Restuarant has "No Guns Allowed" Sign...gun owners don't bring guns...the robber did though...

[2aguy]

"Restuarant has "No Guns Allowed" Sign...gun owners don't bring guns...the robber did though..."

This fails as a fallacy, there is no 'evidence' that businesses who disallow firearms on their property are more 'prone to crime.'

Nor is there any 'evidence' that a patron carrying a concealed firearm would be able to 'prevent' a crime from occurring; this is all unfounded inference on your part.

Citizens should conceal carry for their own self-defense, not to act in the capacity of 'law enforcement.'

This fails as a fallacy since no one has made the argument that people with concealed carry permits should act as law enforcement.

 

[hangover]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

 

[rightwinger]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

 

[M14 Shooter]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Funny how this never, ever happens.

 

[2aguy]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

You really have no clue what you are talking about.....it doesn't happen that way...for example, at the gabby giffords shooting, there were 2 concealed carry people there, with their weapons out and ready to shoot.....neither one did....why? Because the didn't have to.....

There was a mall shooting right after Sandy Hook that got no attention...why....? Because the concealed carrier had his gun out and trained on the shooter.....but didn't shoot because of the people behind the shooter, luckily, the shooter saw the concealed carrier and like most of these guys, when he saw the good guy with the gun he took his own life....

YOu really should actually study this topic....then you would have a clue about it.......

 

[2aguy]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

 

[Brain357]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

 

[2aguy]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

 

[Brain357]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it. You aren't going to be robbed while armed. And once you pull that gun you just might be shot. I have posted that link with a lot of shot defenders. The vast majority of criminals want money, not your life.

And of course carrying opens you up to the 17000 accidental shooting each year.

 

[2aguy]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it. You aren't going to be robbed while armed. And once you pull that gun you just might be shot. I have posted that link with a lot of shot defenders. The vast majority of criminals want money, not your life.

And of course carrying opens you up to the 17000 accidental shooting each year.

and those who drive cars have 2,300,000 accidents a year....with over 32,000 deaths in car related accidents....guns....

17,000 non fatal accidents.....6-700 accidental gun fatalities.....

What about people who drive their cars over people intentionally Brain....?

 

[2aguy]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it. You aren't going to be robbed while armed. And once you pull that gun you just might be shot. I have posted that link with a lot of shot defenders. The vast majority of criminals want money, not your life.

And of course carrying opens you up to the 17000 accidental shooting each year.

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it.

Well....that is where we differ......you are not obligated to use it.....and are really only allowed to use it if you decide to if their is a reasonble fear of death or serious injury to you or another person....

Me....if I am in the middle of a robbery and I don't think the guy will shoot or hurt anyone....I am not going to draw my weapon....if he starts shooting...or wants to put people somewhere where he might kill them....like the Brown's chicken killing....then I might draw....

It depends.....but that is the thing....when you have a gun you have options........the violent criminal doesn't get the final say on wether you live or die or the people around you live or die.....

That is what carrying a gun affords you...

YOu don't have to shoot...you don't have to draw the weapon even........

 

[Brain357]

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it. You aren't going to be robbed while armed. And once you pull that gun you just might be shot. I have posted that link with a lot of shot defenders. The vast majority of criminals want money, not your life.

And of course carrying opens you up to the 17000 accidental shooting each year.

and those who drive cars have 2,300,000 accidents a year....with over 32,000 deaths in car related accidents....guns....

17,000 non fatal accidents.....6-700 accidental gun fatalities.....

What about people who drive their cars over people intentionally Brain....?

Again cars are needed, guns are not. Comparing the two is silly. Cars are used by over 200 million drivers 365 days a year. Even using your fantasy numbers guns are only used 1.6 million times yearly. That the fatality numbers are so close shows how much more dangerous guns are. And again they aren't needed. They disappear tomorrow and most don't even notice.

 

[Brain357]

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it. You aren't going to be robbed while armed. And once you pull that gun you just might be shot. I have posted that link with a lot of shot defenders. The vast majority of criminals want money, not your life.

And of course carrying opens you up to the 17000 accidental shooting each year.

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it.

Well....that is where we differ......you are not obligated to use it.....and are really only allowed to use it if you decide to if their is a reasonble fear of death or serious injury to you or another person....

Me....if I am in the middle of a robbery and I don't think the guy will shoot or hurt anyone....I am not going to draw my weapon....if he starts shooting...or wants to put people somewhere where he might kill them....like the Brown's chicken killing....then I might draw....

It depends.....but that is the thing....when you have a gun you have options........the violent criminal doesn't get the final say on wether you live or die or the people around you live or die.....

That is what carrying a gun affords you...

YOu don't have to shoot...you don't have to draw the weapon even........

And if the robbers frisk you for valuables?

 

[2aguy]

No Brain.....you take 1 year and add up the bodies....

Cars.....2,300,000 non fatal injuries
Guns....17,000 non fatal injuries

Cars....over 32,000 deaths
Guns...6-700 deaths....

that is how you compute the figure....each year cars kill more people even though there are more guns in the country than cars...right?

 

[2aguy]

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

When you have a gun you often still die like the gun shop owners. Pulling a gun on them makes them more likely to shoot.

Brain....if you are actually in the situation you have to evaluate it as it happens....there are times where unarmed victims are simply murdered, either because the criminal doesn't want a witness or because they want to kill someone as part of the act.......so having a gun gives you a say in how the situation ends......you aren't just putting the decision of wether you live or die in the hands of a criminal you know nothing about.....

The girl who was raped 50 ft. from the college police station....that criminal went on to rape at least 2 more women and killed the 3rd.........none of these women were armed, but he was.....none of the women had a say in which one of them was the one he decided to murder.....

And Brain....when you actually read these stories....in many of them, the criminal runs away rather than fight when the victim pulls a weapon....I have seen countless videos of armed criminals running away when confronted by armed citizens.....many times having started the encounter aiming the gun at the victim.....and they still run away.......rather than shooting....

It all depends on the situation.....and if you don't have a gun.....you have no say at all in how that situation turns out......the guy who said he will kill you if you don't give him what he wants is the one who gets to decide wether you live or die....

And that seems to be what you want....your living or dying given over to a criminal.....

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it. You aren't going to be robbed while armed. And once you pull that gun you just might be shot. I have posted that link with a lot of shot defenders. The vast majority of criminals want money, not your life.

And of course carrying opens you up to the 17000 accidental shooting each year.

I think if you are carrying you are pretty obligated to use it.

Well....that is where we differ......you are not obligated to use it.....and are really only allowed to use it if you decide to if their is a reasonble fear of death or serious injury to you or another person....

Me....if I am in the middle of a robbery and I don't think the guy will shoot or hurt anyone....I am not going to draw my weapon....if he starts shooting...or wants to put people somewhere where he might kill them....like the Brown's chicken killing....then I might draw....

It depends.....but that is the thing....when you have a gun you have options........the violent criminal doesn't get the final say on wether you live or die or the people around you live or die.....

That is what carrying a gun affords you...

YOu don't have to shoot...you don't have to draw the weapon even........

And if the robbers frisk you for valuables?

then you have a choice......I wouldn't surrender the weapon....he might use it to kill someone then or later.....if he just has people hand over their wallets, then I might not draw the weapon...

 

[Brain357]

No Brain.....you take 1 year and add up the bodies....

Cars.....2,300,000 non fatal injuries
Guns....17,000 non fatal injuries

Cars....over 32,000 deaths
Guns...6-700 deaths....

that is how you compute the figure....each year cars kill more people even though there are more guns in the country than cars...right?

No you don't. So nukes aren't more dangerous than cars? Nobody is killed with nukes. I guess we should stop bugging iran, they already have cars.

 

[rightwinger]

Imagine if it would have been in Texas where everyone caries a gun. A shoot out with the customers and the robber. So instead of just losing money, there's a half dozen dead....but they probably got the robber. Yea!

Thats all they care about

Just giving them the money and sending them on the way is a sign of weakness to the gun nuts

Better innocent people end up dead than a bad guy gets away

oh...moron......that is exactly what would be called for in most robberies....except of course when the robbers have the money...and then order everyone into the back of the Brown's chicken, march them into the cooler, and execute all 7 employees........


see...that is what you don't get moron......not all robbers have impulse control.....or want living witnesses.....

And when you don't have a gun...the criminal gets to decide if you live or die...and you have no say in the matter...

If you have the gun...moron.....then you can hand over your money, and if it escalates from their...you have an option to deal with it....

moron....

The mere act of you drawing your gun excalates the situation and makes a criminal more likely to fire than less likely