer to have that money to invest how they see fit, if they truly do care about having a retirement and not having to work at 70 years old.

The conundrum is how many people will be willing to educate themselves and take that chance, and how many would prefer to let the government do the work?

I don't see any logical reason to assume anything specific either way at this point.

I just know that at a bare minimum, it can be expected that people will opt out and liabilities will decrease.

What's the alternative? Keep raising the retirement age until people die before taking benefits?

One thing to take note of is the changing life expectancy. There was an article recently that said that the first person to live to 150 has already been born. Changes in nanotechnology could possibly make us nearly immortal within the next 50 years. This may sound like science fiction but it is very real. That being said the money I pay in I may never see because I may never retire. If I am as healthy as I am right now at 65 I see no reason to retire. As of right now I doubt I will have the money to ever retire since my two little boys will be in college around that time. I am just hoping I can stay healthy enough. Part of the problem I think now is that people are living longer and drawing on it for longer periods of time. I would expect the minimum age to change at some point to help minimize that impact.

 

[Paulie]

The poor and many middle class don't have much disposable income to open a private retirement account.

The markets, while volatile, still present the largest rate of return with an annualized rate of roughly 10% over the last 25 years, which includes the market's most volatile time periods.

As people educate themselves more, they will prefer to have that money to invest how they see fit, if they truly do care about having a retirement and not having to work at 70 years old.

The conundrum is how many people will be willing to educate themselves and take that chance, and how many would prefer to let the government do the work?

I don't see any logical reason to assume anything specific either way at this point.

I just know that at a bare minimum, it can be expected that people will opt out and liabilities will decrease.

What's the alternative? Keep raising the retirement age until people die before taking benefits?

I still say the opt out percentage among the self-employed would be close to 100%. Do you disagree?

I would probably only agree because of the fact that as a business owner, you are educated about finances and know how to make your money work for you.

Which makes my case, because the point of opting out is not to have 6% of income to buy a TV or put towards a nicer car or whatever, it's to be able to get the most out of your money for your retirement.

I'm curious though...If you think that allowing for opt outs would cause the program to die and that's why you don't want that to be allowed, why would you opt out?

 

[manifold]

The poor and many middle class don't have much disposable income to open a private retirement account.

The markets, while volatile, still present the largest rate of return with an annualized rate of roughly 10% over the last 25 years, which includes the market's most volatile time periods.

As people educate themselves more, they will prefer to have that money to invest how they see fit, if they truly do care about having a retirement and not having to work at 70 years old.

The conundrum is how many people will be willing to educate themselves and take that chance, and how many would prefer to let the government do the work?

I don't see any logical reason to assume anything specific either way at this point.

I just know that at a bare minimum, it can be expected that people will opt out and liabilities will decrease.

What's the alternative? Keep raising the retirement age until people die before taking benefits?

I still say the opt out percentage among the self-employed would be close to 100%. Do you disagree?

I would probably only agree because of the fact that as a business owner, you are educated about finances and know how to make your money work for you.

Which makes my case, because the point of opting out is not to have 6% of income to buy a TV or put towards a nicer car or whatever, it's to be able to get the most out of your money for your retirement.

I'm curious though...If you think that allowing for opt outs would cause the program to die and that's why you don't want that to be allowed, why would you opt out?

I never said I didn't want that allowed. I just said it would kill the program and is therefore hardly a 'compromise'.

If business owners (self-employed included) still had to pay the matching component even for employees who opt-out, that would be a compromise that wouldn't kill it.

 

[dblack]

Policywise, abortion is my biggest beef with Paul. I don't agree with his take on evolution, but as it has nothing at all to do with policy, I don't know why it matters.

 

[Bern80]

I honestly can't find much I disagree with him on. He has opinions I disagree with on things like homosexuality and abortion, but he also knows it isn't the Federal government's place to legislate on those things.

I'm not sure about moving to the gold standard. I think that could create some real problems.

 

[Paulie]

I still say the opt out percentage among the self-employed would be close to 100%. Do you disagree?

I would probably only agree because of the fact that as a business owner, you are educated about finances and know how to make your money work for you.

Which makes my case, because the point of opting out is not to have 6% of income to buy a TV or put towards a nicer car or whatever, it's to be able to get the most out of your money for your retirement.

I'm curious though...If you think that allowing for opt outs would cause the program to die and that's why you don't want that to be allowed, why would you opt out?

I never said I didn't want that allowed. I just said it would kill the program and is therefore hardly a 'compromise'.

If business owners (self-employed included) still had to pay the matching component even for employees who opt-out, that would be a compromise that wouldn't kill it.

Ok, I can see your point. I guess "compromise" was the wrong choice in words. My ultimate goal would be weening the nation off the program anyway, so in my case a compromise is irrelevant.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca10BuVvWxQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player]Ostrich - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Paulie]

Oh look, Grampa came to another Paul thread and contributed nothing yet again.

What's next, Ravi goes to chick-fil-a?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm just having some fun. Pull your shorts outa yer ass.

 

[Paulie]

I'm just having some fun. Pull your shorts outa yer ass.

You know what was fun? Watching every candidate who's ass you jammed your finger in along the way either drop out or finish horribly in the first event.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm just having some fun. Pull your shorts outa yer ass.

You know what was fun? Watching every candidate who's ass you jammed your finger in along the way either drop out or finish horribly in the first event.

I only threw major support to Cain. I casually support Newt but really don't care as long as Obama is ousted.

But if the mud is where you want to play we can certainly go there. I have thus far refrained from my usual Paul hate.

 

[manifold]

I'm just having some fun. Pull your shorts outa yer ass.

You know what was fun? Watching every candidate who's ass you jammed your finger in along the way either drop out or finish horribly in the first event.

I only threw major support to Cain. I casually support Newt but really don't care as long as Obama is ousted.

But if the mud is where you want to play we can certainly go there. I have thus far refrained from my usual Paul hate.

Prepare to be disappointed.

 

[truthsaga]

I haven't heard him address this, but I wish he would allow illegal immigrants who work and do not receive government subsidies to be allowed to live their lives. No amnesty, but just the freedom to work hard and continue with their lives here. The high paying jobs we are losing is coming from over seas, from better educated and qualified techs/engineers, not service sector laborers.

I can't tell you how many times I have driven down the 280 or 87 and seen a banner that says "Que es Mas Importante, Amnesty or Liberty?" or "Libertad por Todos - Ron Paul 2012." It makes you feel like the message of freedom unites us around a common banner.

 

[Paulie]

I'm just having some fun. Pull your shorts outa yer ass.

You know what was fun? Watching every candidate who's ass you jammed your finger in along the way either drop out or finish horribly in the first event.

I only threw major support to Cain. I casually support Newt but really don't care as long as Obama is ousted.

But if the mud is where you want to play we can certainly go there. I have thus far refrained from my usual Paul hate.

You really need to pull your shorts outta your ass, bro.

 

[manifold]

You know what was fun? Watching every candidate who's ass you jammed your finger in along the way either drop out or finish horribly in the first event.

I only threw major support to Cain. I casually support Newt but really don't care as long as Obama is ousted.

But if the mud is where you want to play we can certainly go there. I have thus far refrained from my usual Paul hate.

You really need to pull your shorts outta your ass, bro.

But it's the only thing keeping him from shitting his brains out.