Religion and Ethics - The topic of this USMB Discussion is an "oxymoron"

[RWS]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an "oxymoron"... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

 

[cnelsen]

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god.

Believing in an imaginary god doesn't make you religious. It just makes you wrong. Moreover, religion and ethics occupy the same realm--how we treat one another--and are therefore appropriately included under the same forum.

Ques: what does that mean "follow your morals"? Do you mean something like "go with your gut" or "act on impulse"?

 

[Boss]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

I guess they never taught you about "conjunctions" in school?

When you have a THING.... AND... Another THING... that can't be an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a single thing that contradicts itself. So, "religious ethics" might be an oxymoron, but not "Religion AND Ethics"... Moron!

 

[esthermoon]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

What you said it's not always true RWS
Religions can offers many kind and wise moral teachings. You can find in almost all religions.
Christianity, Buddhism, Induism and many other religions have something useful and good to teach
Even Islam has its own wise men (sufis)

 

[Boss]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

What you said it's not always true RWS
Religions can offers many kind and wise moral teachings. You can find in almost all religions.
Christianity, Buddhism, Induism and many other religions have something useful and good to teach
Even Islam has its own wise men (sufis)

I surmise that what we understand as human morality is derived from human spirituality or spiritual awareness. The reason for my summation is simple. The oldest remains of human civilizations we've ever unearthed display clear signs of human spiritual beliefs. We can understand that morals and ethics are vital to forming civilized societies in general. And since every old civilization we've discovered shows there was some form of spirituality, it stands to reason the spirituality was an important aspect of developing these moral and ethical civilizations among humans.

That's not necessarily an argument for religion or God, but I believe human spiritual belief preceded human civilizations. Indeed, it was the catalyst for civilization. Through whatever crude spiritual conception there was, humankind developed a set of basic fundamental ethics which were shared with others who were also, shall we say, "spiritually enlightened."

Of course, the God-deniers will reject this but there simply has to be a "first cause" argument for origins of trust which, in turn, enable morality and ethics. Without that first impetus of trust, nothing else is possible and civilizations couldn't have formed. The deniers will argue, oh, but man simply realized it was more beneficial to work together and cooperate... really? How did they come to realize this? At some point, one cave man had to trust another cave man not to kill him in the middle of the night and take his stuff. The realization that something greater than themselves would've sufficed to bolster this "first trust" between men.

 

[Unkotare]

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god.

Believing in an imaginary god doesn't make you religious. It just makes you wrong. ..."?

Oh look, another frightened, insecure atheist stumbling around in the dark and shouting to mask his existential terror.

 

[cnelsen]

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god.

Believing in an imaginary god doesn't make you religious. It just makes you wrong. ..."?

Oh look, another frightened, insecure atheist stumbling around in the dark and shouting to mask his existential terror.

Haha, you're out of your league.

 

[Unkotare]

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god.

Believing in an imaginary god doesn't make you religious. It just makes you wrong. ..."?

Oh look, another frightened, insecure atheist stumbling around in the dark and shouting to mask his existential terror.

Haha, you're out of your league.

What "league" do you imagine yourself to be in, champ?

 

[RWS]

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god.

Believing in an imaginary god doesn't make you religious. It just makes you wrong. Moreover, religion and ethics occupy the same realm--how we treat one another--and are therefore appropriately included under the same forum.

Ques: what does that mean "follow your morals"? Do you mean something like "go with your gut" or "act on impulse"?

I agree with your first two sentences. However, the third is the issue at hand. They do not occupy the same realm. They are opposites of each other.

You cannot have a religion that has not heavily disregarded ethics and morals. Because the only reason they are still a religion is that they killed, raped, and/or enslaved non-believers. They forced people into believing their religion, by threat of death or torture.

To me, that is not ethical or moral...

 

[RWS]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

I guess they never taught you about "conjunctions" in school?

When you have a THING.... AND... Another THING... that can't be an oxymoron. An oxymoron is a single thing that contradicts itself. So, "religious ethics" might be an oxymoron, but not "Religion AND Ethics"... Moron!

Are you being serious, or trying to be funny?

 

[RWS]

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god.

Believing in an imaginary god doesn't make you religious. It just makes you wrong. ..."?

Oh look, another frightened, insecure atheist stumbling around in the dark and shouting to mask his existential terror.

I disagree. I think it is you that are trying to mask your existential terror when you find out that your Santa Claus religion is wrong. And I understand that's why you have to fight for it, it's very scary for a believer once the shit finally hits the fan.

Non-believers don't worry about that stuff. We're just trying to do the best thing we can while we're here.

 

[RWS]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

What you said it's not always true RWS
Religions can offers many kind and wise moral teachings. You can find in almost all religions.
Christianity, Buddhism, Induism and many other religions have something useful and good to teach
Even Islam has its own wise men (sufis)

I surmise that what we understand as human morality is derived from human spirituality or spiritual awareness. The reason for my summation is simple. The oldest remains of human civilizations we've ever unearthed display clear signs of human spiritual beliefs. We can understand that morals and ethics are vital to forming civilized societies in general. And since every old civilization we've discovered shows there was some form of spirituality, it stands to reason the spirituality was an important aspect of developing these moral and ethical civilizations among humans.

That's not necessarily an argument for religion or God, but I believe human spiritual belief preceded human civilizations. Indeed, it was the catalyst for civilization. Through whatever crude spiritual conception there was, humankind developed a set of basic fundamental ethics which were shared with others who were also, shall we say, "spiritually enlightened."

Of course, the God-deniers will reject this but there simply has to be a "first cause" argument for origins of trust which, in turn, enable morality and ethics. Without that first impetus of trust, nothing else is possible and civilizations couldn't have formed. The deniers will argue, oh, but man simply realized it was more beneficial to work together and cooperate... really? How did they come to realize this? At some point, one cave man had to trust another cave man not to kill him in the middle of the night and take his stuff. The realization that something greater than themselves would've sufficed to bolster this "first trust" between men.

The oldest remains of human civilization we've ever unearthed say the exact opposite.

Subsequent texts like the OT 2000 years later, completely changed the original Sumerian texts, while still drawing their stories from it. They changed the many gods (or Anunnaki) into one single monotheistic, schizophrenic, "god" that most people still follow today. There's a reason why the biblical "god" was willing to smite us in one paragraph, yet loves us in the next.

 

[ding]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

I think Dr. Ron Paul addresses your logical fallacy pretty well when he said, "Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage."

 

[ding]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

Then of course there is what George Washington said which also refutes the premise of the OP, “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

 

[ding]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

It seems that you have taken the materialists view of the world. Where Karl Marx said, "communism is naturalized humanism." Is it your view that communism is ethical?

 

[RWS]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

What you said it's not always true RWS
Religions can offers many kind and wise moral teachings. You can find in almost all religions.
Christianity, Buddhism, Induism and many other religions have something useful and good to teach
Even Islam has its own wise men (sufis)

Religions do include many kind and wise teachings within their agenda. They need to in order to gain followers willing to donate, die, and kill for them.

But faith does not need that. Faith is a personal thing. There is no reason to follow some crazy religion if you're confident in your faith. There is no need to have to agree with others or have others agree with you.

Religions are inherently evil, even if you only follow the fruity ends. There is only one way a religion can exist for a long time, and that is by doing things that are not moral or ethical, in order to convert non-believers and sustain themselves financially.

Sorry, that's just the way it works. And the Pope recently apologized for past transgressions. While I really respect that, and like him, it still doesn't stop the past from happening again in the name of an imaginary being...

 

[ding]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

What you said it's not always true RWS
Religions can offers many kind and wise moral teachings. You can find in almost all religions.
Christianity, Buddhism, Induism and many other religions have something useful and good to teach
Even Islam has its own wise men (sufis)

Religions do include many kind and wise teachings within their agenda. They need to in order to gain followers willing to donate, die, and kill for them.

But faith does not need that. Faith is a personal thing. There is no reason to follow some crazy religion if you're confident in your faith. There is no need to have to agree with others or have others agree with you.

Religions are inherently evil, even if you only follow the fruity ends. There is only one way a religion can exist for a long time, and that is by doing things that are not moral or ethical, in order to convert non-believers and sustain themselves financially.

Sorry, that's just the way it works. And the Pope recently apologized for past transgressions. While I really respect that, and like him, it still doesn't stop the past from happening again in the name of an imaginary being...

Religion is not inherently evil. Evil is not extant. You blame religion for the failures of man.

 

[RWS]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

It seems that you have taken the materialists view of the world. Where Karl Marx said, "communism is naturalized humanism." Is it your view that communism is ethical?

Dude, you're a McCarthyist, on top of your fanatical religious beliefs...

Already been there, done that. So unless you adopt some new strategy, I'd hate to embarrass you again.

 

[ding]

Religion and Ethics....

You can have one, but not both.

You're either on the side of religions, which advocate very unethical things...

Or you're on the side of ethics and morals, which makes you doubt religions and the evil things they want and do...

It's an oxymoron... Which is why we're pitted here in endless arguments.

But I will tell you right now that ethics is way more important than belief in an imaginary god. And you don't need people to tell you how to follow your ethics or morals either. They are part of you. Anybody trying to tell you they're not, is selling something.

If you still need someone to tell you how to follow your morals in this day and age of knowledge and enlightenment, then you are ripe to be taken advantage of, and part of the problem in this world.

It seems that you have taken the materialists view of the world. Where Karl Marx said, "communism is naturalized humanism." Is it your view that communism is ethical?

Dude, you're a McCarthyist, on top of your fanatical religious beliefs...

Already been there, done that. So unless you adopt some new strategy, I'd hate to embarrass you again.

I don't believe you ever did. Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe.

 

[RWS]

ding, I have already proven that your quotes are not real, disprove your argument, or otherwise talk about a different subject (fake news).

Your input here, is not welcome anymore. You are a fanatic. There is no talking reason into you.

Honestly, you should shut up and listen and learn from these other people, who express things in much more rational ways.

And maybe we can have an honest discussion, without cussin and name-calling. So stay out.