Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[Sixties Fan]

T
That would be like saying send the Jews back to Europe so they can settle among those from whom they are in distinguishable.

Basicaly Team Israel seems to be promoting uprooting Palestinians from their homeland. How convenient.

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that came from Europe share a common European culture. Given the heavy handed approach of denying identity in order to get rid of people why not?

Now don't you fall for this "Jews are Europeans" crap and start repeating it.

The common culture the Jewish people have in Israel is the Jewish culture. That's what binds them together and makes them the Jewish people.

Judaism, its history, culture, everything is what has always bound all Jews together.

Israel is the place where they have always belonged, anytime they lived away from that land.

Is it necessary to deny Palestinians their identity in order to have this?

Again I will ask:

What is the Palestinian Identity?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that came from Europe share a common European culture. Given the heavy handed approach of denying identity in order to get rid of people why not?

Now don't you fall for this "Jews are Europeans" crap and start repeating it.

The common culture the Jewish people have in Israel is the Jewish culture. That's what binds them together and makes them the Jewish people.

Judaism, its history, culture, everything is what has always bound all Jews together.

Israel is the place where they have always belonged, anytime they lived away from that land.

Is it necessary to deny Palestinians their identity in order to have this?

Again I will ask:

What is the Palestinian Identity?

Corrupt terrorists

 

[Sixties Fan]

T
That would be like saying send the Jews back to Europe so they can settle among those from whom they are in distinguishable.

Basicaly Team Israel seems to be promoting uprooting Palestinians from their homeland. How convenient.

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that came from Europe share a common European culture. Given the heavy handed approach of denying identity in order to get rid of people why not?

Now don't you fall for this "Jews are Europeans" crap and start repeating it.

The common culture the Jewish people have in Israel is the Jewish culture. That's what binds them together and makes them the Jewish people.

Judaism, its history, culture, everything is what has always bound all Jews together.

Israel is the place where they have always belonged, anytime they lived away from that land.

Is it necessary to deny Palestinians their identity in order to have this?

And again, you do not seem to realize that the ones denying an identity to the others, are the Arab Palestinians who deny even a Jewish existence on the land of Israel, regardless of all the history, archeology, etc which continues to exist on the land.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I was answering Rocco on the other thread and this is what I wrote:

The Arab Palestinian identity is that they value death, more than they value life.
That is what has been taught to them since they lost in 1948 and 1967. It is their curriculum.
--------

That is why so many are so willing to die for what they believe is Allah's command.
They must give their lives for the cause.
What is the cause? Taking back land once owned by Muslims, any Muslims. Israel is the only piece of the Mandate which is not in Muslim hands.

And which is why I would say that there really is no difference between one Arab Muslim identity and another. They all teach the same, and behave the same way.

Many Muslims have moved to Europe and are working slowly in order make any part of Europe part of Islam.

The mentality is the same, the identity is the same.
The world is Muslim, it belongs to Islam and some day all will be Muslims.

I will ask again:

What is the difference between Arab Palestinians from Egyptian, Lebanese and other Arabs, except for the land they are standing on?

Where was all the Palestinian art, poetry, etc, distinct from all other Arab art and poetry, before WWII?
For sure they now have the Palestinian "Empty" Museum.
They do have all the posters, poems, art, etc depicting what has happened to them since 1920.

But before?
Where was their unity, their culture, their leaders, etc, etc which distinguished them from all other Arabs and Muslims? Distinguished them from the Ottoman Turks?

Do Arabs who came from all over the Africa, Europe and Middle East at the time of the Mandate, suddenly become Palestinians because they have found themselves in the area at the time ?

Do they not come from Egypt, Arabia, Libya, Bosnia, etc, and is that not their primary identity, as so many Arab Palestinians will tell us?

They do have an identity. First and foremost, they are Arabs. Then Muslims, then they were caught in an Arab power struggle between those who wanted to live in peace with the Jews on their own ancient homeland, and those who did not.

What is the Palestinian Identity, even today?

ALL one has to look at is the Palestinian Museum in Ramallah, I referred to above.

WHY does it continue to be empty?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

T

That would have been the best solution, yes -- for the Arabs who had no identity other than as Arab to have settled with the Arabs with whom they were indistinguishable.

That would be like saying send the Jews back to Europe so they can settle among those from whom they are in distinguishable.

Basicaly Team Israel seems to be promoting uprooting Palestinians from their homeland. How convenient.

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that came from Europe share a common European culture. Given the heavy handed approach of denying identity in order to get rid of people why not?

T
That would be like saying send the Jews back to Europe so they can settle among those from whom they are in distinguishable.

Basicaly Team Israel seems to be promoting uprooting Palestinians from their homeland. How convenient.

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that

Now don't you fall for this "Jews are Europeans" crap and start repeating it.

The common culture the Jewish people have in Israel is the Jewish culture. That's what binds them together and makes them the Jewish people.[/ is a common theme on the pro-terrorist propaganda sites.

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that came from Europe share a common European culture. Given the heavy handed approach of denying identity in order to get rid of people why not?

Now don't you fall for this "Jews are Europeans" crap and start repeating it.

The common culture the Jewish people have in Israel is the Jewish culture. That's what binds them together and makes them the Jewish people.

Judaism, its history, culture, everything is what has always bound all Jews together.

Israel is the place where they have always belonged, anytime they lived away from that land.

When people fill their heads with the propaganda they find at pro- terrorist and antisemitic websites, this Jews as Europeans theme is one they pick up.

Offering this theme says a lot about a person's internet habits.

What are you talking about?

I wrote in plain English.

The theme you offered is only found at terrorist and neo Nazi type sites.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If the Kurds were in Gaza and Palestinians were in Turkey people would scream that Israel is oppressing the Kurds. No one would give a F*CK about Palestinians (see Lebanon). Its because Israel has Jews that people care. Their Jew hate is so damn obvious.

Supporting the Palestinian' right to identity and self determination isn't Jew hating.

Then explain why no one complains the atrocities in Lebanon vs Palestinians?

I 100% disagree with you. It’s all about Jew hate.

1 100% disagree with you. It is perfectly possible to believe both Palestinians and Jews have a right to their identity, to self determination and to the land being squabbled over without hating either one.

As to why they dont care about what happens elsewhere.. Well you tell me. The same can be said about Team Israel. Why do they focus on what the Arabs are doing to Jews but have nothing to say about what the Buddhists are doing to the Rohinga in Myannar?

I DO think the IP conflict gives hardcore antisemites a "legitimate" platform for their hate...they can pretend it isnt about Jews but Zionists. Which falls apart when they application apply different standards to For Jews than for others.

I think the same applies to some who seem to support Israel because they hate Muslims. There too, different standards are applied.

You just answered my questions with a question again. Why doesn’t anyone talk about how Lebanon treats the same Palestinians? Israel is a tiny only Jewish nation. They of course worry about themselves. 99% of Jews are Zionists. Anti Zionism is Anti Semitism. Anyone who says differently is a liar.

Why doesn’t anyone talk about how Lebanon treats the same Palestinians?

The Palestinians are foreigners in Lebanon.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

If the Kurds were in Gaza and Palestinians were in Turkey people would scream that Israel is oppressing the Kurds. No one would give a F*CK about Palestinians (see Lebanon). Its because Israel has Jews that people care. Their Jew hate is so damn obvious.

Supporting the Palestinian' right to identity and self determination isn't Jew hating.

Then explain why no one complains the atrocities in Lebanon vs Palestinians?

I 100% disagree with you. It’s all about Jew hate.

1 100% disagree with you. It is perfectly possible to believe both Palestinians and Jews have a right to their identity, to self determination and to the land being squabbled over without hating either one.

As to why they dont care about what happens elsewhere.. Well you tell me. The same can be said about Team Israel. Why do they focus on what the Arabs are doing to Jews but have nothing to say about what the Buddhists are doing to the Rohinga in Myannar?

I DO think the IP conflict gives hardcore antisemites a "legitimate" platform for their hate...they can pretend it isnt about Jews but Zionists. Which falls apart when they application apply different standards to For Jews than for others.

I think the same applies to some who seem to support Israel because they hate Muslims. There too, different standards are applied.

You just answered my questions with a question again. Why doesn’t anyone talk about how Lebanon treats the same Palestinians? Israel is a tiny only Jewish nation. They of course worry about themselves. 99% of Jews are Zionists. Anti Zionism is Anti Semitism. Anyone who says differently is a liar.

Why doesn’t anyone talk about how Lebanon treats the same Palestinians?

The Palestinians are foreigners in Lebanon.

Ding ding ding. They are squatters in Israel too.

 

[Shusha]

You can make a valid argument that while Jews share common culture based in Judiasm,

Error #1. The Jewish people share a common culture, history and heritage which is based, only in part, on a shared and unique religion. The culture, customs and traditions exist outside and alongside the religion.

they are also a diverse population from around the world

...because they were ethically cleansed from their own historical, indigenous lands and who managed to avoid assimilate and retain their own culture, customs and traditions over the space of 3000 years in Diaspora.

who share as much if not more in some cases with those cultures than with each other.

Is there some sort of problem with having more than one cultural heritage? How is this relevant? It comes perilously close to the canard of "its just a religion" which delegitimizes the Jewish people, their identity and their history.

French Jews consider themselves French.

French Jews ARE French -- as in they are nationals of France. They also have some cultural attributes - notably language - of being French. Again, so what? This slides by the "are Jews more loyal to Israel or their country". Why would the adoption of another culture in any way change their Jewish identity. Are Palestinian Americans no longer Palestinian?

Jews from Arabicized cultures are considered Arab.

Not by the Jews themselves.

If you say a Palestinian could be dumped in Syria and no one could tell the difference...

WE are not the ones saying that. That originates with the people themselves. They do not consider themselves different from Syrians and Jordanians. They consider themselves one people. That is even evident in the various charters and basic laws.

The people here who work very hard to deny the Palestinians their identity are no different from their ideological opposites who put their energy into denying Jews their unique identity.

I disagree. There is a very great difference between denying the Jewish identity and acknowledging the emergence of the Palestinian identity at a certain place and in a certain time. Especially as this reflects the expressions of the Palestinian people themselves.

The question I have to ask is this : why do both sides view this as a zero sum equation where one sides identity has to be demolished in order to "win"?

Both sides do not view it as a zero sum equation. Only one side does that. That is why things like the withdrawal from Gaza can happen.

 

[Coyote]

False equivalency. No other mostly Jewish nations.

Doesnt matter if you are promoting expulsions ... Jews that came from Europe share a common European culture. Given the heavy handed approach of denying identity in order to get rid of people why not?

Now don't you fall for this "Jews are Europeans" crap and start repeating it.

The common culture the Jewish people have in Israel is the Jewish culture. That's what binds them together and makes them the Jewish people.

Judaism, its history, culture, everything is what has always bound all Jews together.

Israel is the place where they have always belonged, anytime they lived away from that land.

Is it necessary to deny Palestinians their identity in order to have this?

What identity? People who elected Hamas to represent them?

No.

Their identity as Palestinians.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I have indicated no such thing. Stop lying.

I fear you have been hacked, then, Coyote, because as all the good posters in this thread can see, the Islamist poster called Coyote DID say so right here:

Trump freezes Palestinian Authorities BANK ACCOUNTS

Are there two of you running around?

 

[Shusha]

Palestine's Basic Law:

Title One
Article 1
Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation. Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve.


Isn't self-identification an essential part of self-determination? Shouldn't the Arab Palestinian people be permitted to self-identify?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Palestine's Basic Law:

Title One
Article 1
Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation. Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve.


Isn't self-identification an essential part of self-determination? Shouldn't the Arab Palestinian people be permitted to self-identify?

There is a famous paper from the late 40s written by King Abdul called "as the Arabs see the Jews". It contained a long list of grievances which consisted of the usual half truths, omissions and fabrications we are all familiar with today, but the striking part of it is that not once in his long diatribe does he mention any "Palestinians".

Gee. I wonder why?

 

[Coyote]

You can make a valid argument that while Jews share common culture based in Judiasm,

Error #1. The Jewish people share a common culture, history and heritage which is based, only in part, on a shared and unique religion. The culture, customs and traditions exist outside and alongside the religion.

they are also a diverse population from around the world

...because they were ethically cleansed from their own historical, indigenous lands and who managed to avoid assimilate and retain their own culture, customs and traditions over the space of 3000 years in Diaspora.

who share as much if not more in some cases with those cultures than with each other.

Is there some sort of problem with having more than one cultural heritage? How is this relevant? It comes perilously close to the canard of "its just a religion" which delegitimizes the Jewish people, their identity and their history.

French Jews consider themselves French.

French Jews ARE French -- as in they are nationals of France. They also have some cultural attributes - notably language - of being French. Again, so what? This slides by the "are Jews more loyal to Israel or their country". Why would the adoption of another culture in any way change their Jewish identity. Are Palestinian Americans no longer Palestinian?

Jews from Arabicized cultures are considered Arab.

Not by the Jews themselves.

If you say a Palestinian could be dumped in Syria and no one could tell the difference...

WE are not the ones saying that. That originates with the people themselves. They do not consider themselves different from Syrians and Jordanians. They consider themselves one people. That is even evident in the various charters and basic laws.

The people here who work very hard to deny the Palestinians their identity are no different from their ideological opposites who put their energy into denying Jews their unique identity.

I disagree. There is a very great difference between denying the Jewish identity and acknowledging the emergence of the Palestinian identity at a certain place and in a certain time. Especially as this reflects the expressions of the Palestinian people themselves.

The question I have to ask is this : why do both sides view this as a zero sum equation where one sides identity has to be demolished in order to "win"?

Both sides do not view it as a zero sum equation. Only one side does that. That is why things like the withdrawal from Gaza can happen.

Much of that can be applied to the Palestinians but isn’t. I have no issue with recognizing Jewish identity and rights AND Palestinian identity and rights, and if you think otherwise after years of posting then I am sorry.

Read this thread and tell me WHO is recognizing the identity of the other.

Sixties?
Dogmaphobe?
Member?
Independent?
Rylah?

There is a very clear double standard at play here, where in order to validate Jewish rights Palestinian identity must be marginalized and the must be turned into a fictional people who can never gain an identity because of their beginnings. That of course makes it easier to dismiss them and their rights and support expelling them to other Arab countries.

It is not just team Palestine that has problems accepting the right to identity of the other. As far as some here are concerned they are just Arab Muslims.

And no one seems able to define the magical point where they become accepted as a people.

 

[Shusha]

I have no issue with recognizing Jewish identity and rights AND Palestinian identity and rights, and if you think otherwise after years of posting then I am sorry.

Ditto.

 

[Coyote]

Palestine's Basic Law:

Title One
Article 1
Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation. Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve.


Isn't self-identification an essential part of self-determination? Shouldn't the Arab Palestinian people be permitted to self-identify?

Oh...let’s see....Poland, France, Germany, Italy....identify themselves as part the European Union. I guess that means there is no Italian or German etc identity.

 

[Coyote]

Palestine's Basic Law:

Title One
Article 1
Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation. Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve.


Isn't self-identification an essential part of self-determination? Shouldn't the Arab Palestinian people be permitted to self-identify?

There is a famous paper from the late 40s written by King Abdul called "as the Arabs see the Jews". It contained a long list of grievances which consisted of the usual half truths, omissions and fabrications we are all familiar with today, but the striking part of it is that not once in his long diatribe does he mention any "Palestinians".

Gee. I wonder why?

When does a people become a people?

 

[Coyote]

I have no issue with recognizing Jewish identity and rights AND Palestinian identity and rights, and if you think otherwise after years of posting then I am sorry.

Ditto.

You seem to be arguing against recognizing Palestinian identity and agreeing with those who deny it.

 

[Coyote]

I have indicated no such thing. Stop lying.

I fear you have been hacked, then, Coyote, because as all the good posters in this thread can see, the Islamist poster called Coyote DID say so right here:

Trump freezes Palestinian Authorities BANK ACCOUNTS

Are there two of you running around?

You are such a liar. You are taking what I said in relation to AID and using it to imply I feel Palestinians do nothing wrong in any context. You dishonest piece of shit. I should not be surprised.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You can make a valid argument that while Jews share common culture based in Judiasm,

Error #1. The Jewish people share a common culture, history and heritage which is based, only in part, on a shared and unique religion. The culture, customs and traditions exist outside and alongside the religion.

they are also a diverse population from around the world

...because they were ethically cleansed from their own historical, indigenous lands and who managed to avoid assimilate and retain their own culture, customs and traditions over the space of 3000 years in Diaspora.

who share as much if not more in some cases with those cultures than with each other.

Is there some sort of problem with having more than one cultural heritage? How is this relevant? It comes perilously close to the canard of "its just a religion" which delegitimizes the Jewish people, their identity and their history.

French Jews consider themselves French.

French Jews ARE French -- as in they are nationals of France. They also have some cultural attributes - notably language - of being French. Again, so what? This slides by the "are Jews more loyal to Israel or their country". Why would the adoption of another culture in any way change their Jewish identity. Are Palestinian Americans no longer Palestinian?

Jews from Arabicized cultures are considered Arab.

Not by the Jews themselves.

If you say a Palestinian could be dumped in Syria and no one could tell the difference...

WE are not the ones saying that. That originates with the people themselves. They do not consider themselves different from Syrians and Jordanians. They consider themselves one people. That is even evident in the various charters and basic laws.

The people here who work very hard to deny the Palestinians their identity are no different from their ideological opposites who put their energy into denying Jews their unique identity.

I disagree. There is a very great difference between denying the Jewish identity and acknowledging the emergence of the Palestinian identity at a certain place and in a certain time. Especially as this reflects the expressions of the Palestinian people themselves.

The question I have to ask is this : why do both sides view this as a zero sum equation where one sides identity has to be demolished in order to "win"?

Both sides do not view it as a zero sum equation. Only one side does that. That is why things like the withdrawal from Gaza can happen.

Much of that can be applied to the Palestinians but isn’t. I have no issue with recognizing Jewish identity and rights AND Palestinian identity and rights, and if you think otherwise after years of posting then I am sorry.

Read this thread and tell me WHO is recognizing the identity of the other.

Sixties?
Dogmaphobe?
Member?
Independent?
Rylah?

There is a very clear double standard at play here, where in order to validate Jewish rights Palestinian identity must be marginalized and the must be turned into a fictional people who can never gain an identity because of their beginnings. That of course makes it easier to dismiss them and their rights and support expelling them to other Arab countries.

It is not just team Palestine that has problems accepting the right to identity of the other. As far as some here are concerned they are just Arab Muslims.

And no one seems able to define the magical point where they become accepted as a people.

Talking about "teams" is very childish. This isn't about teams, but about intellectual honesty.

There is a bigger cultural difference between People living in New York and Texas than there is between these "Palestinians" and any other Arabs. They are Arabs. That's what they are. They speak Arabic, follow Arabic culture, and did not think of themselves as anything BUT Arabs until encouraged to do so 50 years ago. Why this is important has been explained to you AD NAUSEUM over the years, but you still cling to your childish blather about "Teams"

700000 Arabs left what is now Israel in 1948. 900,000 Jews were summarily expelled from Arab lands soon thereafter. The invention of these "Palestinians" (and by an Egyptian, no less) is just a way to hoodwink childish people who speak in terms of "teams" into supporting the Arabs by creating the illusion of victimhood.

Intelligent and intellectually honest people see through the ruse.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I have indicated no such thing. Stop lying.

I fear you have been hacked, then, Coyote, because as all the good posters in this thread can see, the Islamist poster called Coyote DID say so right here:

Trump freezes Palestinian Authorities BANK ACCOUNTS

Are there two of you running around?

You are such a liar. You are taking what I said in relation to AID and using it to imply I feel Palestinians do nothing wrong in any context. You dishonest piece of shit. I should not be surprised.

You said they have done nothing wrong so should continue to get aid.

It was as clear cut as all get up.