Report by Judith Curry

[CrusaderFrank]

They are scientific hells angels. They are a damned cult.

 

[Blaster]

Global warming is a myth.

 

[Crick]

At the moment I am much more concerned about super cold weather than warm weather. Heat waves are weather. Sea level rise is very very slow and very very small. I do not expect this to harm the fishes in the sea.

The point is that data plots are scaled to help convey information. Setting scales so that pertinent information is not visible is dingenuous.

 

[Crick]

Global warming is a myth.

The Kindergarten is three doors down on the left.

 

[Blaster]

The Kindergarten is three doors down on the left.

Is that your classroom?

 

[Crick]

Have you ever used a micrometer? Or other scientific instruments?

Why are you making a huge fuss over less than a degree? (C)

I am a degreed engineer Robert. I worked for over 35 years with a group under NATO that conducted accuracy testing on sensor and weapons systems of NATO member-nation navies, ashore and at sea. What do you think?

 

[Blaster]

I am a degreed engineer Robert. I worked for over 35 years with a group under NATO that conducted accuracy testing on sensor and weapons systems of NATO member-nation navies. What do you think?

Liar

 

[Robert W]

The point is that data plots are scaled to help convey information. Setting scales so that pertinent information is not visible is dingenuous.

When I studied Physics, Chemistry. Analytic Geometry, Calculus, Trigonometry, Algebra, never did I vision the day when it was politicians walking all over scientists, that were trying to rule the world using the work of scientists to deceive.

 

[Robert W]

I am a degreed engineer Robert. I worked for over 35 years with a group under NATO that conducted accuracy testing on sensor and weapons systems of NATO member-nation navies. What do you think?

Why then do you attack Professor Lindzen and the many outstanding scientists who do not agree with you at all on much of anything other than engineering? I now respect much more of your claims. But surely you put down degreed professionals all day long.

As an engineer who would do this project for others, what would your graph look like when the T is 2 C and the Time span is 150 years? Would you use a hockey stick?

 

[Crick]

Is that your classroom?

You've got about 5 years of debate to catch up with.

 

[Crick]

When I studied Physics, Chemistry. Analytic Geometry, Calculus, Trigonometry, Algebra, never did I vision the day when it was politicians walking all over scientists, that were trying to rule the world using the work of scientists to deceive.

When you and I were in school, Robert, there was a lot more of that then there is today.

On WHAT are you basing these paranoid delusions?

 

[Blaster]

You've got about 5 years of debate to catch up with.

Climate change is not an important issue to American voters.

 

[Crick]

Why then do you attack Professor Lindzen and the many outstanding scientists who do not agree with you at all on much of anything other than engineering?

Because I believe he is not a good scientist, that his conclusions are based on faulty science and that by supporting deniers, he is putting my children at increased risk.

I now respect much more of your claims. But surely you put down degreed professionals all day long.

You asked if I'd used a micrometer or a scientific instrument. I would not contend that Lindzen had not.

As an engineer who would do this project for others, what would your graph look like when the T is 2 C and the Time span is 150 years? Would you use a hockey stick?

I have made thousands of graphs in my day. We had rules-of-thumb as to scaling. In general, you want to contain all the data (minus outliers) at about 2/3rds the full scale of the graph. If necessary, multiple plots would be produced to show artifacts at different scales.

 

[Crick]

Because I believe he is not a good scientist, that his conclusions are based on faulty science and that by supporting deniers, he is putting my children at increased risk.

You asked if I'd used a micrometer or a scientific instrument. I would not contend that Lindzen had not.

I have made thousands of graphs in my day. We had rules-of-thumb as to scaling. In general, you want to contain all the data (minus outliers) at about 2/3rds the full scale of the graph. If necessary, multiple plots would be produced to show artifacts at different scales.

Any plot of temperature that includes the last 200 years or so is going to be a challenge to scale because the current rise is unprecedented in quite some time. So you've got this vertical spike at one end and to even get it all on the graph, you're going to end up shrinking a lot of the earlier details right out of the picture. I've even recently seen some graphs of the last few hundred thousand years where the left side, the center and the right side of the graph were all at different scales.

Just keep in mind that the idea is to convey information. Not unduly hide anything nor unduly emphasize anything.

 

[Robert W]

I have made thousands of graphs in my day. We had rules-of-thumb as to scaling. In general, you want to contain all the data (minus outliers) at about 2/3rds the full scale of the graph. If necessary, multiple plots would be produced to show artifacts at different scales.

I also read your answer after the above on graphing. We can graph to inform, we can graph to deceive. I think the hockey stick graph is to deceive.

I also read your bit about professor Lindzen. It would benefit you a lot to simply e mail the man. I did and it was very enlightening. And he has never been a stooge of the oil industry.

Here is a thing you do not know about me. Many years back, I was a Job Supervisor for a construction firm that was installing in San Francisco a rectangular shaped, into the ground, shell for a building. We were to trench a perimeter consisting of digging out soil 4 feet wide and with two sides of 24 feet and 2 at 48 feet. This gave the 24x48 feet rectangle and it was 93 feet deep. We had to trench through soils that also dug into water tables so we used a slurry. The Slurry was not our engineers invention, but was copied by them from the Oil Industry. The Company VP told me he wanted me to be his expert on this form of trenching and hired me with the directive to study this and buy books to help me. So i did that. We tested the slurry per the hour. We wanted to be certain the slurry kept the properties we wanted. We were to mix water and Bentonite with some addition of Dense Soda Ash. I understood after my study that over time due to cement contamination issues, the slurry would eventually slowly harden the slurry to more clay like in context.
The engineers had not included this in the job specifications. I was working with another engineer who really was just above me and I informed him that we had to change the formula to add in Bicarbonate of Soda. He denied this and rather pumped in more water. While it would liquify the slurry more, the slurry was not retaining its properties of holding back the water in the water tables.

Anyway, it did not take too long after my warning to have the shit hit the fan. The Inspection team of engineers shut down the job and we were losing then in 1966 I think it was, more than $10,000 per day. We had crews on the job of about 14 men. So the VP who hired me called in to the job a Professor from the San Diego area who asked me what my solution was. I said we must add in bicarbonate of Soda to change the Ph. He agreed and got the job specifications modified to let us use Bicarbonate of Soda and we finished the job with no problems after this.

My point here is Engineers can and do make errors. I was not educated fully to be an engineer but the man just above me was and graduated from Stanford. He just flat out rejected my solution that the PhD agreed to. And the Phd was a specialist for the oil industry. Bentonite is commonly used by the Oil industry.

Lindzen could have at some point consulted for an oil industry but as this Phd we worked with did not work normally with construction firms digging trenches, he was accepted because he was a soils expert. I happen to have communicated with Lindzen over 20 years ago when he was still at MIT and he was extremely helpful to my study of climate.

By all means as an Engineer, my hunch is he would tell you he never was a stooge for any oil firm.

 

[Robert W]

Because I believe he is not a good scientist, that his conclusions are based on faulty science and that by supporting deniers, he is putting my children at increased risk.

Why are you so fearful of climate? Ignore the change and focus on a target. Do you not accept that man can adapt?

 

[Robert W]

I have made thousands of graphs in my day. We had rules-of-thumb as to scaling. In general, you want to contain all the data (minus outliers) at about 2/3rds the full scale of the graph. If necessary, multiple plots would be produced to show artifacts at different scales.

Destin of Smarter Every Day is also an engineer who has worked for NASA. I sent him a short note asking if he has deep dived into the Climate issues that has you sweating chunks of salt.
Since it was posted on Youtube this day, who knows when or if he will reply. I want his view of the horror you present of climate change. Me, since I was schooled as a pilot and studied weather, and you know climate is weather on a longer scale, it really taught me a great deal of global patterns and the Ninos and much more. Pilots experience weather daily as they pilot airplanes. It is not optional at all. All pilots must study weather and it leads to understanding more about Climate than most citizens ever have.

 

[Robert W]

I am a degreed engineer Robert. I worked for over 35 years with a group under NATO that conducted accuracy testing on sensor and weapons systems of NATO member-nation navies, ashore and at sea. What do you think?

I would trust what you say about NATO sensor and weapons systems both at sea and ashore.

Why would I mistrust scientists whose specialty is climate?

 

[Crick]

I would trust what you say about NATO sensor and weapons systems both at sea and ashore.

Why would I mistrust scientists whose specialty is climate?

By trusting people like Curry, Lindzen, Spencer and Christy, you are MIStrusting thousands of other scientists whose specialty is also climate. Why do you do that?

 

[Robert W]

By trusting people like Curry, Lindzen, Spencer and Christy, you are MIStrusting thousands of other scientists whose specialty is also climate. Why do you do that?

Sorry but I am talking of the pioneers. You are talking of those whose income depends on approving that man is the asshole of the planet taking your children's life as you fear if I read you correctly.

By the way, it is thousands of scientists who are not screaming that the Earth will burn to a crisp.