Religious hatred against Bush

[mattskramer]

I think many of the problems were due to tribes that raided white settlements and committed barbarous acts, which in turn created the hatred and attitudes in the whites. If these tribes had had better leadership, they would have seen the settlement of the white man as a positive thing.

The Inqusition was part of a centuries long war with the Muslims who invaded Europe, a war that is still going on, although Liberals specifically and most people in general don't understand. It was the Muslims who forced conversion upon the Christians, and some Christians returned the favor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition

The most serious punishment was relaxation to the secular arm, that implied burning at the stake. This penalty was frequently applied to impenitent heretics and those who had relapsed. Execution was public. If the condemned repented, he was garroted before his body was given to the flames. If not, he was burned alive.

 

[Gurdari]

Raeaction, forces, do you think these all happen by chance? What is the scientific probability of that?

Good question.

But long odds are only long to us. The sheer incredible (or not) probability of that happening may sound crazy to us humans, but that has no bearing on their validity. Perhaps the universe is quite unremarkable, and only amazes us.

 

[glockmail]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition

The most serious punishment was relaxation to the secular arm, that implied burning at the stake. This penalty was frequently applied to impenitent heretics and those who had relapsed. Execution was public. If the condemned repented, he was garroted before his body was given to the flames. If not, he was burned alive.

And the Muslims would raid African villages, kill all the people over 20 years old, multilate the boys and young men, and sell them all off to the white slave traders.

 

[glockmail]

Good question.

But long odds are only long to us. The sheer incredible (or not) probability of that happening may sound crazy to us humans, but that has no bearing on their validity. Perhaps the universe is quite unremarkable, and only amazes us.

You have more faith in chance then most have in God.

 

[Gurdari]

You have more faith in chance then most have in God.

Not faith exactly, if I was presented with evidence or proof of divine strategy I'd happily believe in it, I have no blind attachment to anything. If a better, more complete world view is offered, great. I just apply the same criteria to new information equally, no matter the source... in fact, don't scream, but the uncertainty principal* is near evidence (to me) of possible divine fingerprints.

*Based on my rudimentary physics knowledge, the fact that the closer you come to measuring a particle's position, the harder it is to measure its speed, and vice versa.

 

[glockmail]

Not faith exactly, if I was presented with evidence or proof of divine strategy I'd happily believe in it, I have no blind attachment to anything. If a better, more complete world view is offered, great. I just apply the same criteria to new information equally, no matter the source... in fact, don't scream, but the uncertainty principal* is near evidence (to me) of possible divine fingerprints.

*Based on my rudimentary physics knowledge, the fact that the closer you come to measuring a particle's position, the harder it is to measure its speed, and vice versa.

Interesting. I think that this and other scientific principles are evidence, and taken as a whole provide a clear and convincing case of divinity.

 

[Gurdari]

Interesting. I think that this and other scientific principles are evidence, and taken as a whole provide a clear and convincing case of divinity.

Hey, you could be right. Or wrong. Not enough evidence to conclude so far.
That's basically my view, even though I argue and generally feel more on the atheist side of the equation, it's only a reaction to what reasons exist, evidence I've seen, and what logically makes sense. There are many hard-core science junkies that firmly believe it's all pointing to a God-created world.

Of course, if I created man, I would have given him four less teeth (they don'y really provide any wisdom) and perhaps limited man's ability to destroy the planet. But I'm a product of a certain time and place. No more, no less.

 

[glockmail]

Hey, you could be right. Or wrong. Not enough evidence to conclude so far.
That's basically my view, even though I argue and generally feel more on the atheist side of the equation, it's only a reaction to what reasons exist, evidence I've seen, and what logically makes sense. There are many hard-core science junkies that firmly believe it's all pointing to a God-created world.

Of course, if I created man, I would have given him four less teeth (they don'y really provide any wisdom) and perhaps limited man's ability to destroy the planet. But I'm a product of a certain time and place. No more, no less.

We have the same basic approach, except I'm one of those who is convinced.

I lost a 2nd molar to decay and a “wisdom” tooth came in, pushed the rack together and in effect, replaced the one tooth that I lost. A child is born, 7 years later his teeth are replaced, 7 years after that 1st wisdoms, 7 years later second wisdoms. Figure 28 years for the total cycle, long enough to give birth and raise the next generation. Sounds like a well crafted plan to me, and one that does not “Take a Village”.

I also believe that God prizes freedom above all else, which explains why He allowed Men to do evil and even destroy the world. Of course, that’s all been prophesized as well.

 

[Vintij]

I really dont think extreme republicans should call themselves conservative, they're lifestyle may be conservative but there beliefs on "protecting america" invlove non christian military tactics of invading small country's. Thats extremely contradictory to the very foundation they pride themselves on. They wont support stem cell research but they will allow 100,000 innocent iraqi pregnant mothers and children to die in the middle of our war. They say its a sin to be gay and get married, yet its not a sin to support the death penalty and non lethal coersion aka. TORTURE?

It seems to me that extreme right wing conservatives are extremely BAD Christians. And nobody asks any questions about Bush's decision to "stay on the offensive" and how that contradicts his so called belief in the bible. Or is it ok to only follow 8 commandments, we can skip the "shall not kill" and the "shall not steal" parts for now because killing innocents in a war and stealing iraq does not count. Oh and it wasnt him who physically did it either.

I doubt the bible has any impressions or translations of the phrase "stay on the offensive" nothing divine about that.

and finally

Nobody belives bush is trying to turn the world catholic. Everyone just thinks he should get his own faith straight with an explanation of his actions and how it relates to the ethics of the bible. No need for an excuse of a reply.

 

[glockmail]

Very confusing post, and by “end of discussion, no need to reply” it appears that you are closed minded as well, but that never stopped m from pointing out fallacies and voicing my opinion.

1. It is “Christian” to turn the other cheek. Since God gave us two cheeks, it is also Christian to defend yourself when your second cheek is slapped. The size of your hide out has no bearing.
2. Saddam killed several hundred thousand innocents and had intended to kill many more, not as collateral damage but as prime targets.
3. Stem cell research is legal. Limited federal embryonic stem cell research has been approved by the Bush Administration; no funding was made available during the Clinton Administration. Private funding resources are not interested because the technology holds little to no promise, especially when compared to non-embryonic stem cell research. The entire issue is a political one.
4. The Bible says it is a sin to be gay. Gay marriage is an attack on core beliefs and since there are other means for gay couples to live together, is simply another pure political issue.
5. The death penalty is a proven method to deter crime and this protect innocent lives. Biblical reference: an eye for an eye”.
6. Staying on the offensive is the best way to minimize terrorist attacks on our soil. Proof: no attacks since this strategy has been in effect.
7. Bush is not Catholic, he’s a protestant-Christian.

 

[Gurdari]

We have the same basic approach, except I'm one of those who is convinced.

I lost a 2nd molar to decay and a “wisdom” tooth came in, pushed the rack together and in effect, replaced the one tooth that I lost. A child is born, 7 years later his teeth are replaced, 7 years after that 1st wisdoms, 7 years later second wisdoms. Figure 28 years for the total cycle, long enough to give birth and raise the next generation. Sounds like a well crafted plan to me, and one that does not “Take a Village”.

I also believe that God prizes freedom above all else, which explains why He allowed Men to do evil and even destroy the world. Of course, that’s all been prophesized as well.

I had my squeezed, maligned wisdom teeth removed when I was 18. Our jaws have evolved faster than our teeth, so we have an overcrowding problem.

Believing that God feels one way or another is tricky. Perhaps he made man, but passed away before we were perfect... leaving us perfectly fallable.

Never figured why he was so into lizards though, why would he let them dominate Earth first, and for so long? Why wait to make his 'fave' creation? And were the man/ape mixes (homos erectus, habilus,etc) his first tries with us? Once he got it right he rested?

 

[Gurdari]

I really dont think extreme republicans should call themselves conservative, they're lifestyle may be conservative but there beliefs on "protecting america" invlove non christian military tactics of invading small country's. Thats extremely contradictory to the very foundation they pride themselves on. They wont support stem cell research but they will allow 100,000 innocent iraqi pregnant mothers and children to die in the middle of our war. They say its a sin to be gay and get married, yet its not a sin to support the death penalty and non lethal coersion aka. TORTURE?

It seems to me that extreme right wing conservatives are extremely BAD Christians. And nobody asks any questions about Bush's decision to "stay on the offensive" and how that contradicts his so called belief in the bible. Or is it ok to only follow 8 commandments, we can skip the "shall not kill" and the "shall not steal" parts for now because killing innocents in a war and stealing iraq does not count. Oh and it wasnt him who physically did it either.

I doubt the bible has any impressions or translations of the phrase "stay on the offensive" nothing divine about that.

and finally

Nobody belives bush is trying to turn the world catholic. Everyone just thinks he should get his own faith straight with an explanation of his actions and how it relates to the ethics of the bible. No need for an excuse of a reply.

Dude, read the bible. It's full of rape, slavery, torture, aggression, you name it (and those are just the things God okayed). Don't be surprised by Bush any longer. One man does not control the agenda, but he sure is a lightning rod.

 

[Vintij]

God did not OKAY any of that you idiot. Infact the bible was written in hebrew and interpred in english so how could you ever tell what GOD himself meant when jesus lived and the aposltes wrote about it. You dont know what god thinks, Nobody does, its all interpretation!!! And I really really doubt he "Okayed" Rape, slavery, killings, and torture. It happend becuase of your belief that adam and eve commited original sin. How can you be so ignorant as to say that GOD let this stuff happen so why cant bush let it happen?!?!?! Its life, dude....Death and murder and destruction exists and GOD wont stop it BUT BUSH can help by not waging war. Your not god so why should i allow you to tell me that Its okay for bush to start chaos in iraq when he can easily just have not started it at all and saved more iraqi lives now than any who ever died under saddam.

As for glock your equally as redundant and closed minded, neither of you have actually read the bible you were preached the bible, and neither of you has a clue what the aposltes meant with the hebrew scripts, what jesus meant when he lived the story and certainly what GOD ever meant.

Dont tell me that "eye for an eye" means its okay for us to choose to destroy something that we didnt take a miracle to create. The original texts meant CIVIL disputes, meaning valued goods not literally life itself, thats not a good its a miracle.

Dont fucking tell me that saddam killed several hundred thousand people thats absolutely ridiculess, He executed 2,000 and was involved in a shia rebellion war which killed 40,000 iraqi lives. Thats the highlight of his career, our career is over 100,000 iraqi civilians dead, 3,000 american soldiers dead and 30,000 wounded. We invaded iraq making it statistically harder to survive there for an iraqi and for an american than under saddam. Im sorry to be the first to say this but statistically THE WORLD WAS A BETTER PLACE WITH SADDAM. obviously i dont mean that literally but my point is in the numbers and the facts.

Lastly, embryonic research does not exist without funding which two years ago the majority of the senate pushed to get with the stem cell reasearch enhancement act of 2005, as well as the majority of the american people on US polls, yet BUSH used his first VETO to kill the legislation in congress. EVERYONE wanted the research to be funded Except BUSH himself.

You both are complete fox news brain washed consumerist driven media influenced patriotic presidential government right wing ass kissers. Have a mind of your own you robots. Stop listening to your parents and your neighbors, stop listening to me even, or this message board. Decide for yourself. Just cuz your family is extreme republican doesnt mean you have to follow the herd.

 

[Eightball]

God did not OKAY any of that you idiot. Infact the bible was written in hebrew and interpred in english so how could you ever tell what GOD himself meant when jesus lived and the aposltes wrote about it. You dont know what god thinks, Nobody does, its all interpretation!!! And I really really doubt he "Okayed" Rape, slavery, killings, and torture. It happend becuase of your belief that adam and eve commited original sin. How can you be so ignorant as to say that GOD let this stuff happen so why cant bush let it happen?!?!?! Its life, dude....Death and murder and destruction exists and GOD wont stop it BUT BUSH can help by not waging war. Your not god so why should i allow you to tell me that Its okay for bush to start chaos in iraq when he can easily just have not started it at all and saved more iraqi lives now than any who ever died under saddam.

As for glock your equally as redundant and closed minded, neither of you have actually read the bible you were preached the bible, and neither of you has a clue what the aposltes meant with the hebrew scripts, what jesus meant when he lived the story and certainly what GOD ever meant.

Dont tell me that "eye for an eye" means its okay for us to choose to destroy something that we didnt take a miracle to create. The original texts meant CIVIL disputes, meaning valued goods not literally life itself, thats not a good its a miracle.

Dont fucking tell me that saddam killed several hundred thousand people thats absolutely ridiculess, He executed 2,000 and was involved in a shia rebellion war which killed 40,000 iraqi lives. Thats the highlight of his career, our career is over 100,000 iraqi civilians dead, 3,000 american soldiers dead and 30,000 wounded. We invaded iraq making it statistically harder to survive there for an iraqi and for an american than under saddam. Im sorry to be the first to say this but statistically THE WORLD WAS A BETTER PLACE WITH SADDAM. obviously i dont mean that literally but my point is in the numbers and the facts.

Lastly, embryonic research does not exist without funding which two years ago the majority of the senate pushed to get with the stem cell reasearch enhancement act of 2005, as well as the majority of the american people on US polls, yet BUSH used his first VETO to kill the legislation in congress. EVERYONE wanted the research to be funded Except BUSH himself.

You both are complete fox news brain washed consumerist driven media influenced patriotic presidential government right wing ass kissers. Have a mind of your own you robots. Stop listening to your parents and your neighbors, stop listening to me even, or this message board. Decide for yourself. Just cuz your family is extreme republican doesnt mean you have to follow the herd.

Not so sure I can accept your interpretation.

 

[mattskramer]

Very confusing post, and by “end of discussion, no need to reply” it appears that you are closed minded as well, but that never stopped m from pointing out fallacies and voicing my opinion.

1. It is “Christian” to turn the other cheek. Since God gave us two cheeks, it is also Christian to defend yourself when your second cheek is slapped. The size of your hide out has no bearing.
2. Saddam killed several hundred thousand innocents and had intended to kill many more, not as collateral damage but as prime targets.
3. Stem cell research is legal. Limited federal embryonic stem cell research has been approved by the Bush Administration; no funding was made available during the Clinton Administration. Private funding resources are not interested because the technology holds little to no promise, especially when compared to non-embryonic stem cell research. The entire issue is a political one.
4. The Bible says it is a sin to be gay. Gay marriage is an attack on core beliefs and since there are other means for gay couples to live together, is simply another pure political issue.
5. The death penalty is a proven method to deter crime and this protect innocent lives. Biblical reference: an eye for an eye”.
6. Staying on the offensive is the best way to minimize terrorist attacks on our soil. Proof: no attacks since this strategy has been in effect.
7. Bush is not Catholic, he’s a protestant-Christian.

Read Matthew 5-7. In all practicality, Jesus set no limit to how kind we are to be to our enemy.

Check out these gems. http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/nbwposath.htm

Thankfully one does not have to be a Christian to be an American and we have not applied every piece of advice from the Bible as law of the land.

 

[glockmail]

I had my squeezed, maligned wisdom teeth removed when I was 18. Our jaws have evolved faster than our teeth, so we have an overcrowding problem.

Believing that God feels one way or another is tricky. Perhaps he made man, but passed away before we were perfect... leaving us perfectly fallable.

Never figured why he was so into lizards though, why would he let them dominate Earth first, and for so long? Why wait to make his 'fave' creation? And were the man/ape mixes (homos erectus, habilus,etc) his first tries with us? Once he got it right he rested?

Before God created dentists your older teeth would have fallen out, and the wisdom teeth needed so you can chew your food. After the dentists, He cretaed oral surgeons. This is calle "evolution" and also explains the man/ ape mixes.


I think the lizard thing was so we could have all this nice crude oil to fight over.

 

[glockmail]

Read Matthew 5-7. In all practicality, Jesus set no limit to how kind we are to be to our enemy.

Check out these gems. http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/nbwposath.htm

Thankfully one does not have to be a Christian to be an American and we have not applied every piece of advice from the Bible as law of the land.

1. How does "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy." tell us to lie down in front of those sworn to kill us?
2. You link refers to old testament readings, and we have been over that already, have we not? To summarize, most of that stuff started with a homosexual encounter, and continues to this day between the Jews (righteous) and the Arabs (damned).

 

[Gurdari]

Before God created dentists your older teeth would have fallen out, and the wisdom teeth needed so you can chew your food. After the dentists, He cretaed oral surgeons. This is calle "evolution" and also explains the man/ ape mixes.

I think the lizard thing was so we could have all this nice crude oil to fight over.

Interesting thought...

 

[LuvRPgrl]

I really dont think extreme republicans should call themselves conservative, they're lifestyle may be conservative but there beliefs on "protecting america" invlove non christian military tactics of invading small country's. Thats extremely contradictory to the very foundation they pride themselves on. They wont support stem cell research but they will allow 100,000 innocent iraqi pregnant mothers and children to die in the middle of our war. They say its a sin to be gay and get married, yet its not a sin to support the death penalty and non lethal coersion aka. TORTURE?

It seems to me that extreme right wing conservatives are extremely BAD Christians. And nobody asks any questions about Bush's decision to "stay on the offensive" and how that contradicts his so called belief in the bible. Or is it ok to only follow 8 commandments, we can skip the "shall not kill" and the "shall not steal" parts for now because killing innocents in a war and stealing iraq does not count. Oh and it wasnt him who physically did it either.

I doubt the bible has any impressions or translations of the phrase "stay on the offensive" nothing divine about that.

and finally

Nobody belives bush is trying to turn the world catholic. Everyone just thinks he should get his own faith straight with an explanation of his actions and how it relates to the ethics of the bible. No need for an excuse of a reply.

You sound quite angry and closed minded. Hmmm, I guess I must be one of those extreme right wing Christian conservatives you describe. Yep, I support invading small countries, like when we invaded the Philippines to kick the japs out, and the spanish before that, or France and Italy to kick the Nazis out, etc etc, etc....

and yes, I oppose stem cell research, oh wait, actually I dont, I oppose GOVERNMENT FUNDED stem cell research, ya know, where men in uniforms come and take my money by threat of violence because some rich bitch like Feinstein makes them, then spend it on something like stem cell research but wont even pave the road in front of my house,,,,

100,000 Iraqi women and children died? Thats all? Ya sure? I heard it was about 10,000,000

Sorry, but Im just not followin ya on the jump from gay marriage to the death penalty, ya saying gay marriage is like a death penalty?

Now son, I do have to correct ya on one of em. It actuallys says "thou shalt not murder" not, "thou shalt not kill",,,opppps, just a MINOR difference there, cuz ya see, on the very next page it describes the penalty for murder, and its DEATH, so I dont think God would say, thou shalt not kill, and then say on the next page, thou shalt kill. Ya think????

 

[Vintij]

jeez, we only invaded the phillipines to GET to the japs. the phillipines had nothing to do with the support of the japanese they were just an island for jap guerilla warfare, infact we spent alot of money after the war to rebuild that country. I was talking about invading and occupying a small country, we did not occupy the phillipines after 1942. Iraq, is different, we took over....and your a fool to compare the two.

And the nazis? Dont get me started about the ties between what they were doing, religous cleansing and killing of all the "wicked jews" from there culter, when it says in the king james version of the old testamen that god himself caused the great flood and only saved noah and his family because the rest of the entire world was corrupt. The interpretation is not a good foundation for debate because from the hebrew texts to the king james version to the new testamen, everything has changed with the new age of christianity. The nazis believe what they did was right....GOD said what he did was right, so how is invading iraq any different from the nazi cleansing in WW2? "thou shalt not murder without just cause" Well i understood the great flood and the evil hebrew race god was talking about, but the US is not god and should not invade and kill without just cause. Because to tell me that we invaded iraq because we listen to god and god told us to kill saddam, would be outragous. Nobody told bush to invade iraq but BUSH. At least in the bible they explained why GOD had a large race of people killed. Please understand that god the divine did not write the bible. DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE. So with this evidence that god could not have writen the bible, its safe to say that through centuries of interpretation, still nobody knows why god did anything or what he was thinking when he did it.

Im not even going to explain the gay marriage and death penalty contrast, if you cant understand plain english that the two are not related then you need to go back to school.

Look personally i could care less about the death penalty i was only using that as an example. Because nowhere in the new testamen does it say we can do what god did back then. We cant say, "well god said the penalty for murder is death, lets go kill all the murdering people in the world". To some degree you need to have some common sense about who controlls the life and death of certain civilizations. If they do become a real life threat and not a pre-concieved notion that they are up to something, then yes it is OK to defend ourselves. Thats not in the bible thats just common sense.

Also, you said you oppose government funded stem cell research? Well tell me who on earth is going to have enough money to fund a year let alone an entire decade of breakthrough research? You act as though someone owes you something like paving your street in front of your house, nobody owes you specifically anything. You pay taxes for the betterment of the entire NATION and its future, and its always been that way for centuries, except its people like you that could have stopped the funding for research on plauge and yellow fever and safer amputation. If it was up to you we would still be cutting off legs with a tree saw.

If it was up to you we wouldnt have even bothered with finding medicine for aids patients because well "there gay and thats a sin right?" well are you telling me god is punishing them for being gay? Ok then why is he punishing the thousands of people who Arent gay with aids? Its reasons like this why we need funding for research, not for our benefit but for future generations.


Lastly, who on this planet told you 10,000,000 people died in the iraq war? Are you serious?!?!?! Wow i find that hard to believe considering the population of iraq is 26,000,000. Wow i didnt know that half the population of iraq died after we invaded!!!!!?!?!?? And even if it was that absurd number of people who died in iraq, your still just proving me right, that too many are dying since we invaded. So i dont get why you said that.