Religion and Ethics

[emilynghiem]

Believe what you want, but if you start claiming your god is the only source of all good things, it gets kinda insulting to those that don't share your devotion

The fact is, SOMEONE is right.

Atheists do EXACTLY the same thing, and you dont understand why WE would be insulted

^ Death Angel makes a fair point here
It can be just as insulting and challenging when Atheists make personal remarks against Christian Theists for their beliefs

The difference is:
Christians are expected to practice forgiveness, so when that fails, they could be attacked as hypocrites or encouraged to forgive. Christians should help each other to forgive. But atheists seeking to exploit this flaw will goad and bait them to try proving them failures.

Atheists are expected to prove their positions on facts not faith.
That argument goes equally in circles since neither existence or nonexistence of God can be provem or disproven.
So when Atheists fail at this, the same thing happens: either attack them and use this flaw to personally bait and troll.
Or try to be objective and help reason with this process: if both sides are faithbased, then why not focus on what will help reach agreement on the meanings or applications to real life that we agree are mutually beneficial and serve the best purpose?

If we agree the purpose of "seeking the Kingdom of God" means universal truth, let's seek that together, Atheist or Christian, despite our different language.

If we agree the meaning and message of Christ Jesus is Restorative Justice, let's look at the difference this approach makes by seeking Justice and Peace by MUTUAL Forgiveness and Correction by inclusion, instead of Judgment and Punishment for rejection.

BULLDOG if you would respond better by approaching this through Buddhist ethics, I believe a combination of that helps to check against abuses with Constitutional and Christian principles.

BlackSand I used to be a Moderator but had to stop due to juggling two jobs. I could go back and volunteer for the Religion and Ethics threads. Which looks like a 24/7 job in itself.

I may do better by staying as a regular member, and just mediating member to member to break up bullying fights.
Do we need a separate mediation ring to do that in? Or is it okay to do that in the middle of threads whenever a push comes to shove?

Is there a way to make a timeout rule or place, if two posters start butting heads personally, they go into timeout until they agree to stick to issues, or start a separate thread to work it out one on one before they post. If so I can volunteer to co-mediate with you to walk the two posters through a timeout like stopping a fight to make sure both are okay, and agree no more punching below the belt but what is your real issue, get it resolved, then you can go back in the ring.

Would it help to have a way to call Timeouts and walk the two headbutters through some understanding that will prevent that bullying in the future? Thanks!

Again, you show you don't even understand what makes an atheist. Very few are on a mission to prove there is no god. I have never once said there is no god. I have only said I have never seen any reason to believe a god exists. I would personally be thrilled if credible evidence of a god were produced. Don't expect me not to laugh and ridicule those who insist their feelings are proof of god.

Hi BULLDOG
I understand there is a mix of approaches or "denominations" of atheism. I find common differences such as:
1. NONtheism or secularist. Some believe in the same concepts that
God/Jesus stand for, such as truth or wisdom, justice, love, greatest good or ultimate benevolence for all humanity, creation/universe. But do not personify these as anthropomorphic figures or deities. Some do or do not equate their values with the same things Christians mean. But I use NONtheist to be Neutral, where it refers to secular terms for the same universal meanings.
2. Atheists can mean NOT believing there is a God/gods or believing there are NO such things as God/gods. Some people identify as Atheist but more agnostic. Some Atheists have no issues with Christians, others do. If they are not neutral as I use Nontheist for, then Atheist implies a bias against believing the neutral/secular terms are interchangeable with the Christian terms.
3. Anti-theists are opposed to Theists and Theism. This is like the politicized version of Atheism. Nontheism is the most neutral, where some people merely process ideas information and perceptions in the brain in secular terms.

From your response you seem to be neutral when people are neutral and openminded. But swing Atheist, not quite Antitheist as others can get, when people get religiously judgmental.

I think if you were not around jerks you would be nontheist and agnostic.

You can sort and stack all you want, but If you have seen no reason to believe there is a god, then you are an atheist. Go insulting atheists, or demanding our laws become Christian compliant will turn an atheist into an antitheist pretty quick. Believe what you want. If your religion gives you comfort, then good for you, bot you gota know that when you go making claims about your religion on a public forum, people will ask hard questions, and ridicule absurd answers.

Who and what are you addressing here?

How have I said anything about attacking or insulting atheists?

Whatever you are responding to is the exact opposite of my beliefs and approach.

I believe whatever is universal truth and principles or process taught in Christianity (using religious symbols) can be translated or explained in secular terms where nontheists/atheists can agree on the same principles they already believe in (like truth and justice and respecting people equally).

What part of that excludes or insults atheists?

BULLDOG

 

[Grumblenuts]

The Boy Scouts of America formally discriminates against nonreligious boys and their families, officially excluding atheists, agnostics and nonbelievers. Currently, BSA maintains "that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing his obligation to God."

FFRF maintains that no one can grow into the best kind of citizen who discriminates against the nonreligious, and that it's what you do — not what you believe — that makes you a good person

 

[Ziggy]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

 

[surada]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

In modern usage, “Gentile” applies to a single individual, although occasionally (as in English translations of the Bible) “the Gentiles” means “the nations.”

In postbiblical Hebrew, goy came to mean an individual non-Jew rather than a nation. Because most non-Jews in the Western world were Christians, Gentile came to be equated with Christian.
Gentile | History & Definition | Britannica
www.britannica.com/topic/Gentile
www.britannica.com/topic/Gentile

 

[Ziggy]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

In modern usage, “Gentile” applies to a single individual, although occasionally (as in English translations of the Bible) “the Gentiles” means “the nations.”

In postbiblical Hebrew, goy came to mean an individual non-Jew rather than a nation. Because most non-Jews in the Western world were Christians, Gentile came to be equated with Christian.
Gentile | History & Definition | Britannica
www.britannica.com/topic/Gentile
www.britannica.com/topic/Gentile

Okay, what if I change Gentiles to just people?
Would that make a difference to the rest of the post?
Does it matter what people are "LABELED" ?

HUGS

 

[JustAGuy1]

No really, it is a serious question.
And one that I don't mean to take lightly.

I'll tell you why I believe.
I been in some pretty interesting predicaments in my life, same as many have.
One day I was driving my car to work on I-90 in Massachusetts. Going under the tunnels of the city of Boston.
I was in the center lane and my car died. not putter putter poof. nope.. Boom dead.
I looked up in the rear view mirror. There was an 18 wheeler inches from my rear bumper.
I closed my eyes. I didn't have time to think about anything except the face of my daughter passed b4 my eyes.
I opened my eyes and that 14 wheeler was inches from my front bumper and moving right along like I wasn't even there to slow him down for a second.
The police came and ushered me over to the breakdown lane.
How?

Riding on the back of a motorcycle going across I-95 Bridge. Far left lane against the railing.
Two cars up brake lights, truck on my right, truck on my rear. Never switched lanes.
Should have been crushed.

Old boyfriend cocaine addict. Decides I need to check out getting high by injection.
Needle don't work.
Works for him.. he ends up in the hospital. Not me.
I ran back home asap.

Vomiting for over 24 hours straight. I can't catch my breath. I have no strength.
Sitting on the toilet. God.. if it's time for me to go.. do it now. I can't do this.
15 minutes later all symptoms gone.

Then comes this Peaceful feeling, not anxious, not heavy.
A sense of calmness, a knowing, that somewhere out there someone or something is watching over me.

It's been 40 years since I-90.
Been 10 years since I asked to leave.
Why am I here?
What is my purpose?

If I can make a positive difference in this world... maybe that's all I'm meant to do.
I don't know. I'm not dead yet. And it looks like there may be more for me to do.
Do for who? What difference does it make if I am good or bad, nice or mean, lift you up or put you down?
Something inside that wasn't there before tells me I have work to do.
And it's not a 9-5 job either.
It's a reaching out to others. A desire to share my thoughts, my testimony, that this isn't all there is.
There's so much more.
And everyday is good, even if it's hard or sad or painful, it's still good.

I don't know how else to say why I believe the way I do.
I just thought I'd share.
I know you could probably find rational reasons for these things. I've only mentioned a few. There is so much more.
But I believe I'm here for a reason. And that reason has to come from somewhere.
And I found a book that explains where that reason comes from.
And that's why I stand where I stand.

I hope this helps
Sincerely
Hugs

I've had close calls too. Most people have. If your close calls caused you to reevaluate your behavior and try to do better, that's great, but it's not miraculous, and it's certainly not proof of god.

Nobody has to "prove" God is real.

 

[emilynghiem]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

I would translate terms like "under God" or "duty to God" to mean "for the public good" which is more universal language by natural laws all people are under regardless of having religion or not.

Ziggy Christian need not invoke attack.

The Bible warns that anyone presenting other than the ORIGINAL gospel or message someone has heard will be accursed, even an angel messenger.

This means we should speak the native language of the audience we address so there is no need to attack or reject.

Jesus as Justice, God's truth as universal, should fulfill not abolish the laws people have been given.

We change our delivery, we change our reception. Same message but the presentation changes to share with each audience, like Jesus using parables to make sense to everyday folks who wouldn't respond to the same Scripture Jesus reserved for holding Pharisees to their own laws.

Why not translate these terms into regular talk that means the same good things?

Faith in God and God's will means good will or greater good for all humanity.

Faith in Jesus is faith in Justice.

Christianity means Charity for all, or what Buddhists call Compassion while the Kingdom of God as Universal Truth that sets us free is called Wisdom and Salvation is called Enlightenment because Buddhism focuses on the Mind while Christianity on the Heart.

We are called to Love God with all our hearts minds and Souls.
We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves.

From these Two Great Commandments come all the other laws and Prophets.

In Buddhism, these correspond to the Two basic principles all the teachings come from:
Developing perfect Wisdom which is another name for God
Developing perfect Compassion which aligns with loving our neighbor, but goes further in including compassion for the planet, and all living beings in the world/creation

So when Jesus gives us the New Commandment, to love one another as He does, this is joining the love of man with the love of God. We now love not by reciprocal human love for mutual material reward, but we love as Jesus does with God's love that is limitless and unconditional.

So this fulfills and joins the Two Great Commandments as one, and the same love of God's Wisdom and Christian Charity or Compassion fulfills the Buddhist teachings as well.

When we speak the truth with love, or as Buddhists call practicing the Right Speech, this brings Comfort and Peace, not division and war.

I am glad to see the Boy Scouts promote positive values after the whole negative debacle over gender. I thought they should create a new Youth Scouts to include both Boys and Girls for open Family camping and activities.

I thought it was better to have separate Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts so groups can focus separately.

We can work out optimal solutions without fighting.

I was brought up as a Girl Scout and was taught to be a friend and helper to all.
If we do our job right, people will want us to help and be around, and will call on us.

If you don't practice what you preach, yes, people sense that and that is what usually incites reactions.

As for even good intentions meeting with mixed reactions, people have their own issues they project externally while sorting out what they really believe and want out of life. That projection is part of their process and not to be taken personally unless it is part of yours.

If it is part of your process, too, then it is not a bad thing to complain about.

Potterhead2021 asked how do we develop patience? By practicing talking and interacting with those who challenge us the most.

We learn from experience with each person. The good news is, the more we learn to speak the language of others, they equally learn to include and tolerate our ways of saying the same things.

When we understand the changes are mutual, and both sides stretch equally to meet in the middle, it isn't onesided where both sides defend themselves while pushing the other to change.

It's a mutual process of equal give and take.

 

[emilynghiem]

No really, it is a serious question.
And one that I don't mean to take lightly.

I'll tell you why I believe.
I been in some pretty interesting predicaments in my life, same as many have.
One day I was driving my car to work on I-90 in Massachusetts. Going under the tunnels of the city of Boston.
I was in the center lane and my car died. not putter putter poof. nope.. Boom dead.
I looked up in the rear view mirror. There was an 18 wheeler inches from my rear bumper.
I closed my eyes. I didn't have time to think about anything except the face of my daughter passed b4 my eyes.
I opened my eyes and that 14 wheeler was inches from my front bumper and moving right along like I wasn't even there to slow him down for a second.
The police came and ushered me over to the breakdown lane.
How?

Riding on the back of a motorcycle going across I-95 Bridge. Far left lane against the railing.
Two cars up brake lights, truck on my right, truck on my rear. Never switched lanes.
Should have been crushed.

Old boyfriend cocaine addict. Decides I need to check out getting high by injection.
Needle don't work.
Works for him.. he ends up in the hospital. Not me.
I ran back home asap.

Vomiting for over 24 hours straight. I can't catch my breath. I have no strength.
Sitting on the toilet. God.. if it's time for me to go.. do it now. I can't do this.
15 minutes later all symptoms gone.

Then comes this Peaceful feeling, not anxious, not heavy.
A sense of calmness, a knowing, that somewhere out there someone or something is watching over me.

It's been 40 years since I-90.
Been 10 years since I asked to leave.
Why am I here?
What is my purpose?

If I can make a positive difference in this world... maybe that's all I'm meant to do.
I don't know. I'm not dead yet. And it looks like there may be more for me to do.
Do for who? What difference does it make if I am good or bad, nice or mean, lift you up or put you down?
Something inside that wasn't there before tells me I have work to do.
And it's not a 9-5 job either.
It's a reaching out to others. A desire to share my thoughts, my testimony, that this isn't all there is.
There's so much more.
And everyday is good, even if it's hard or sad or painful, it's still good.

I don't know how else to say why I believe the way I do.
I just thought I'd share.
I know you could probably find rational reasons for these things. I've only mentioned a few. There is so much more.
But I believe I'm here for a reason. And that reason has to come from somewhere.
And I found a book that explains where that reason comes from.
And that's why I stand where I stand.

I hope this helps
Sincerely
Hugs

I've had close calls too. Most people have. If your close calls caused you to reevaluate your behavior and try to do better, that's great, but it's not miraculous, and it's certainly not proof of god.

Nobody has to "prove" God is real.

What we can do JustAGuy1 and Ziggy is prove how prayers work by forgiveness and healing of past obstructions.

Whether people receive miraculous results (I will add some stories too),
or solutions that are perfectly rational and explicable by science, the effects of forgiveness prayer are consistently positive beneficial and never negative or harmful unless something better comes from an adverse result. I had some prayers answered by people freaking out on me "for no reason we could change" in order to get me out of bad situations into better ones, so even something that looked bad was to move me elsewhere. (Some of the sudden twists that came without warning, people totally believing false things about me that normally I can resolve easily, but created impassable walls, made it clear this wasn't normal. But clearly happening for higher reasons to force a change of direction. Had this happen 3 or 4 times where I learned to recognize the "strange feeling" something else is going on to cause almost ridiculous type disruptions that nobody could explain afterwards except my friend who had prayed for me and it came out weird but ended up working out that way.)

I believe that by forgiveness and healing, more nontheists like BULLDOG (and two of my dear friends also Atheist and Anti-rightwing christian who agreed to Christian spiritual healing pray to get rid of addictions and self destructive patterns) can restore normal healthy relations with Christians and even political rightwing opponents and be perfectly at peace without fear or coercion that anyone needs to change anyone else.

The biggest barrier is not about proving God directly, but overcoming unforgiveness fear or distrust. Get that out of the way, and we can talk like normal.

Normal friends can talk about what we dreamed, and what do the ideas mean, without arguing or proving who really dreamed those things or "made it up."

Spiritual visions or experiences are the same way. The point is to focus on the meaning and interpret ideas that help us.

When we can get to that point of normalcy in sharing beliefs and experiences without projecting fears or blame for past faults on each other,
the true meanings and ideas speak for themselves.

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

 

[Ziggy]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

I would translate terms like "under God" or "duty to God" to mean "for the public good" which is more universal language by natural laws all people are under regardless of having religion or not.

Ziggy Christian need not invoke attack.

The Bible warns that anyone presenting other than the ORIGINAL gospel or message someone has heard will be accursed, even an angel messenger.

This means we should speak the native language of the audience we address so there is no need to attack or reject.

Jesus as Justice, God's truth as universal, should fulfill not abolish the laws people have been given.

We change our delivery, we change our reception. Same message but the presentation changes to share with each audience, like Jesus using parables to make sense to everyday folks who wouldn't respond to the same Scripture Jesus reserved for holding Pharisees to their own laws.

Why not translate these terms into regular talk that means the same good things?

Faith in God and God's will means good will or greater good for all humanity.

Faith in Jesus is faith in Justice.

Christianity means Charity for all, or what Buddhists call Compassion while the Kingdom of God as Universal Truth that sets us free is called Wisdom and Salvation is called Enlightenment because Buddhism focuses on the Mind while Christianity on the Heart.

We are called to Love God with all our hearts minds and Souls.
We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves.

From these Two Great Commandments come all the other laws and Prophets.

In Buddhism, these correspond to the Two basic principles all the teachings come from:
Developing perfect Wisdom which is another name for God
Developing perfect Compassion which aligns with loving our neighbor, but goes further in including compassion for the planet, and all living beings in the world/creation

So when Jesus gives us the New Commandment, to love one another as He does, this is joining the love of man with the love of God. We now love not by reciprocal human love for mutual material reward, but we love as Jesus does with God's love that is limitless and unconditional.

So this fulfills and joins the Two Great Commandments as one, and the same love of God's Wisdom and Christian Charity or Compassion fulfills the Buddhist teachings as well.

When we speak the truth with love, or as Buddhists call practicing the Right Speech, this brings Comfort and Peace, not division and war.

I am glad to see the Boy Scouts promote positive values after the whole negative debacle over gender. I thought they should create a new Youth Scouts to include both Boys and Girls for open Family camping and activities.

I thought it was better to have separate Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts so groups can focus separately.

We can work out optimal solutions without fighting.

I was brought up as a Girl Scout and was taught to be a friend and helper to all.
If we do our job right, people will want us to help and be around, and will call on us.

If you don't practice what you preach, yes, people sense that and that is what usually incites reactions.

As for even good intentions meeting with mixed reactions, people have their own issues they project externally while sorting out what they really believe and want out of life. That projection is part of their process and not to be taken personally unless it is part of yours.

If it is part of your process, too, then it is not a bad thing to complain about.

Potterhead2021 asked how do we develop patience? By practicing talking and interacting with those who challenge us the most.

We learn from experience with each person. The good news is, the more we learn to speak the language of others, they equally learn to include and tolerate our ways of saying the same things.

When we understand the changes are mutual, and both sides stretch equally to meet in the middle, it isn't onesided where both sides defend themselves while pushing the other to change.

It's a mutual process of equal give and take.

There is no universal language yet though.
And everyone has their own interpretation.

We have this word racist or racism. A couple years ago it meant one thing. Today it means something totally different.
And when we try to communicate with people with this new "version" of what a word means..
there is just so much confusion. Not by the ones who changed it. They know exactly what they mean. But by the ones they changed it on. Like being left in a boat with no paddle. What are they talking about???

There are a lot of words and meanings of words that have been deliberately changed over the last few years for the very purpose of causing confusion and frustration.

How do we get over those hurdles?

If you try to explain that this word means this to me, they say your wrong, this is what it means.
This is a very difficult generation we are coming into.
I think words are going to have to take a back seat to actions.
We won't be able to say what we mean, we will only be able to show them.

Amo 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time; for it is an evil time.

prudent:

Careful or wise in handling practical matters; exercising good judgment or common sense.

Characterized by or resulting from care or wisdom in practical matters or in planning for the future.

Thoughtful; judicious; sagacious; sensible.

I have to look a lot of things up. My education was rather lacking. I graduated the 8th grade with a 6th grade education, so sometimes big words or not common words confuse me. Thank You for your PATIENCE ..

Hugs

 

[Donald H]

Is there a possibility of moving Religious and Ethics to Zone one?

I'm tired of chasing down trolls that only want to bash religion.

There's no sense in trying to insulate religion from due criticism.

And too, in the real world the religious are only taking part to hear the criticism. Religious superstitous beliefs are on the decline and if they keep it to themselves in their homes of churches, it declines even faster.

Consider yourselves as missionaries for the cause.

 

[Donald H]

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

But you need and crave attention and that's the point. Anyone who tries to insulate religious bigots from criticism, becomes their own worst enemy.

 

[Auld Phart]

Is there a possibility of moving Religious and Ethics to Zone one?

I'm tired of chasing down trolls that only want to bash religion.

There's no sense in trying to insulate religion from due criticism.

And too, in the real world the religious are only taking part to hear the criticism. Religious superstitous beliefs are on the decline and if they keep it to themselves in their homes of churches, it declines even faster.

Consider yourselves as missionaries for the cause.

And too, in the real world the religious are only taking part to hear the criticism.

There' a difference between criticism and trolling.

I'm merely trying to circumvent some of the trolling.

 

[JustAGuy1]

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

But you need and crave attention and that's the point. Anyone who tries to insulate religious bigots from criticism, becomes their own worst enemy.

LOL, "crave" attention? From what I've read from Emily she is simply a very gentle, kind soul. Me? I actively seek to not be ANYONE'S center of attention. You're 0 for 2 here.

 

[Amadeus]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

In modern usage, “Gentile” applies to a single individual, although occasionally (as in English translations of the Bible) “the Gentiles” means “the nations.”

In postbiblical Hebrew, goy came to mean an individual non-Jew rather than a nation. Because most non-Jews in the Western world were Christians, Gentile came to be equated with Christian.
Gentile | History & Definition | Britannica
www.britannica.com/topic/Gentile
www.britannica.com/topic/Gentile

Aye... and even so we see a communication problem, then and now. What did the writers of scripture understand? What did God who gave them the words to write want to say? Was it always precisely the same message to each hearer or reader?

And 'gentiles' in one sense as I see in the scriptures applied to every heathen... that everyone living as a pagan, no matter what he might say of himself. Perhaps then even some [many?] with tribal roots stemming from the children of Jacob, son of Isaac, and the 'so-called' Jews of today, have also been or are gentiles.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [Rom 9:6]

Jesus clarifies where he is with regard to the those who actually hold the positions given to Moses way back when...

The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [Matt 23:2-3

 

[Ziggy]

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

But you need and crave attention and that's the point. Anyone who tries to insulate religious bigots from criticism, becomes their own worst enemy.

But isn't that what your doing now?
Hugs

 

[Donald H]

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

But you need and crave attention and that's the point. Anyone who tries to insulate religious bigots from criticism, becomes their own worst enemy.

LOL, "crave" attention? From what I've read from Emily she is simply a very gentle, kind soul. Me? I actively seek to not be ANYONE'S center of attention. You're 0 for 2 here.

No religious people are gentle and kind souls. The follow their bible's literal teaching that encourages rape, murder, and destruction of anything or anybody that doesn't sign on to their medieval beliefs.

And to affirm that, they are currently attempting to distance themselves from the evil thier bibles teach by trying to say it's not to be taken literally.

Ask any christian who thinks he/she needs to blow off the 6000 year old earth nonsense in an attempt to stand with science's credibility.

You love it and you crave more because it's getting 'attention'.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Pardon moi un momento s'il vous plait

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [Rom 9:6]

I give up. How do you get quotes to appear in old school white boxes like that?

 

[surada]

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

But you need and crave attention and that's the point. Anyone who tries to insulate religious bigots from criticism, becomes their own worst enemy.

LOL, "crave" attention? From what I've read from Emily she is simply a very gentle, kind soul. Me? I actively seek to not be ANYONE'S center of attention. You're 0 for 2 here.

No religious people are gentle and kind souls. The follow their bible's literal teaching that encourages rape, murder, and destruction of anything or anybody that doesn't sign on to their medieval beliefs.

And to affirm that, they are currently attempting to distance themselves from the evil thier bibles teach by trying to say it's not to be taken literally.

Ask any christian who thinks he/she needs to blow off the 6000 year old earth nonsense in an attempt to stand with science's credibility.

You love it and you crave more because it's getting 'attention'.

No one takes or took the Bible literally.. That is pretty new.. since about 1840 ..

 

[Ziggy]

We don't have to argue or prove.
Just share what we perceive and understand, and we can have the same conversations about Life and Relationships and how to improve and make the most of what we have and know.

But you need and crave attention and that's the point. Anyone who tries to insulate religious bigots from criticism, becomes their own worst enemy.

LOL, "crave" attention? From what I've read from Emily she is simply a very gentle, kind soul. Me? I actively seek to not be ANYONE'S center of attention. You're 0 for 2 here.

No religious people are gentle and kind souls. The follow their bible's literal teaching that encourages rape, murder, and destruction of anything or anybody that doesn't sign on to their medieval beliefs.

And to affirm that, they are currently attempting to distance themselves from the evil thier bibles teach by trying to say it's not to be taken literally.

Ask any christian who thinks he/she needs to blow off the 6000 year old earth nonsense in an attempt to stand with science's credibility.

You love it and you crave more because it's getting 'attention'.

You don't know very many religious people do you
HUGS

 

[emilynghiem]

That's not what the bible says though.

Gentiles I guess would be athiests according to this description:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

I believe this "law" refers to the 10 commandments by default.
Basically saying that whether you profess a belief in God or you don't,
we still bring ourselves under the same set of basic rules of right and wrong.
Now Athiests I believe, If I'm reading that right, determine for themselves with each other what is acceptable or not.
I think everyone agrees Murder is Bad. Do you have to believe in God to agree with that? I don't think so.

It's not up to those that do believe to go seeking out those that aren't looking.
Think about Philip. God told Philip go check out that chariot. Philip just walking beside him said "what ya reading? "
And he was "INVITED" into the chariot to help explain what the man was reading.
He never said do it or else. The man chose at that point to follow.

Today it's like people feel they have to put up stop signs and roadblocks and force that chariot to stop and make them listen or else.
I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work.
And probably why there aren't much results today.
They are being chased away instead of allowing us to be drawn in.

If God wants a door to open, he'll open it. If not, no matter how much we storm the door, even if it falls, won't be successful.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

Christians will always be under attack. We were given a special set of armour to deflect those arrows.
We need to learn to use them.
Because we are misunderstood, misquoted, and a lot are just plain hypocrites. Do as I say not as I do.
What did Jesus call them?
The same thing Jesus told his disciples not to become as... Hypocrites.

Just walk the walk... let them see your light.
You don't need to blow a trumpet in central square breathing out judgements.
That's not our job.

God Bless
Hugs

I would translate terms like "under God" or "duty to God" to mean "for the public good" which is more universal language by natural laws all people are under regardless of having religion or not.

Ziggy Christian need not invoke attack.

The Bible warns that anyone presenting other than the ORIGINAL gospel or message someone has heard will be accursed, even an angel messenger.

This means we should speak the native language of the audience we address so there is no need to attack or reject.

Jesus as Justice, God's truth as universal, should fulfill not abolish the laws people have been given.

We change our delivery, we change our reception. Same message but the presentation changes to share with each audience, like Jesus using parables to make sense to everyday folks who wouldn't respond to the same Scripture Jesus reserved for holding Pharisees to their own laws.

Why not translate these terms into regular talk that means the same good things?

Faith in God and God's will means good will or greater good for all humanity.

Faith in Jesus is faith in Justice.

Christianity means Charity for all, or what Buddhists call Compassion while the Kingdom of God as Universal Truth that sets us free is called Wisdom and Salvation is called Enlightenment because Buddhism focuses on the Mind while Christianity on the Heart.

We are called to Love God with all our hearts minds and Souls.
We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves.

From these Two Great Commandments come all the other laws and Prophets.

In Buddhism, these correspond to the Two basic principles all the teachings come from:
Developing perfect Wisdom which is another name for God
Developing perfect Compassion which aligns with loving our neighbor, but goes further in including compassion for the planet, and all living beings in the world/creation

So when Jesus gives us the New Commandment, to love one another as He does, this is joining the love of man with the love of God. We now love not by reciprocal human love for mutual material reward, but we love as Jesus does with God's love that is limitless and unconditional.

So this fulfills and joins the Two Great Commandments as one, and the same love of God's Wisdom and Christian Charity or Compassion fulfills the Buddhist teachings as well.

When we speak the truth with love, or as Buddhists call practicing the Right Speech, this brings Comfort and Peace, not division and war.

I am glad to see the Boy Scouts promote positive values after the whole negative debacle over gender. I thought they should create a new Youth Scouts to include both Boys and Girls for open Family camping and activities.

I thought it was better to have separate Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts so groups can focus separately.

We can work out optimal solutions without fighting.

I was brought up as a Girl Scout and was taught to be a friend and helper to all.
If we do our job right, people will want us to help and be around, and will call on us.

If you don't practice what you preach, yes, people sense that and that is what usually incites reactions.

As for even good intentions meeting with mixed reactions, people have their own issues they project externally while sorting out what they really believe and want out of life. That projection is part of their process and not to be taken personally unless it is part of yours.

If it is part of your process, too, then it is not a bad thing to complain about.

Potterhead2021 asked how do we develop patience? By practicing talking and interacting with those who challenge us the most.

We learn from experience with each person. The good news is, the more we learn to speak the language of others, they equally learn to include and tolerate our ways of saying the same things.

When we understand the changes are mutual, and both sides stretch equally to meet in the middle, it isn't onesided where both sides defend themselves while pushing the other to change.

It's a mutual process of equal give and take.

There is no universal language yet though.
And everyone has their own interpretation.

We have this word racist or racism. A couple years ago it meant one thing. Today it means something totally different.
And when we try to communicate with people with this new "version" of what a word means..
there is just so much confusion. Not by the ones who changed it. They know exactly what they mean. But by the ones they changed it on. Like being left in a boat with no paddle. What are they talking about???

There are a lot of words and meanings of words that have been deliberately changed over the last few years for the very purpose of causing confusion and frustration.

How do we get over those hurdles?

If you try to explain that this word means this to me, they say your wrong, this is what it means.
This is a very difficult generation we are coming into.
I think words are going to have to take a back seat to actions.
We won't be able to say what we mean, we will only be able to show them.

Amo 5:13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time; for it is an evil time.

prudent:

Careful or wise in handling practical matters; exercising good judgment or common sense.

Characterized by or resulting from care or wisdom in practical matters or in planning for the future.

Thoughtful; judicious; sagacious; sensible.

I have to look a lot of things up. My education was rather lacking. I graduated the 8th grade with a 6th grade education, so sometimes big words or not common words confuse me. Thank You for your PATIENCE ..

Hugs

Dear Ziggy
To diffuse the language, I refer to
* bigotry and bias which we all have so this makes us equal, we are all affected and all have suffered from political bigotry by class or creed.
First step is to address each other as equals facing similar or the same battles.
We are not each other's enemies, we all want justice peace and and end to abuses. We just don't agree yet whose abuses are worse, whose caused who to abuse back etc.
Like Palestinians and Israeli we all want peace and protections and to stop the violence killing people on both sides.
2. I use the term racial conflicts or race related injuries which is more neutral and inclusive. Understanding genocidal or generational wounds are passed down and affect people spiritually also makes this inclusive without placing blame.

I have pointed out:
The rapes of Black (and some White) Slaves mostly by abusing Black males to breed stronger and darker skin slaves worth more on the market
Causes phobic hatred and fear triggered by Black men among both White and Blacks. This is spiritually caused by genocidal rape and forced breeding like cattle mortgaged like property as part of the land.

This rape we don't talk about because we cannot undo the damage.

But a lot of the suppressed racial hatred including Black on Black is carried from the genocidal and generation ills, including tribal curses from Africa that have caused endless genocide massacres and corruption of African govt tribes and nations there.

By addressing this as Spiritual, then this makes the healing and recovery process both individual to each person and collective for all humanity to grieve and suffer through.

No one is untouched.
But we all experience the echoes of bigotry and tribal wars in our own ways.

The key is connecting as WE going through universal battles.

Not Them vs Us.

We as women have suffered while politics plagues and plays on patriarchal tendencies to defend turf and pack mentality at all costs.

This pack mentality is behind men raping women of other tribes to control the pack.
And instead of helping women victims, the men clobber each other to defend their honor or dominate to be in charge.

So a lot of the karma or generational sins we see are from past genocides by tribes.

It isn't Black vs White, but pains of humanity repeating until we hand over all this grief over to God and quit trying to fight battles between tribes.

The Bahai have a nonprofit for teaching healing through safe dialogue sharing our own experiences and process without falling into group mentality.

If you would like to have zoom mtg or workshops, we could address women of faith caught in the crossfire and how do we help people on both sides of the left and right divide, uniting as Christians.

We have Christians on the right put on the defense as under attack. While the Christian left has defended LGBT BLM but more split over CRT.

How can we ask our fellow Christians on left and right to unite instead of taking sides politically?