Rare Thread: Some Progressive posts that actually make good points on how NOT to defund Police

[emilynghiem]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

 

[Darkwind]

Just curious, when you say,

"
... health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix. "

Are you trying to say that a battered spouse isn't a crime?

 

[Disir]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

No. Specifically: homeless, suicidal, domestic "disputes", overdose, protesting, high schools and suspicious looking people. Further, there will be a huge loss of taxes should that be initiated. So...........hope you all are willing to volunteer. Furthermore, you have no data to support this.

 

[toobfreak]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

You missed two, in the category of things police shouldn't handle:

1. Harassing families because small children actually are playing in their backyards during a Covid shutdown, then threatening to "shame" them on social media.
2. Responding to calls from asshole school principles because some student there ate a pop tart into the shape of a Luger, went "bang-bang" with his finger playing cops and robbers, or worse, during a Covid school closure amid a computer virtual classroom, "brought guns into the school" because his laptop computer actually caught images of his Daisy air BB rifle and bow and arrow hanging on his bedroom wall behind him!

 

[emilynghiem]

Just curious, when you say,

"
... health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix. "

Are you trying to say that a battered spouse isn't a crime?

The assault is already a crime. That's the part that does
become a violation of the civil and criminal laws.

The problem being missed is addressing the CAUSES of ABUSIVE DISORDERS
and RELATIONS BEFORE this RESULTS in a crime. Police and laws cannot do that!

The community setting up a process to identify, address, and resolve "complaints of abuse"
BEFORE any crime occurs would reduce the burdens on police.

IT WOULD ALSO REDUCE THE COSTS OF DAMAGES, PROSECUTION AND LAWSUITS,
AND INCARCERATION, SO INSTEAD OF DEFUNDING POLICE LESS AND LESS TAX MONEY
WOULD BE WASTED ON PUNISHMENT IN PRISONS AND CAN BE INVESTED IN PREVENTATION
EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, COUNSELING AND JOBS SOLVING PROBLEMS INSTEAD.

Same with abortion, drug laws, drunk driving, immigration and trafficking.
All of that can be PREVENTED by addressing Relationship abuse and addictive disorders
to REDUCE the demand for drugs, trafficking etc.

We could eliminate 80-90% of these cases that otherwise escalate into crimes
if we start taking ABUSE seriously.

But ABUSE starts with INTERNAL and RELATIONSHIP issues that are
NOT crimes. So that's where the majority of the work needs to be focused.

Govt CANNOT intervene on this level.

It is TOO EXPENSIVE for taxpayers to ignore the problem "until it becomes a crime for police."
Incarceration can cost 25-50K a year per person, where those people cannot work
and become dependent on tax paid welfare, housing and other subsidies as well as their families
left without support when a parent goes to jail.
We wouldn't need to raise more taxes to pay for health care, education, etc.
if we redirect money wasted "after the fact" and invest it in jobs and internships in preventative care,
not just health care, but daycare and elderly care to create paid jobs instead of more welfare.

 

[Yarddog]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

Its worth thinking about but there is a lot of gray area. Do you realize that in many cities people deal drugs all day long out of or near public parks? Some of these areas see a lot of drug traffic so in the case of PEOPLE STANDING IN A PARK, .... I hope the new police will also be armed to protect themselves because they are going to run into a lot of unexpected situations.

 

[emilynghiem]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

No. Specifically: homeless, suicidal, domestic "disputes", overdose, protesting, high schools and suspicious looking people. Further, there will be a huge loss of taxes should that be initiated. So...........hope you all are willing to volunteer. Furthermore, you have no data to support this.

Dear Disir Yes I already volunteer and support nonprofits, both personally and financially,
to keep their outreach going that has saved countless lives and costs to taxpayers by
breaking the cycle of sickness and poverty to prevent more crime, abuse, violence and trafficking.

These groups with the right solutions are underfunded, while millions in taxes and donations
goes to politicians promising to fix things but never do.

I've been lobbying forever, and yes, me and my friends who do this work are volunteering
mostly unpaid. There are only 1-2 who have managed to get situated where they are getting paid,
but their volunteer work is still the majority of their outreach and they are worth a lot more.

These solutions do not get anyone elected to office on empty promises.
So the money keeps going elsewhere!

The most critical outreach that saves the most lives, most resources and would resolve most of
the conflicts is the Spiritual Healing approach that is 100% free and has cured people of
both criminal addictions and disorders, as well as cases of cancer, diabetes etc.
And has healed the RELATIONSHIPS between people that otherwise fuel divisive destructive
politics adding additional costs and burdens to taxpayers stuck without solutions.

This is well established, and includes medical research studies:
www.christianhealingmin.org

But it is NOT popular politically.
The only person in politics coming close to focusing on healing solutions
is Marianne Williamson but she lacks the ability to translate this into political policies.

I am trying to work with her support team, and maybe with the help of Black Christian
ministers and prison ministries with EXPERIENCE in healing and rehab with ex convicts,
the LONG ESTABLISHED approaches of Christian healing ministry, recovery and rehab
can be INCLUDED in the demands for police and prison reforms.

This hasn't been popular with LIBERALS who started DEMONIZING Christians
over the prochoice/prolife issue, as well as LGBT.

But the Christian healing approach to solving problems at the root
is the best way I know to break the cycles of abuse, poverty and oppression.

It cannot be ignored, but must be included.

Yes Disir I have been volunteering, helping and funding any number of the programs.
And there IS medically documented proof that the Spiritual Healing methods work.

It is the politicizing in the media, particularly DEMONIZATION OF CHRISTIAN PRAYER AND PRACTICE,
that has OBSTRUCTED THESE SOLUTIONS from being more widely shared and adopted by
the mainstream. When these are the best solutions I have found.
The help is FREE, completely VOLUNTARY, and provides sustainable
cost effective solutions that HEAL relationships all around the people participating,
so the positive impact and influence MULTIPLES to become sustainable.

Here are some of my favorite nonprofit groups that have been spreading
the healing process FOR FREE because of the multiple levels and layers of benefits:
www.rachelschallenge.org
www.apvusa.org
www.centerhealingracism.org

Log in or sign up to view

See posts, photos and more on Facebook.

www.facebook.com

for Christian Spiritual Healing specifically:
www.christianhealingmin.org <-- HEALING (edition 1999 or later) by Francis MacNutt specifically cites the medical studies on healing effects of team prayer methods on rheumatoid arthritis, and includes references to healing Schizophrenia
www.healingisyours.com
Because most of the testimonies I have found are anecdotal since every case is different:
www.ariseandshine.org
I am putting together support teams to pursue further formal medical research studies
on treating and curing schizophrenia, eating disorders, and criminal illness such as pedophilia
that I believe will lead to segregating dangerously sick people in secure "teaching hospitals"
that I recommend building along the border to stabilize areas plagued by criminal predators and trafficking.
www.earnedamnesty.org
The places to set up safe studies can be integrated in military prisons and hospitals
there as part of border security, so this will free up resources in every city by separating
the people who AGREE to participate in law enforcement and comply with authorities
vs. people with criminal disorders who are unable and legally incompetent.

http://www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/letters.html#DEATH_ALTERNATIVE

 

[pknopp]

They shouldn't be tax (revenue) collectors either.

 

[emilynghiem]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

Its worth thinking about but there is a lot of gray area. Do you realize that in many cities people deal drugs all day long out of or near public parks? Some of these areas see a lot of drug traffic so in the case of PEOPLE STANDING IN A PARK, .... I hope the new police will also be armed to protect themselves because they are going to run into a lot of unexpected situations.

Dear Yarddog
First step is to separate which people are capable of addressing abuse issues,
and which are criminally incompetent or so addicted they cannot agree to comply with help.

What I suggest to to the police unions (and teacher unions) facing this whole
issue of defunding police or meeting medical precautions to keep safe from infection,
is for unions to implement CONDITIONS for safety in order for professionals to work in any districts.

I would recommend requiring that ALL RESIDENTS of their districts
AGREE to screening, training and compliance with laws and safety standards.
And if they cannot agree to follow laws and to sign in advance to pay for
legal costs and damages for any premeditated crimes, then they would
agree to go through conflict resolution to identify the policy or conflict preventing compliance.

Either the issue is something that can be resolved.
Or if not, then the people involved need to separate jurisdiction
and agree not to impose the costs of their policies on others.

So if people WANT to make money off drug distribution,
what are the rules? Can the districts agree to BAR selling drugs
to people with addictions without medical approval and monitoring?

What is the standard they agree on?

Will residents agree to spiritual and medical screening to find any latent
abuse or addictive disorder and treat it so that is no longer an issue?

Will prolife and prochoice advocates agree to ADD preventative measures
against sex abuse and abortion if they are going to agree on mask policies?

Find out what are people's standards against abuse,
and organize ways where each district agrees on standard policies,
screen and either counseling therapy or conflict resolution to address
complaints or conflicts that arise.

That is the MINIMUM I would recommend to police, teachers
and medical professionals to work in these districts.

The medics and first responders are already facing heightened risk of
exposure to infection with every incident they handle.

So why not require that these incidents be kept to a MINIMUM
by requiring all citizens and residents of each district to comply with laws
and get help for any complaint or issue of abuse or conflict that would
otherwise escalate into a problem that burdens police or medics?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Personally, I don't see a need for state troopers to be hiding every 10 miles on interstates to snag someone who is doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They protect and serve. They could be in the local towns helping out folks.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They shouldn't be tax (revenue) collectors either.

I agree with that. The IRS are cowards. They should have the balls to show up to your house and collect if they accuse you of not paying enough.

 

[pknopp]

They shouldn't be tax (revenue) collectors either.

I agree with that. The IRS are cowards. They should have the balls to show up to your house and collect if they accuse you of not paying enough.

It's not just that. The police are directed to go out and drum up revenue by pulling over X number of motorists. That creates distrust.

 

[emilynghiem]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

You missed two, in the category of things police shouldn't handle:

1. Harassing families because small children actually are playing in their backyards during a Covid shutdown, then threatening to "shame" them on social media.
2. Responding to calls from asshole school principles because some student there ate a pop tart into the shape of a Luger, went "bang-bang" with his finger playing cops and robbers, or worse, during a Covid school closure amid a computer virtual classroom, "brought guns into the school" because his laptop computer actually caught images of his Daisy air BB rifle and bow and arrow hanging on his bedroom wall behind him!

Yes toobfreak
The conflict resolution and assistance to address complaints and abuse
that this whole process would require
would inevitably bring out these very conflicts to be addressed up front.

Instead of waiting until the point of confrontation.

If people don't agree on mask or gun policy, we should address that up front.
I've been doing that for the longest time, starting with abortion politics, then
getting into political beliefs in general and facilitating discussions as we do here on USMB.

The number one way I know to stop the bullying is to respect
people's beliefs and start formulating solutions that INCLUDE those, not attacking or excluding
people by coercion as is the main strategy in politics.

It is a completely different approach to seek INCLUSION and equal
representation of people's input and consent, regardless of their beliefs.

That is a key factor that makes all the difference.

By the time we even set up a forum or conference to discuss solutions
we can all agree on, this whole business of bullying people for their beliefs
will get addressed in that process.

It is the Elephant (or Donkey) in the room.
The biggest discrimination going on is bigotry against political beliefs and parties,
that Discriminate by Creed by rewarding politicians for bashing each other this way!

 

[emilynghiem]

They shouldn't be tax (revenue) collectors either.

I agree with that. The IRS are cowards. They should have the balls to show up to your house and collect if they accuse you of not paying enough.

LordBrownTrout
I actually agree with Ted Cruz to reform the entire IRS process.

I think the way this will go down: Giving tax breaks for people and groups to invests
in their own solutions to police and health care. This will redirect the majority of
resources into preventative programs managed locally by districts to support democratic self-government.

Instead of seeing the demand to "defund police" as a negative self-defeating move.
We can use this to settle old prochoice/prolife issues of defunding abortion,
defunding public schools. And open up a process by which ALL parties can organize
their tax base per district and fund the schools, health care and police policies they
want by setting up their own campus management. By subtracting all the resources
invested in building local representation and solutions, this will reduce what is paid
to federal govt for ONLY the policies that ALL citizens, parties and groups agree to fund.

Everything else we disagree on can be better managed, funded and determined
on local levels, through states or even parties if that's the best way to coordinate collective resources.

The IRS and federal govt would then go back to their original intended limits
of only managing the minimal policies necessary for Constitutional govt that reflects consent of the people.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They shouldn't be tax (revenue) collectors either.

I agree with that. The IRS are cowards. They should have the balls to show up to your house and collect if they accuse you of not paying enough.

It's not just that. The police are directed to go out and drum up revenue by pulling over X number of motorists. That creates distrust.

I agree with that. They don't need to be at every interstate median crossing every 5 miles, playing with speed guns, handing out citations for doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They could be in town helping folks or the needy or taking prescription drugs to seniors. To protect and to serve.

 

[pknopp]

They shouldn't be tax (revenue) collectors either.

I agree with that. The IRS are cowards. They should have the balls to show up to your house and collect if they accuse you of not paying enough.

It's not just that. The police are directed to go out and drum up revenue by pulling over X number of motorists. That creates distrust.

I agree with that. They don't need to be at every interstate median crossing every 5 miles, playing with speed guns, handing out citations for doing 10 miles over the speed limit. They could be in town helping folks or the needy or taking prescription drugs to seniors. To protect and to serve.

See, people can agree on reforms.

 

[Disir]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

No. Specifically: homeless, suicidal, domestic "disputes", overdose, protesting, high schools and suspicious looking people. Further, there will be a huge loss of taxes should that be initiated. So...........hope you all are willing to volunteer. Furthermore, you have no data to support this.

Dear Disir Yes I already volunteer and support nonprofits, both personally and financially,
to keep their outreach going that has saved countless lives and costs to taxpayers by
breaking the cycle of sickness and poverty to prevent more crime, abuse, violence and trafficking.

These groups with the right solutions are underfunded, while millions in taxes and donations
goes to politicians promising to fix things but never do.

I've been lobbying forever, and yes, me and my friends who do this work are volunteering
mostly unpaid. There are only 1-2 who have managed to get situated where they are getting paid,
but their volunteer work is still the majority of their outreach and they are worth a lot more.

These solutions do not get anyone elected to office on empty promises.
So the money keeps going elsewhere!

The most critical outreach that saves the most lives, most resources and would resolve most of
the conflicts is the Spiritual Healing approach that is 100% free and has cured people of
both criminal addictions and disorders, as well as cases of cancer, diabetes etc.
And has healed the RELATIONSHIPS between people that otherwise fuel divisive destructive
politics adding additional costs and burdens to taxpayers stuck without solutions.

This is well established, and includes medical research studies:
www.christianhealingmin.org

But it is NOT popular politically.
The only person in politics coming close to focusing on healing solutions
is Marianne Williamson but she lacks the ability to translate this into political policies.

I am trying to work with her support team, and maybe with the help of Black Christian
ministers and prison ministries with EXPERIENCE in healing and rehab with ex convicts,
the LONG ESTABLISHED approaches of Christian healing ministry, recovery and rehab
can be INCLUDED in the demands for police and prison reforms.

This hasn't been popular with LIBERALS who started DEMONIZING Christians
over the prochoice/prolife issue, as well as LGBT.

But the Christian healing approach to solving problems at the root
is the best way I know to break the cycles of abuse, poverty and oppression.

It cannot be ignored, but must be included.

Yes Disir I have been volunteering, helping and funding any number of the programs.
And there IS medically documented proof that the Spiritual Healing methods work.

It is the politicizing in the media, particularly DEMONIZATION OF CHRISTIAN PRAYER AND PRACTICE,
that has OBSTRUCTED THESE SOLUTIONS from being more widely shared and adopted by
the mainstream. When these are the best solutions I have found.
The help is FREE, completely VOLUNTARY, and provides sustainable
cost effective solutions that HEAL relationships all around the people participating,
so the positive impact and influence MULTIPLES to become sustainable.

Here are some of my favorite nonprofit groups that have been spreading
the healing process FOR FREE because of the multiple levels and layers of benefits:
www.rachelschallenge.org
www.apvusa.org
www.centerhealingracism.org

Log in or sign up to view

See posts, photos and more on Facebook.

www.facebook.com

for Christian Spiritual Healing specifically:
www.christianhealingmin.org <-- HEALING (edition 1999 or later) by Francis MacNutt specifically cites the medical studies on healing effects of team prayer methods on rheumatoid arthritis, and includes references to healing Schizophrenia
www.healingisyours.com
Because most of the testimonies I have found are anecdotal since every case is different:
www.ariseandshine.org
I am putting together support teams to pursue further formal medical research studies
on treating and curing schizophrenia, eating disorders, and criminal illness such as pedophilia
that I believe will lead to segregating dangerously sick people in secure "teaching hospitals"
that I recommend building along the border to stabilize areas plagued by criminal predators and trafficking.
www.earnedamnesty.org
The places to set up safe studies can be integrated in military prisons and hospitals
there as part of border security, so this will free up resources in every city by separating
the people who AGREE to participate in law enforcement and comply with authorities
vs. people with criminal disorders who are unable and legally incompetent.

http://www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/letters.html#DEATH_ALTERNATIVE

So, you have no data and you are not equipped to step in then.

 

[Darkwind]

Just curious, when you say,

"
... health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix. "

Are you trying to say that a battered spouse isn't a crime?

The assault is already a crime. That's the part that does
become a violation of the civil and criminal laws.

The problem being missed is addressing the CAUSES of ABUSIVE DISORDERS
and RELATIONS BEFORE this RESULTS in a crime. Police and laws cannot do that!

The community setting up a process to identify, address, and resolve "complaints of abuse"
BEFORE any crime occurs would reduce the burdens on police.

IT WOULD ALSO REDUCE THE COSTS OF DAMAGES, PROSECUTION AND LAWSUITS,
AND INCARCERATION, SO INSTEAD OF DEFUNDING POLICE LESS AND LESS TAX MONEY
WOULD BE WASTED ON PUNISHMENT IN PRISONS AND CAN BE INVESTED IN PREVENTATION
EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, COUNSELING AND JOBS SOLVING PROBLEMS INSTEAD.

Same with abortion, drug laws, drunk driving, immigration and trafficking.
All of that can be PREVENTED by addressing Relationship abuse and addictive disorders
to REDUCE the demand for drugs, trafficking etc.

We could eliminate 80-90% of these cases that otherwise escalate into crimes
if we start taking ABUSE seriously.

But ABUSE starts with INTERNAL and RELATIONSHIP issues that are
NOT crimes. So that's where the majority of the work needs to be focused.

Govt CANNOT intervene on this level.

It is TOO EXPENSIVE for taxpayers to ignore the problem "until it becomes a crime for police."
Incarceration can cost 25-50K a year per person, where those people cannot work
and become dependent on tax paid welfare, housing and other subsidies as well as their families
left without support when a parent goes to jail.
We wouldn't need to raise more taxes to pay for health care, education, etc.
if we redirect money wasted "after the fact" and invest it in jobs and internships in preventative care,
not just health care, but daycare and elderly care to create paid jobs instead of more welfare.

I'll have to get back to you on this one, but as far as I know, no crystal ball has ever worked and we don't live in a minority report world.

People do have rights and one of those rights is the right of innocent until proven guilty. You cannot just say, "So and so is likely to abuse his wife, or such and such is going to shoot her husband."

It doesn't work that way.

 

[emilynghiem]

Two of my Progressive Friends on FB actually shared posts I agree on with
how NOT to defund Police. YES -- Police should NOT be burdened with
"social work" of dealing with domestic relations, homeless or mentally ill.

But all citizens cannot be deprived of police because of the grievances of some.
If people want to reorganize districts to pay for police and law enforcement policies
SEPARATE from social work and health care intervention, I have long rallied to set
up a SEPARATE police for "health and safety" and quit criminalizing issues of
drug and relationship abuse that require counseling and healing therapy, not punishment to fix.

Here are the posts I've found, so far. Please feel free to add any more
FROM PROGRESSIVE SOURCES to show where Sides can AGREE.

NOTE: we see PLENTY of pro police posts and rebuttals from the Right.
What I find insightful is where people on the LEFT are also posting better
solutions instead of being purely "anti police." Have you found other good posts like these?

View attachment 356306

Lori Lightfoot, Mayor of Chicago, on Who’s Hurt by Defunding Police (Published 2020)

“You are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks.”

www.nytimes.com

Lori Lightfoot on NOT defunding Police in a way that harms communities:

So is it fair to say that even in this moment, you don’t believe you have the political capital to start a conversation about defunding? When I hear this issue around defunding, I hear, “We don’t have enough resources in communities of color, and you spend way too much on the police.” I agree with that piece. But let’s break down the practicalities of what defunding means. In our Police Department, about 90 percent of the budget is personnel. When you talk about defunding, you’re talking about getting rid of officers. Most of our diversity lies in the junior officers. So when you’re talking about defunding the police, you’re talking about doing it in a context of a collective-bargaining agreement that requires you to go in reverse seniority, which means you’re getting rid of the younger officers. Which means you’re getting rid of black and brown people. Which means you are eliminating one of the few tools that the city has to create middle-class incomes for black and brown folks. Nobody talks about that in the discussion to defund the police.

No. Specifically: homeless, suicidal, domestic "disputes", overdose, protesting, high schools and suspicious looking people. Further, there will be a huge loss of taxes should that be initiated. So...........hope you all are willing to volunteer. Furthermore, you have no data to support this.

Dear Disir Yes I already volunteer and support nonprofits, both personally and financially,
to keep their outreach going that has saved countless lives and costs to taxpayers by
breaking the cycle of sickness and poverty to prevent more crime, abuse, violence and trafficking.

These groups with the right solutions are underfunded, while millions in taxes and donations
goes to politicians promising to fix things but never do.

I've been lobbying forever, and yes, me and my friends who do this work are volunteering
mostly unpaid. There are only 1-2 who have managed to get situated where they are getting paid,
but their volunteer work is still the majority of their outreach and they are worth a lot more.

These solutions do not get anyone elected to office on empty promises.
So the money keeps going elsewhere!

The most critical outreach that saves the most lives, most resources and would resolve most of
the conflicts is the Spiritual Healing approach that is 100% free and has cured people of
both criminal addictions and disorders, as well as cases of cancer, diabetes etc.
And has healed the RELATIONSHIPS between people that otherwise fuel divisive destructive
politics adding additional costs and burdens to taxpayers stuck without solutions.

This is well established, and includes medical research studies:
www.christianhealingmin.org

But it is NOT popular politically.
The only person in politics coming close to focusing on healing solutions
is Marianne Williamson but she lacks the ability to translate this into political policies.

I am trying to work with her support team, and maybe with the help of Black Christian
ministers and prison ministries with EXPERIENCE in healing and rehab with ex convicts,
the LONG ESTABLISHED approaches of Christian healing ministry, recovery and rehab
can be INCLUDED in the demands for police and prison reforms.

This hasn't been popular with LIBERALS who started DEMONIZING Christians
over the prochoice/prolife issue, as well as LGBT.

But the Christian healing approach to solving problems at the root
is the best way I know to break the cycles of abuse, poverty and oppression.

It cannot be ignored, but must be included.

Yes Disir I have been volunteering, helping and funding any number of the programs.
And there IS medically documented proof that the Spiritual Healing methods work.

It is the politicizing in the media, particularly DEMONIZATION OF CHRISTIAN PRAYER AND PRACTICE,
that has OBSTRUCTED THESE SOLUTIONS from being more widely shared and adopted by
the mainstream. When these are the best solutions I have found.
The help is FREE, completely VOLUNTARY, and provides sustainable
cost effective solutions that HEAL relationships all around the people participating,
so the positive impact and influence MULTIPLES to become sustainable.

Here are some of my favorite nonprofit groups that have been spreading
the healing process FOR FREE because of the multiple levels and layers of benefits:
www.rachelschallenge.org
www.apvusa.org
www.centerhealingracism.org

Log in or sign up to view

See posts, photos and more on Facebook.

www.facebook.com

for Christian Spiritual Healing specifically:
www.christianhealingmin.org <-- HEALING (edition 1999 or later) by Francis MacNutt specifically cites the medical studies on healing effects of team prayer methods on rheumatoid arthritis, and includes references to healing Schizophrenia
www.healingisyours.com
Because most of the testimonies I have found are anecdotal since every case is different:
www.ariseandshine.org
I am putting together support teams to pursue further formal medical research studies
on treating and curing schizophrenia, eating disorders, and criminal illness such as pedophilia
that I believe will lead to segregating dangerously sick people in secure "teaching hospitals"
that I recommend building along the border to stabilize areas plagued by criminal predators and trafficking.
www.earnedamnesty.org
The places to set up safe studies can be integrated in military prisons and hospitals
there as part of border security, so this will free up resources in every city by separating
the people who AGREE to participate in law enforcement and comply with authorities
vs. people with criminal disorders who are unable and legally incompetent.

http://www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/letters.html#DEATH_ALTERNATIVE

So, you have no data and you are not equipped to step in then.

Dear Disir
I would say the PPC nonprofit cooperative can meet the
standard of data you seek and proof they are able to step in.

1. The PPC medical nonprofit has the data on the impact
of cooperatives on health care coverage and costs. Over
10 years and 2500 members in Houston (where only 1500 is needed to
operate a self-managed program) including about 600 providers.

2. Yes, the PPC foundation has already stepped in to create
a 2500 member cooperative in Houston, and is currently
renovating a hospital in Dallas with govt grants.

That is ENOUGH leverage to set up cooperative structures.

The rest will follow from there, because EACH district will DECIDE
the terms of their Cooperative DEMOCRATICALLY to represent THOSE members.

If people cannot make the change to cooperative relations
when there is DATA ON THE MEDICAL BENEFITS
they aren't ready for the other changes anyway.

(The NUMBER ONE problem I've run into is NOT the numbers,
but the POLITICAL CULTURE of people ENGRAINED to DEPEND ON GOVT
to handle community and health care decisions. The average person cannot
immediately change their minds to ENVISION being liberated and able to
manage their own districts and medical provisions democratically.
It's more a psychological barrier until they see other people or
leaders mentoring community members to manage their own programs.)

If you want data on something tangible that can be shown,
Don McCormick has collected this for actuarial documentation
on PPC for medical contracts, licensing and insurance policies.

Otherwise, you can never change anything
if you need to have the data before even setting up the
studies to GET the data.

However, the key issue in reform is not the data, because it's there.
The problem is "number alone" are not the only factor needed to
motivate change in people's confidence they can manage their own programs.

 

[pknopp]

Here we go. Another example of what police officers should NOT be doing. He is now likely to lose his job over this.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article243865902.html

Also, law enforcement officials should NOT be able to act in an official law enforcement role when working for a private business.