Zone1 Race Relations and School Discipline

[DGS49]

Barbara S. Held: In some schools, children get police tickets for misbehavior. Black children get more

Black people in America have long been perceived as more dangerous than white people, resulting in racialized criminal injustices. That perception seemingly...

www.post-gazette.com

[Referring to the City of Pittsburgh school district] "One out of every 70 Black students was issued a summary citation, compared with 1 out of every 400 white students. Black students were issued over 80% of summary citations despite their 53% enrollment in the Pittsburgh school district."

In 1960, if a study had shown that, let's say, "Negro" yoots were five times more likely to be disciplined for disruptive behavior than "white" students, the public reaction would have been, "Those Negroes are a real problem in our schools."

The same (or similar) headline today spawns the assumption that something in the "system" is racist. That's the only possible reason why Blacks are disciplined more often than whites.

But a closer looks blows that theory out of the water. What teacher or administrator today would risk a charge of racial discrimination over a disciplinary action? NONE OF THEM. Unless the evidence is clear and unambiguous against a Black student, the complaint will be dropped; against a white student? Not so much.

If Black students are being disciplined at a higher rate than white students, believe it. There is no "systemic racism" in northern urban schools. None. The real systemic racism is against the unfortunate whites in those schools, whose parents can't afford to send them elsewhere.

 

[Friends]

Because blacks have a murder rate that is nearly eight times the white rate, it is reasonable to assume that blacks in public schools are much more likely to be discipline problems than white students.

Civilization civilizes, but the process is evolutionary, and takes many generations. During most of history in civilized countries criminals were killed at the scene of the crime, they died in custody, or they were executed. There was no effort at rehabilitation. It is rarely effective. The few children some criminals had rarely lived to adulthood.

Consequently, gene alleles that predispose people toward crime were removed from the genomes of the two races that have practiced civilization the longest. This is why the two civilized races of whites and Orientals behave the best in school, and have the lowest crime rates.

The process of human evolution has not prepared most Negroes for characteristics necessary to contribute positively to civilization. These are intelligence, obedience to the law, and monogamy.

 

[alexa]

It is beyond indecent that American children have policemen watching over them and giving them charges which last for life for the tiniest of school offenses which the teachers should be dealing with and research showed that the police were indeed racist when dealing with these trivial matters which have been blown out of all proportion to something which follows the kid round their whole life rather than being a 1 hour detention.


[/quote]
The three categories on which there was the least difference were: Escape/attempted escape, sexual violations, theft. Racial discrepancies were close to zero for the more objective categories, the ones that required harder evidence.[/quote]
op link

Thumbs down to American care of children.

 

[Friends]

It is beyond indecent that American children have policemen watching over them and giving them charges which last for life

It is beyond indecent that in some public schools the police need to protect students who want to learn from juvenile delinquents who cannot be educated, and who violently interfere with the education of students who want to learn.

By the time a juvenile delinquent is flushed down the toilet to the school to prison pipeline for decades of hard labor, enforced by the whip, his backside should be covered by scars and scabs.

 

[alexa]

It is beyond indecent that in some public schools the police need to protect students who want to learn from juvenile delinquents who cannot be educated, and who violently interfere with the education of students who want to learn.

By the time a juvenile delinquent is flushed down the toilet to the school to prison pipeline for decades of hard labor, enforced by the whip, his backside should be covered by scars and scabs.

What then is so wrong with your society that you have children who have their lives ruined for being accused of some minor misdemeanour at school for which as I said they would otherwise get a detention and it would be forgotten. We don't have police in our schools arresting children for saying something,, an arrest which will follow them through their lives. No we don't do that. We stick with the detention scheme. It sounds to me that adults in the US have no ability to control children - an ability which usually goes hand in hand with other necessities like giving the child respect and something to work for. All you people can do is put in people whose job is to deal with adult criminals to police the children. America has a very poor approach to children's wellbeing,

 

[Friends]

What then is so wrong with your society that you have children who have their lives ruined for being accused of some minor misdemeanour at school for which as I said they would otherwise get a detention and it would be forgotten. We don't have police in our schools arresting children for saying something,, an arrest which will follow them through their lives. No we don't do that. We stick with the detention scheme. It sounds to me that adults in the US have no ability to control children - an ability which usually goes hand in hand with other necessities like giving the child respect and something to work for. All you people can do is put in people whose job is to deal with adult criminals to police the children. America has a very poor approach to children's wellbeing,

You are under estimating the dangerous environment black majority public schools usually have. They are particularly dangerous for whites, Asians, and blacks who "act white" by trying to learn.

 

[alexa]

Looks like I was wrong there about my country not allowing police in schools though I have never heard of it before. However it appears the attitude is quite different to that in the US

Teachers backed a motion banning officers in schools from disciplining children or charging them with crimes. And Helen Connor, vice-president of the union, said she wanted police removed from schools completely.

Ms Connor said she was concerned schemes which bring officers into schools could turn teachers into "grasses" and criticised the practice of officers being parachuted into schools without consulting teachers.

Teachers hit out at 'campus cops'

TEACHERS have hit out at police officers stationed in Scotland's schools. Members of the EIS, Scotland's largest teaching union, have voted overwhelmingly for tougher limits on their powers amid fears that teachers were, in effect, being used as informers.

www.scotsman.com

That is Scotland. England has a lot more police in schools but I doubt they can arrest children for misbehaviour which teachers have plenty of experience of disciplining themselves and very much doubt they can get a lifelong criminal record for some misbehaviour at school.

I am going to have to look at this police in UK schools in a bit more depth.

 

[alexa]

You are under estimating the dangerous environment black majority public schools usually have. They are particularly dangerous for whites, Asians, and blacks who "act white" by trying to learn.

That appears to be the attitude which led to the black children being more often arrested for minor misdemeanours for which there was no possibility of evidence.

Having to grow up knowing that many people see you like that is no doubt one of the reasons which holds black kids back. If children are behaving badly consistently then the chances are that they are dealing with some trauma. Dealing with that will sort it out.

 

[alexa]

Looks like I was wrong there about my country not allowing police in schools though I have never heard of it before. However it appears the attitude is quite different to that in the US

Teachers hit out at 'campus cops'

TEACHERS have hit out at police officers stationed in Scotland's schools. Members of the EIS, Scotland's largest teaching union, have voted overwhelmingly for tougher limits on their powers amid fears that teachers were, in effect, being used as informers.

www.scotsman.com

That is Scotland. England has a lot more police in schools but I doubt they can arrest children for misbehaviour which teachers have plenty of experience of disciplining themselves and very much doubt they can get a lifelong criminal record for some misbehaviour at school.

I am going to have to look at this police in UK schools in a bit more depth.

Yes, it looks like police in the UK act very differently to police in the US in schools. Firstly of course our police are not carrying guns. Their main role seems to be giving children information as to what constitutes a crime etc but they are also used to help children with problems. For instance one policeman made friends with one very difficult boy who hated authority and through that was able to form a relationship with him which drew him back from the edge and ended with him accepting those in charge. British Police do not arrest children for being naughty. They do not give children a life long criminal record.

 

[themirrorthief]

Barbara S. Held: In some schools, children get police tickets for misbehavior. Black children get more

Black people in America have long been perceived as more dangerous than white people, resulting in racialized criminal injustices. That perception seemingly...

www.post-gazette.com

[Referring to the City of Pittsburgh school district] "One out of every 70 Black students was issued a summary citation, compared with 1 out of every 400 white students. Black students were issued over 80% of summary citations despite their 53% enrollment in the Pittsburgh school district."

In 1960, if a study had shown that, let's say, "Negro" yoots were five times more likely to be disciplined for disruptive behavior than "white" students, the public reaction would have been, "Those Negroes are a real problem in our schools."

The same (or similar) headline today spawns the assumption that something in the "system" is racist. That's the only possible reason why Blacks are disciplined more often than whites.

But a closer looks blows that theory out of the water. What teacher or administrator today would risk a charge of racial discrimination over a disciplinary action? NONE OF THEM. Unless the evidence is clear and unambiguous against a Black student, the complaint will be dropped; against a white student? Not so much.

If Black students are being disciplined at a higher rate than white students, believe it. There is no "systemic racism" in northern urban schools. None. The real systemic racism is against the unfortunate whites in those schools, whose parents can't afford to send them elsewhere.

if you grow up in a flucked up home without a father ...shit happens

 

[Friends]

That appears to be the attitude which led to the black children being more often arrested for minor misdemeanours for which there was no possibility of evidence.

Having to grow up knowing that many people see you like that is no doubt one of the reasons which holds black kids back. If children are behaving badly consistently then the chances are that they are dealing with some trauma. Dealing with that will sort it out.

Black kids who are held back are held back by lack of intelligence and criminal behavior. The traumas endemic to black neighborhoods are caused by blacks, not whites. Slums are the products of the people who live in them.

The only thing criminals understand is punishment. Being nice to them encourages them.

 

[Friends]

if you grow up in a flucked up home without a father ...shit happens

Why is the high black illegitimacy rate the fault of whites?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Yes, it looks like police in the UK act very differently to police in the US in schools. Firstly of course our police are not carrying guns. Their main role seems to be giving children information as to what constitutes a crime etc but they are also used to help children with problems. For instance one policeman made friends with one very difficult boy who hated authority and through that was able to form a relationship with him which drew him back from the edge and ended with him accepting those in charge. British Police do not arrest children for being naughty. They do not give children a life long criminal record.

More and more of your police are carrying guns. The criminal culture that respected the police is long dead, replaced by one of general violence that views police and interfering targets of opportunity.

 

[TheParser]

Barbara S. Held: In some schools, children get police tickets for misbehavior. Black children get more

Black people in America have long been perceived as more dangerous than white people, resulting in racialized criminal injustices. That perception seemingly...

www.post-gazette.com

[Referring to the City of Pittsburgh school district] "One out of every 70 Black students was issued a summary citation, compared with 1 out of every 400 white students. Black students were issued over 80% of summary citations despite their 53% enrollment in the Pittsburgh school district."

In 1960, if a study had shown that, let's say, "Negro" yoots were five times more likely to be disciplined for disruptive behavior than "white" students, the public reaction would have been, "Those Negroes are a real problem in our schools."

The same (or similar) headline today spawns the assumption that something in the "system" is racist. That's the only possible reason why Blacks are disciplined more often than whites.

But a closer looks blows that theory out of the water. What teacher or administrator today would risk a charge of racial discrimination over a disciplinary action? NONE OF THEM. Unless the evidence is clear and unambiguous against a Black student, the complaint will be dropped; against a white student? Not so much.

If Black students are being disciplined at a higher rate than white students, believe it. There is no "systemic racism" in northern urban schools. None. The real systemic racism is against the unfortunate whites in those schools, whose parents can't afford to send them elsewhere.

The administration of the Honorable Barack Obama decided that two ethnicities (no need to be specific) were being singled out for suspension for "defiance."

Thus, his Administration forbade schools to suspend any student for "defiance." The "punishment" is now restorative justice.

The teacher and the defiant student sit down together with a moderator. The teacher pours out his/her heart; the student pours out his/her heart ("It's my right to sit where I want. No teacher has the right to tell me where to sit in a classroom" or "I ignored the teacher's request to put away my phone. My girlfriend had called me. I don't want to lose her").

When the teacher heard the defiant student, s/he started to cry and replied, "I now better understand why you were defiant. I apologize for reporting you."

The defiant student answered: "OK, I forgive you this time. But don't let it happen again!."

 

[alexa]

More and more of your police are carrying guns. The criminal culture that respected the police is long dead, replaced by one of general violence that views police and interfering targets of opportunity.

Sure they are when they can say they are dealing with someone who probably has one or terrorists..but not in our schools. They are not acting like in the US. going in among children with guns and arresting them and charging them for misbehaving. A charge which they must carry and admit to all life long. Your teachers no longer know how to disciple naught children.

 

[alexa]

Black kids who are held back are held back by lack of intelligence and criminal behavior. The traumas endemic to black neighborhoods are caused by blacks, not whites. Slums are the products of the people who live in them.

The only thing criminals understand is punishment. Being nice to them encourages them.

Better to just hang them straight away eh?

 

[Unkotare]

What then is so wrong with your society that you have children who have their lives ruined for being accused of some minor misdemeanour at school for which as I said they would otherwise get a detention and it would be forgotten. We don't have police in our schools arresting children for saying something,, an arrest which will follow them through their lives. No we don't do that. We stick with the detention scheme. It sounds to me that adults in the US have no ability to control children - an ability which usually goes hand in hand with other necessities like giving the child respect and something to work for. All you people can do is put in people whose job is to deal with adult criminals to police the children. America has a very poor approach to children's wellbeing,

 

[Friends]

What then is so wrong with your society that you have children who have their lives ruined for being accused of some minor misdemeanour at school for which as I said they would otherwise get a detention and it would be forgotten. We don't have police in our schools arresting children for saying something,, an arrest which will follow them through their lives. No we don't do that. We stick with the detention scheme. It sounds to me that adults in the US have no ability to control children - an ability which usually goes hand in hand with other necessities like giving the child respect and something to work for. All you people can do is put in people whose job is to deal with adult criminals to police the children. America has a very poor approach to children's wellbeing,

Anyone who has taught in an inner city school knows that they are rife with offenses far more serious than minor misdemeanors.

 

[Unkotare]

Anyone who has taught in an inner city school knows that they are rife with offenses far more serious than minor misdemeanors.

Have you?

 

[Friends]

Have you?

Fortunately not. I have talked to people who did.