Question to LGBTQ+ supporters

[Rawley]

You can use any pronoun you want. I’m not sure who would be bothered by it...but apparently some folks are.

You can get fire for using the wrong pronoun.

Va. Supreme Court backs fired teacher who refused to use transgender student’s pronouns • Virginia Mercury

The Supreme Court of Virginia has revived a lawsuit against a school board that fired a teacher for not using a transgender student's requested pronouns.

virginiamercury.com

 

[TheGreatSatan]

Except transgender girls aren't boys.



Um, no, they are both meant to demean.



If I walk up to my boss and say, "You are a complete moron and you don't know what you are doing!!!" I can expect consequences. The notion that you can say whatever you want without consequences is silly. You should anticipate those consequences before you open your damn mouth.

A trans girl is a boy that has been sexually assaulted.

Democrats like this believe you can claim you're a woman and that makes you one.

What is a woman? Democrats say all you have to do is say you are and poof. You're a woman.

 

[sparky]

Hiding one's true identity is what this is all about

~S~

 

[whitehall]

Would the pronoun "it" be appropriate if you quacked like a duck?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

How does a non-binary person kill someone? They / them!

 

[ThisIsMe]

Except transgender girls aren't boys.



Um, no, they are both meant to demean.



If I walk up to my boss and say, "You are a complete moron and you don't know what you are doing!!!" I can expect consequences. The notion that you can say whatever you want without consequences is silly. You should anticipate those consequences before you open your damn mouth.

Um, no, they are both meant to demean.

I disagree. Just because a biological man identifies as a woman doesn’t mean everyone else has to. Some people don’t agree that there can be …70ish genders and over 60 neopronouns. Some people believe that you are either male or female. They dont believe that because the are trying to be mean, they believe it because…that’s just what they believe. So, when a trans woman comes up and demands they be called ma’am, and the other person doesn’t, it doesn’t mean they are trying to be disrespectful, it’s just how they believe. The person who getting angry because the other person won’t submit, to the point of becoming violent….those are the ones who are disrespectful.

You have the right to call yourself whatever you want, you don’t have the right to infringe on other people’s rights and force others to your way of thinking. If you do, then what makes you any better than the person who refuses to use your pronouns?

If I walk up to my boss and say, "You are a complete moron and you don't know what you are doing!!!" I can expect consequences

Correct, because you are an employee of a company and that is your boss. It would be expected that you abide by the rules of the company and treat others with respect and not harassment.

The notion that you can say whatever you want without consequences is silly. You should anticipate those consequences before you open your damn mouth

At work? No, everywhere else? Yes. Free speech includes speech you don’t like. If someone offends you on the street and you attack them, they can press charges for assault and you will go to jail for assault but they won’t go to jail for calling you a name.

Now, I know, because you’re looking for any reason to pounce, I’ll say this. I’m not suggesting you should go around calling people bad names, that’s impolite, but I am suggesting that free speech covers people’s right to say some of the worst things..

You also have the right to not be offended. If someone calls you a name and you react violently…that says as much about you as it does the person who said it.

 

[TheGreatSatan]

I disagree. Just because a biological man identifies as a woman doesn’t mean everyone else has to. Some people don’t agree that there can be …70ish genders and over 60 neopronouns. Some people believe that you are either male or female. They dont believe that because the are trying to be mean, they believe it because…that’s just what they believe. So, when a trans woman comes up and demands they be called ma’am, and the other person doesn’t, it doesn’t mean they are trying to be disrespectful, it’s just how they believe. The person who getting angry because the other person won’t submit, to the point of becoming violent….those are the ones who are disrespectful.

You have the right to call yourself whatever you want, you don’t have the right to infringe on other people’s rights and force others to your way of thinking. If you do, then what makes you any better than the person who refuses to use your pronouns?




Correct, because you are an employee of a company and that is your boss. It would be expected that you abide by the rules of the company and treat others with respect and not harassment.



At work? No, everywhere else? Yes. Free speech includes speech you don’t like. If someone offends you on the street and you attack them, they can press charges for assault and you will go to jail for assault but they won’t go to jail for calling you a name.

Now, I know, because you’re looking for any reason to pounce, I’ll say this. I’m not suggesting you should go around calling people bad names, that’s impolite, but I am suggesting that free speech covers people’s right to say some of the worst things..

You also have the right to not be offended. If someone calls you a name and you react violently…that says as much about you as it does the person who said it.

Democrats literally believe that if a man claims to be a woman, he is one, and everyone has to play along, or else...

 

[JoeB131]

I disagree. Just because a biological man identifies as a woman doesn’t mean everyone else has to. Some people don’t agree that there can be …70ish genders and over 60 neopronouns. Some people believe that you are either male or female. They dont believe that because the are trying to be mean, they believe it because…that’s just what they believe. So, when a trans woman comes up and demands they be called ma’am, and the other person doesn’t, it doesn’t mean they are trying to be disrespectful, it’s just how they believe. The person who getting angry because the other person won’t submit, to the point of becoming violent….those are the ones who are disrespectful.

You have the right to call yourself whatever you want, you don’t have the right to infringe on other people’s rights and force others to your way of thinking. If you do, then what makes you any better than the person who refuses to use your pronouns?

except most companies will fire you now for using the wrong pronouns or Deadnaming a trans coworker. Your side has already lost this argument.

At work? No, everywhere else? Yes. Free speech includes speech you don’t like. If someone offends you on the street and you attack them, they can press charges for assault and you will go to jail for assault but they won’t go to jail for calling you a name.

Now, I know, because you’re looking for any reason to pounce, I’ll say this. I’m not suggesting you should go around calling people bad names, that’s impolite, but I am suggesting that free speech covers people’s right to say some of the worst things..

You also have the right to not be offended. If someone calls you a name and you react violently…that says as much about you as it does the person who said it.

Here's the thing, before i waste any more time on your sophistry. If you call someone a name and they beat you up, it's usually your own damned fault. It's why they have a "Fighting words" doctrine in the law.

“Fighting Words,” What is and is not Protected Free Speech - Wosnik Law

Georgia's "Fighting Words" statute may allow police to charge someone with a crime for using insults, profanity, or abusive language.

wosniklaw.com

Subsection (a)(3) of O.C.G.A. § 16-11-39 states that a person commits Disorderly Conduct when they say to another person “opprobrious or abusive words which by their very utterance tend to incite to an immediate breach of the peace, that is to say, words which as a matter of common knowledge and under ordinary circumstances will…naturally tend to provoke violent resentment…commonly called ‘Fighting Words.’”

So what does that mean? Basically, Fighting Words are any words which are likely to start a fight, riot, public disturbance, or any other “breach of the peace.” Usually, these are profanities and/or racial slurs, but they don’t have to be. For example, Georgia courts have found that yelling “This man here is a dog!” can be enough under the right circumstances (Brooks v. State, 166 Ga. App. 704 (1983)). But that’s the thing, it’s not just the words themselves that are important, but where, how, and to whom the Defendant says them.

Here are some of the most common situations where we’ve seen people charged with using Fighting Words:

• People yelling or cursing at police officers.
• Family members having loud arguments.
• Students (usually high schoolers) cursing at teachers or each other.
• People using racial slurs or racist language in public.

Each of these situations can potentially constitute a crime under Georgia law, but not always. Again, it all depends on the circumstances.

Correct, because you are an employee of a company and that is your boss. It would be expected that you abide by the rules of the company and treat others with respect and not harassment.

But what if my boss really is a complete moron and doesn't know what he's doing?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Democrats literally believe that if a man claims to be a woman, he is one, and everyone has to play along, or else...

I’m all for a man calling himself whatever he wants. You see, I DO understand the issue of gender identity and how it affects some people. They are not doing this to be trendy (well, some people do, but not most), but, some of these people really do struggle, and if I see they are not being forceful about it, I’ll even call them whatever they want to be called. Doesn’t mean I have to believe it, but out of respect, I will. However, that respect and tolerance HAS to go both ways. There are simply some people who don’t agree and will never use the preferred pronoun, and I am fine with that too. I don’t expect them to be mean or insulting about it, that would be wrong, and I would be against that, but at the same time, the trans community has to realize that not everyone will be as accommodating. It doesn’t mean they are hating them, it just means they are not in agreement.

 

[sartre play]

EXCEPT for the sports deal,
just do not see why any one would be interested,
Unless you have a perverted investment in different sex?

 

[ThisIsMe]

except most companies will fire you now for using the wrong pronouns or Deadnaming a trans coworker. Your side has already lost this argument.



Here's the thing, before i waste any more time on your sophistry. If you call someone a name and they beat you up, it's usually your own damned fault. It's why they have a "Fighting words" doctrine in the law.

“Fighting Words,” What is and is not Protected Free Speech - Wosnik Law

Georgia's "Fighting Words" statute may allow police to charge someone with a crime for using insults, profanity, or abusive language.

wosniklaw.com

Subsection (a)(3) of O.C.G.A. § 16-11-39 states that a person commits Disorderly Conduct when they say to another person “opprobrious or abusive words which by their very utterance tend to incite to an immediate breach of the peace, that is to say, words which as a matter of common knowledge and under ordinary circumstances will…naturally tend to provoke violent resentment…commonly called ‘Fighting Words.’”

So what does that mean? Basically, Fighting Words are any words which are likely to start a fight, riot, public disturbance, or any other “breach of the peace.” Usually, these are profanities and/or racial slurs, but they don’t have to be. For example, Georgia courts have found that yelling “This man here is a dog!” can be enough under the right circumstances (Brooks v. State, 166 Ga. App. 704 (1983)). But that’s the thing, it’s not just the words themselves that are important, but where, how, and to whom the Defendant says them.

Here are some of the most common situations where we’ve seen people charged with using Fighting Words:

• People yelling or cursing at police officers.
• Family members having loud arguments.
• Students (usually high schoolers) cursing at teachers or each other.
• People using racial slurs or racist language in public.

Each of these situations can potentially constitute a crime under Georgia law, but not always. Again, it all depends on the circumstances.


But what if my boss really is a complete moron and doesn't know what he's doing?

except most companies will fire you now for using the wrong pronouns or Deadnaming a trans coworker. Your side has already lost this argument.

Oh, no doubt. I fully concede that the trans community has won the fight, and has been successful in getting the hammer of corporate America to enforce their will on other people. That’s ever apparent. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but it is what it is.

2Here's the thing, before i waste any more time on your sophistry. If you call someone a name and they beat you up, it's usually your own damned fault. It's why they have a "Fighting words" doctrine in the law.

fighting words

www.law.cornell.edu

So, i had to look up rhe fighting words doctrine because i had never actually heard that as a matter of law. What I found was, in 1942, the case your article cited, the infraction was someone using agitating words against an officer…but it still was enforced. In 1949 the scope of “fighting words” are narrowed to mean word that are a threat or imminent danger.

Over the next few years, the definition has changed, but, none of the cases seem to condone or allow for any kind of retaliation, so at the end, if you attack someone, you’ll be charged with assault and possibly, depending on the current scotus definitions, the offending person could be charged.

But what if my boss really is a complete moron and doesn't know what he's doing?

You still work FOR a company who has placed that person in charge of you, therefore, you have to abide by their rules.

 

[Curried Goats]

Not calling someone by their preferred pronouns and calling someone the N word are two different things. One is a racial insult, the other is a difference of opinion.

They're both seen as insulting by the people on the receiving end. The only thing that makes one insult more meaningful to you is your own subjective opinion.

I’m not disagreeing with you that there are consequences, because that’s where the left has taken us. We’re at the point of “do what we want or we’ll hurt you”.

You say you have freedom of speech but not the freedom of consequence, I say, if there are consequences, then there is no freedom of speech.

What kind of confused argument is this? Freedom from consequences of your speech would leave people free to use their speech to threaten other people with violence or endanger lives by shouting fire in crowded spaces. You just dont want consequences for your speech but that's just too damn bad.

What laws? You mean company policies? Yeah, because companies have caved to the woke agenda. They’ve allowed one group to completely take control, demanding things of other people that they may not agree with. It’s literally “my opinion is more important than yours”…that’s exactly what it boils down to.

As I said, consequences come in all forms. There are legal consequences to making violent threats against other people. There could be financial consequences for defaming someone as our former President just found out. There could be consequences to your employment if you violate company policy by insulting your co-workers or social consequences like people not wanting to date people from a particular political party.

As would be expected. The N word is a racial slur, meant to hurt people.

Trans people find your unwillingness to address them as they ask you to to be pretty hurtful as well.

You mean someone who disagrees with you? Is that a bad thing?

No, I mean you understand perfectly well that there are consequences for your speech you're just salty about it. When I flipped the script just a little you argued my speech could result in people around me thinking I have a mental disorder but when it's your speech making people around you think you're a disgusting bigot suddenly you don't understand what's going on.

If there are any slaver lovers around, I’m right there with ya, but the fact that you have the freedom to do that, yet expect that others cannot have the freedom to speak THEIR minds on things such as pronouns, is part of the problem.

In what way do you imagine I want to deny you the right to be a hateful bigot? You can call people whatever you want, you can't stop us from thinking that when you do you're a deplorable mutant and treat you accordingly.

Again, you all want freedom of speech to go one way.

No, you just cry like a little bitch when your speech isn't being supported by the mainstream. Too fucking bad Soy Boy bitch.

 

[ThisIsMe]

They're both seen as insulting by the people on the receiving end. The only thing that makes one insult more meaningful to you is your own subjective opinion.

What kind of confused argument is this? Freedom from consequences of your speech would leave people free to use their speech to threaten other people with violence or endanger lives by shouting fire in crowded spaces. You just dont want consequences for your speech but that's just too damn bad.

As I said, consequences come in all forms. There are legal consequences to making violent threats against other people. There could be financial consequences for defaming someone as our former President just found out. There could be consequences to your employment if you violate company policy by insulting your co-workers or social consequences like people not wanting to date people from a particular political party.

Trans people find your unwillingness to address them as they ask you to to be pretty hurtful as well.

No, I mean you understand perfectly well that there are consequences for your speech you're just salty about it. When I flipped the script just a little you argued my speech could result in people around me thinking I have a mental disorder but when it's your speech making people around you think you're a disgusting bigot suddenly you don't understand what's going on.

In what way do you imagine I want to deny you the right to be a hateful bigot? You can call people whatever you want, you can't stop us from thinking that when you do you're a deplorable mutant and treat you accordingly.

No, you just cry like a little bitch when your speech isn't being supported by the mainstream. Too fucking bad Soy Boy bitch.

They're both seen as insulting by the people on the receiving end.

Then perhaps the problem is with the person receiving it. Leftism has taught them that they have to view everything as an attack when its more likely it’s not

The only thing that makes one insult more meaningful to you is your own subjective opinion.

No, first we need to dispel the notion that the pronoun issue is an insult. In many cases, it’s not, but only because the trans person gets in hyper anger mode if you don’t respect their pronouns, does it become an insult..to them.
How about, instead of always assuming that people are attacking them, they realize that some people just don’t agree. Stop always assuming it’s an attack.

What kind of confused argument is this? Freedom from consequences of your speech would leave people free to use their speech to threaten other people with violence

Threatening someone is not protected speech. If you threaten harm to someone, that is unlawful..but saying something that someone else finds offensive… that is protected.

violence or endanger lives by shouting fire in crowded spaces

actually, yelling fire in a crowded theater isn’t against the law. That’s an old myth.

You just dont want consequences for your speech but that's just too damn bad.

No…I just want free speech to be….free.

How about this…you’ve called me some pretty nasty things over my time here…does this mean I have a right to try and retaliate against you in some way?

The answer is no…because your free speech to call me many horrible things is protected. I just chose to ignore all that stuff..it’s not worth my time.

There are legal consequences to making violent threats against other people

Agreed, threats are not considered protected speech.

There could be financial consequences for defaming someone as our former President just found out.

Which is an injustice being carried out on Trump….SHE is the one who defamed HIM. She had no proof of her allegations, whatsoever.

That whole case will hopefully be tossed on appeal. You can’t sue someone for denying your allegations of rape lol

There could be consequences to your employment if you violate company policy by insulting your co-workers

Yep, you must abide by the rules of your work place.

or social consequences like people not wanting to date people from a particular political party.

I wouldn’t call that a consequence…just a personal opinion…and probably doing that person a favor because if their politics are such that it dictates how they live their lives…probably best you didn’t date them anyway.

Trans people find your unwillingness to address them as they ask you to to be pretty hurtful as well.

Then they need to learn to be tolerant. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to just demand that other people conform to what you want. That’s not how the world works. We are all allowed to have our own thoughts and opinions, and should be free to not be forced into complying with an idea that some don’t agree with, and stop letting liberalism con them into thinking every disagreement with them is about hate. It’s just not always that way.

When I flipped the script just a little you argued my speech could result in people around me thinking I have a mental disorder

I was just suggesting that if you walk around calling people “fucktard” that people might look at you weird..

but when it's your speech making people around you think you're a disgusting bigot

I’m a bigot because I say people should have free speech, and be free from being forced into using alternate pronouns they don’t agree with? I guess that’s an opinion….typical response from a lefty though, when you have an opposing argument that you just start throwing out insults..

In what way do you imagine I want to deny you the right to be a hateful bigot?

lol, more insults. Your issue is that you think every disagreement with you is somehow bigotry. Have you ever considered trying to see the other side of an argument? Maybe it’s not coming from a place of hate, but rather from a place of freedom, on both sides.

you can't stop us from thinking that when you do you're a deplorable mutant and treat you accordingly.

You’re right, I can’t stop you from thinking…or saying..anything…and I’m not trying to. Your opinion of me is your right, and you have the right to express that..which you do..often. And I have the right to take those insults and summarily dismiss them, because they are pointless and worthless, and not worth my time. What I DONT have the right to do is to retaliate against you, or hurt you or try to harm you for your opinions…because that is your first ammenmend right. Unless you threaten me, or try some kind of harm toward me, you have the freedom to say anything that comes into your mind about me. Now, I have a choice as to what to do with that information, I could either let it upset me, and affect me, or I can just ignore it, as pointless banter. I choose the second option. But I do enjoy reading the insults..some of them are quite funny….

…like this one…

No, you just cry like a little bitch when your speech isn't being supported by the mainstream. Too fucking bad Soy Boy bitch.

lol

 

[Dragonlady]

Please tell me why I should use "Preferred pronouns"? I am a "HE" There is no "Choice" involved.

If you are introduced to someone named named "Ichabod" and he says to you "Call me Bud". That's what my family and friends call me". Are you going to stand there and say "No. Your name is Ichabod and I'm not going to call you 'Bud' or anything else, because that's not who you are!"? How is using someone's preferred pronouns any different?

How someone prefers to be addressed is no skin off my nose, and it costs me nothing to accommodate them. I don't go through my life looking for things to get pissed off about or offended by. I have enough real issues and problems to be concerned about. This is a real non-issue.

I keep asking why it bothers poster here so much to accommodate these requests and not one person has answered the question.

 

[Curried Goats]

Then perhaps the problem is with the person receiving it. Leftism has taught them that they have to view everything as an attack when its more likely it’s not

You mean people disagree with you? Imagine that.

No, first we need to dispel the notion that the pronoun issue is an insult. In many cases, it’s not, but only because the trans person gets in hyper anger mode if you don’t respect their pronouns, does it become an insult..to them.

You dont get to say what's insulting for others, only yourself. That's how subjective opinions work, dummy.

How about, instead of always assuming that people are attacking them, they realize that some people just don’t agree. Stop always assuming it’s an attack.

How about you take your own advice and understand some people are going to disagree with your assessment and find it to be an insulting attack?

Threatening someone is not protected speech. If you threaten harm to someone, that is unlawful..but saying something that someone else finds offensive… that is protected.

You're protected from criminal consequences not social or finicial ones like losing your job because you called a coworker the N word. That isn't criminal but it will get you fired.

actually, yelling fire in a crowded theater isn’t against the law. That’s an old myth.

It's the potential consequences from it that can be harmful. If you cause a panic where people are injured because as a joke you decided to yell fire in a crowded theater then there will be consequences for that speech.

No…I just want free speech to be….free.

of consequence. I know. It doesn't work like that Snowflake.

How about this…you’ve called me some pretty nasty things over my time here…does this mean I have a right to try and retaliate against you in some way?

Sure, with in legal limits. You can't assault me but you can certainly call me names as well or maybe tell people I called you names in order to drum up sympathy. You could even try to find my employer and tell them the mean things I said about you and try and get me fired. If my own words got me in trouble with friends or employers, who's fault would that be? It seems like all you're doing is crying because people have attributed things you've said to you and have expressed the opinion that they found them disagreeable. If you're that ashamed of the things you said then don't say them.

The answer is no…because your free speech to call me many horrible things is protected. I just chose to ignore all that stuff..it’s not worth my time.

Your speech is just as protected as mine. Stop acting like a brittle little bitch.

Agreed, threats are not considered protected speech.


Which is an injustice being carried out on Trump….SHE is the one who defamed HIM. She had no proof of her allegations, whatsoever.

They had a whole ass trial about it. He lost. That's not an injustice, it is the justice system in action. Apparently your definition of justice isn't a fair trial but you winning, always. Anything less is tyranny I suppose.

That whole case will hopefully be tossed on appeal. You can’t sue someone for denying your allegations of rape lol

He was found civilly liable for sexual assault. The defamation came after he denied the objective reality of that judgment.

Yep, you must abide by the rules of your work place.


I wouldn’t call that a consequence…just a personal opinion…and probably doing that person a favor because if their politics are such that it dictates how they live their lives…probably best you didn’t date them anyway.


Then they need to learn to be tolerant. I’m sorry, but you don’t get to just demand that other people conform to what you want.

You dont see the humor in saying this as you're demanding others conform to your idea of tolerance?

Are you really that oblivious? Wow.... just.... wow....

That’s not how the world works. We are all allowed to have our own thoughts and opinions, and should be free to not be forced into complying with an idea that some don’t agree with, and stop letting liberalism con them into thinking every disagreement with them is about hate. It’s just not always that way.

I don't even know what you mean when you say you're being forced to comply. By your job? We all are in some way. I don't get to call my boss whatever I feel like either. I'm sure he'd be pretty intolerant if I decided to start calling him Nancy.

I was just suggesting that if you walk around calling people “fucktard” that people might look at you weird..

And if you walk around calling trans people by a pronoun they asked you not to, on purpose, people might think you're a bigot. I agree with what you're saying above, I don't see why you think it should be any different for you down here.

I’m a bigot because I say people should have free speech, and be free from being forced into using alternate pronouns they don’t agree with?

No, you're a bigot if you insist on calling trans people by a pronoun they asked you not to. You know exactly what we're talking about. Why come with this pussy strawman shit? It's really no different then if you asked me to call you Jeff and I said naw, I'm going to call you fuck face instead because I think that suits you better.

I guess that’s an opinion….typical response from a lefty though, when you have an opposing argument that you just start throwing out insults..

Is purposely insulting people bad? I'll believe you mean that when you agree purposefully calling people something they asked you not to is insulting no matter what you're calling them.

lol, more insults. Your issue is that you think every disagreement with you is somehow bigotry. Have you ever considered trying to see the other side of an argument? Maybe it’s not coming from a place of hate, but rather from a place of freedom, on both sides.

Why arent you then respecting my freedom to call you a disgusting bigot? Seems like you're not living up to your own stated values.

You’re right, I can’t stop you from thinking…or saying..anything…and I’m not trying to. Your opinion of me is your right, and you have the right to express that..which you do..often. And I have the right to take those insults and summarily dismiss them, because they are pointless and worthless, and not worth my time. What I DONT have the right to do is to retaliate against you, or hurt you or try to harm you for your opinions…because that is your first ammenmend right. Unless you threaten me, or try some kind of harm toward me, you have the freedom to say anything that comes into your mind about me. Now, I have a choice as to what to do with that information, I could either let it upset me, and affect me, or I can just ignore it, as pointless banter. I choose the second option. But I do enjoy reading the insults..some of them are quite funny….

…like this one…




lol

Who's arguing it should be okay to harm you for calling someone the wrong pronoun?

 

[g5000]

Please tell me why I should use "Preferred pronouns"? I am a "HE" There is no "Choice" involved.

You poor snowflake. Are words hurting you?

Tissue?

 

[ThisIsMe]

You mean people disagree with you? Imagine that.

You dont get to say what's insulting for others, only yourself. That's how subjective opinions work, dummy.

How about you take your own advice and understand some people are going to disagree with your assessment and find it to be an insulting attack?

You're protected from criminal consequences not social or finicial ones like losing your job because you called a coworker the N word. That isn't criminal but it will get you fired.

It's the potential consequences from it that can be harmful. If you cause a panic where people are injured because as a joke you decided to yell fire in a crowded theater then there will be consequences for that speech.

of consequence. I know. It doesn't work like that Snowflake.

Sure, with in legal limits. You can't assault me but you can certainly call me names as well or maybe tell people I called you names in order to drum up sympathy. You could even try to find my employer and tell them the mean things I said about you and try and get me fired. If my own words got me in trouble with friends or employers, who's fault would that be? It seems like all you're doing is crying because people have attributed things you've said to you and have expressed the opinion that they found them disagreeable.

Your speech is just as protected as mine. Stop acting like a brittle little bitch.

They had a whole ass trial about it. He lost. That's not an injustice, it is the justice system in action. Apparently your definition of justice isn't a fair trial but you winning, always. Anything less is tyranny I suppose.

He was found civilly liable for sexual assault. The defamation came after he denied the objective reality of that judgment.

You dont see the humor in saying this as you're demanding others conform to your idea of tolerance?

Are you really that oblivious? Wow.... just.... wow....

I don't even know what you mean when you say you're being forced to comply. By your job? We all are in some way. I don't get to call my boss whatever I feel like either. I'm sure he'd be pretty intolerant if I decided to start calling him Nancy.

And if you walk around calling trans people by a pronoun they asked you not to, on purpose, people might think you're a bigot. I agree with what you're saying above, I don't see why you think it should be any different for you.

No, you're a bigot if you insist on calling trans people by a pronoun they asked you not to. You know exactly what we're talking about. Why come with this pussy strawman shit? It's really no different then if you asked me to call you Jeff and I said naw, I'm going to call you fuck face instead because I think that suits you better.

Is purposely insulting people bad? I'll believe you mean that when you agree purposefully calling people something they asked you not to is insulting no matter what you're calling them.

Why arent you then respecting my freedom to call you a disgusting bigot? Seems like you're not living up to your own stated values.

Who's arguing it should be okay to harm you for calling someone the wrong pronoun?

You mean people disagree with you? Imagine that.

This makes no sense. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. It is not my mission in life to force others into compliance with my way of thinking. That’s kind of my whole point.

You dont get to say what's insulting for others, only yourself. That's how subjective opinions work, dummy.

You’re right, I don’t get to determine how other people feel, I’m simply saying that we need to stop the left from feeding them all these lies about “if they don’t address you by your desired pronouns, it’s because of hate”. That’s not not always true

How about you take your own advice and understand some people are going to disagree with your assessment and find it to be an insulting attack?

I welcome the disagreement. I don’t have a problem with it. It’s just that I’m not going to try and force people to agree with me, under penalty of punishment. If they find that insulting that some people may not choose to use their pronouns, then they need to understand that they can’t force their ideas onto other people, and they need to stop thinking everything is an attack.

If they take offense to someone not using a pronoun, then it’s because they are unwilling to accept that they can’t force others to agree with them. Just understand that not everyone is going to agree, nor should they have to.

You're protected from criminal consequences not social or finicial ones like losing your job because you called a coworker the N word. That isn't criminal but it will get you fired.

I agree, if you break the rules at work and use that kind of language, you should be fired. I have no gripes about that.

of consequence. I know. It doesn't work like that Snowflake.

In every day life? Yes…thata what having free speech is all about. Outside of controlled places like work, if you start limiting speech, then where is the cut off. Maybe think you should be prohibited from insulting people..should we cut that off? Or maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to voice your opinion on republicans..that might offend someone..should we cut that off? Who’s free speech can we infringe upon next?

The whole idea of FREE speech is being able to speak without consequence..with the exception of threats or breaking work rules. If you start limiting speech…then anyone who takes even slight offense to something can punish you. Do you think it’s possible for us to live in a world where people never say anything rude or offensive?

Also..just for you

Sure, with in legal limits. You can't assault me

Right. I can’t, nor would I. That would be wrong. You are entitled to your opinion.

but you can certainly call me names as well or maybe tell people I called you names in order to drum up sympathy.

I could, but I wouldn’t..it’s just not my style.

You could even try to find my employer and tell them the mean things I said about you and try and get me fired.

No, i couldn’t. That would be crossing a line, because, unless you used threats or intended some harm, doing what you suggest would be a violation of your 1A rights and it would be wrong for me to do that. I take my own advice. I have the right to not be offended, and I choose to exercise that right.

If my own words got me in trouble with friends or employers, whose fault would that be?

You would have to answer to your employer, as for your friends…that’s for you to work out with them.

It seems like all you're doing is crying because people have attributed things you've said to you and have expressed the opinion that they found them disagreeable.

The only thing I’ve said is, you shouldn’t be able to force others into compliance with your ideas and against their ideas…in this case, pronouns. And the only opinion I’ve expressed about their disagreement is that it’s completely fine, and I’m not going to try and force you to agree with me, and I would expect other people would feel the same about you trying to force them to agree with you.

Your speech is just as protected as mine. Stop acting like a brittle little bitch

Apparently it’s not…otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

He was found civilly liable for sexual assault. The defamation came after he denied the objective reality of that judgment.

He was found guilty on the preponderance of evidence, which there was zero evidence. She was basically able to convince a jury that it’s possible that he could have done it, in New York..it probably wasn’t hard to find jury to make that determination.

The fact is, she provided zero evidence that he assaulted her..further more, it was her fault he even made the denial because she printed an unsubstantiated claim in her column, and when he denied it, she claimed defamation. Also, the sexual assault verdict and the initial defamation verdict were a part of the same trial. When it was over, and Trump maintained that he never touched her, because she had no evidence, she sued him again.

Again, it should go down on appeal. It’s a bogus case.

You dont see the humor in saying this as you're demanding others conform to your idea of tolerance?

Are you really that oblivious? Wow.... just.... wow....

No, because I’m not the one demanding other agree with me, I’m saying they need to exercise tolerance in that they are trying to demand that other people accept THEIR idea. They shouldn’t be expected that they can make demands of others people and those people are just supposed to fall over in compliance. You can ask them to respect your pronouns, but that should be the extent of it. If they choose not to, then you should just go about your day and not expect that you can beat everyone into submission

don't even know what you mean when you say you're being forced to comply. By your job? We all are in some way. I don't get to call my boss whatever I feel like either. I'm sure he'd be pretty intolerant if I decided to start calling him Nancy.

Again, work rules are work rules. I was talking about more just in every day life.

And if you walk around calling trans people by a pronoun they asked you not to, on purpose, people might think you're a bigot

And that would be fine, that’s their opinion. They, however, would be wrong, because their calling me a bigot would just show that they are unwilling to accept that I may not disagree with their views, and they can’t cudgel me into agreement, so they are going to throw labels.

No, you're a bigot if you insist on calling trans people by a pronoun they asked you not to

What gives them the right to make that demand of other people, if other people don’t agree with them? That’s my whole point. I mean, yeah, it would be nice if they agreed, but it doesn’t make them a bigot if they don’t agree, it just means…they don’t agree.

It's really no different then if you asked me to call you Jeff and I said naw, I'm going to call you fuck face instead because I think that suits you better.

And I’ve explained this, you can call me whatever you like. And I’ll just dismiss it. I don’t NEED you to call nice things to make me happy. I’m just as content letting you be as rude as you want, because I understand that that is a you problem, not a me problem. Hell, I’ll even still debate with you and talk to you, because I choose not to let your insults affect me.

Is purposely insulting people bad? I'll believe you mean that when you agree purposefully calling people something they asked you not to is insulting no matter what you're calling them.

Purposely insulting someone is your right. It’s upon you whether or not you want to go down that road. If someone thinks that not being called a particular pronoun is an insult, it’s because they are looking to BE insulted. It tells me that they are unwilling to accept that some people will not agree with the multi gender idea. And that’s all it really is, is just some people who don’t believe in 70 different genders. It’s not meant to be insulting…it’s just that, people don’t agree on that.

Why arent you then respecting my freedom to call you a disgusting bigot? Seems like you're not living up to your own stated values.

At no point did I not respect your free speech opinion to call me a bigot, in fact, I’ve been clear that I think it’s your right to do so. I was merely pointing out your willingness to throw out insults because someone had a difference of opinion than you.

Who's arguing it should be okay to harm you for calling someone the wrong pronoun?

I was just pointing out that, your insults could not and should not garner any type of retaliatory action, that unless it was a threat or some kind of harm directed toward another person, the insults should just be dismissed.

********

Now, again, this whole argument from you comes from the perspective of you thinking that the person is trying to be hurtful and disrespectful, which would be his right if he was that kind of person. My point is to try and get you to see this from another perspective, that disagreement doesn’t mean hate. As I’ve stated before,I am ok with respecting pronouns..so long as I don’t think they are being belligerent about it. This is because I understand that trans people go through a lot of mental turmoil, not to mention abuse and ridicule, I’ve never denied that it happens, because, unfortunately, it does, but at the same time, not everyone is like that, and people who don’t agree with them are not all like that either.

 

[ThisIsMe]

If you are introduced to someone named named "Ichabod" and he says to you "Call me Bud". That's what my family and friends call me". Are you going to stand there and say "No. Your name is Ichabod and I'm not going to call you 'Bud' or anything else, because that's not who you are!"? How is using someone's preferred pronouns any different?

How someone prefers to be addressed is no skin off my nose, and it costs me nothing to accommodate them. I don't go through my life looking for things to get pissed off about or offended by. I have enough real issues and problems to be concerned about. This is a real non-issue.

I keep asking why it bothers poster here so much to accommodate these requests and not one person has answered the question.

That’s whole different topic asking someone to refer to them by a nick name is not asking (demanding) someone to go against what they believe and call a biological man, a woman. Some people just don’t agree with that “science”. That’s all

 

[Curried Goats]

This makes no sense. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. It is not my mission in life to force others into compliance with my way of thinking. That’s kind of my whole point.



You’re right, I don’t get to determine how other people feel, I’m simply saying that we need to stop the left from feeding them all these lies about “if they don’t address you by your desired pronouns, it’s because of hate”. That’s not not always true



I welcome the disagreement. I don’t have a problem with it. It’s just that I’m not going to try and force people to agree with me, under penalty of punishment. If they find that insulting that some people may not choose to use their pronouns, then they need to understand that they can’t force their ideas onto other people, and they need to stop thinking everything is an attack.

If they take offense to someone not using a pronoun, then it’s because they are unwilling to accept that they can’t force others to agree with them. Just understand that not everyone is going to agree, nor should they have to.



I agree, if you break the rules at work and use that kind of language, you should be fired. I have no gripes about that.



In every day life? Yes…thata what having free speech is all about. Outside of controlled places like work, if you start limiting speech, then where is the cut off. Maybe think you should be prohibited from insulting people..should we cut that off? Or maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to voice your opinion on republicans..that might offend someone..should we cut that off? Who’s free speech can we infringe upon next?

The whole idea of FREE speech is being able to speak without consequence..with the exception of threats or breaking work rules. If you start limiting speech…then anyone who takes even slight offense to something can punish you. Do you think it’s possible for us to live in a world where people never say anything rude or offensive?

Also..just for you





Right. I can’t, nor would I. That would be wrong. You are entitled to your opinion.



I could, but I wouldn’t..it’s just not my style.



No, i couldn’t. That would be crossing a line, because, unless you used threats or intended some harm, doing what you suggest would be a violation of your 1A rights and it would be wrong for me to do that. I take my own advice. I have the right to not be offended, and I choose to exercise that right.




You would have to answer to your employer, as for your friends…that’s for you to work out with them.




The only thing I’ve said is, you shouldn’t be able to force others into compliance with your ideas and against their ideas…in this case, pronouns. And the only opinion I’ve expressed about their disagreement is that it’s completely fine, and I’m not going to try and force you to agree with me, and I would expect other people would feel the same about you trying to force them to agree with you.



Apparently it’s not…otherwise we wouldn’t be having this discussion.




He was found guilty on the preponderance of evidence, which there was zero evidence. She was basically able to convince a jury that it’s possible that he could have done it, in New York..it probably wasn’t hard to find jury to make that determination.

The fact is, she provided zero evidence that he assaulted her..further more, it was her fault he even made the denial because she printed an unsubstantiated claim in her column, and when he denied it, she claimed defamation. Also, the sexual assault verdict and the initial defamation verdict were a part of the same trial. When it was over, and Trump maintained that he never touched her, because she had no evidence, she sued him again.

Again, it should go down on appeal. It’s a bogus case.



No, because I’m not the one demanding other agree with me, I’m saying they need to exercise tolerance in that they are trying to demand that other people accept THEIR idea. They shouldn’t be expected that they can make demands of others people and those people are just supposed to fall over in compliance. You can ask them to respect your pronouns, but that should be the extent of it. If they choose not to, then you should just go about your day and not expect that you can beat everyone into submission



Again, work rules are work rules. I was talking about more just in every day life.



And that would be fine, that’s their opinion. They, however, would be wrong, because their calling me a bigot would just show that they are unwilling to accept that I may not disagree with their views, and they can’t cudgel me into agreement, so they are going to throw labels.



What gives them the right to make that demand of other people, if other people don’t agree with them? That’s my whole point. I mean, yeah, it would be nice if they agreed, but it doesn’t make them a bigot if they don’t agree, it just means…they don’t agree.



And I’ve explained this, you can call me whatever you like. And I’ll just dismiss it. I don’t NEED you to call nice things to make me happy. I’m just as content letting you be as rude as you want, because I understand that that is a you problem, not a me problem. Hell, I’ll even still debate with you and talk to you, because I choose not to let your insults affect me.



Purposely insulting someone is your right. It’s upon you whether or not you want to go down that road. If someone thinks that not being called a particular pronoun is an insult, it’s because they are looking to BE insulted. It tells me that they are unwilling to accept that some people will not agree with the multi gender idea. And that’s all it really is, is just some people who don’t believe in 70 different genders. It’s not meant to be insulting…it’s just that, people don’t agree on that.



At no point did I not respect your free speech opinion to call me a bigot, in fact, I’ve been clear that I think it’s your right to do so. I was merely pointing out your willingness to throw out insults because someone had a difference of opinion than you.



I was just pointing out that, your insults could not and should not garner any type of retaliatory action, that unless it was a threat or some kind of harm directed toward another person, the insults should just be dismissed.

********

Now, again, this whole argument from you comes from the perspective of you thinking that the person is trying to be hurtful and disrespectful, which would be his right if he was that kind of person. My point is to try and get you to see this from another perspective, that disagreement doesn’t mean hate. As I’ve stated before,I am ok with respecting pronouns..so long as I don’t think they are being belligerent about it. This is because I understand that trans people go through a lot of mental turmoil, not to mention abuse and ridicule, I’ve never denied that it happens, because, unfortunately, it does, but at the same time, not everyone is like that, and people who don’t agree with them are not all like that either.

In what way do you imagine you're being forced to comply because I still don't see you describing any force. I see people asking you to respect their pronouns and then thinking you're bigots when you don't. At one point does force come in to play?

 

[Dragonlady]

That’s whole different topic asking someone to refer to them by a nick name is not asking (demanding) someone to go against what they believe and call a biological man, a woman. Some people just don’t agree with that “science”. That’s all

No it is not. It is EXACTLY the same thing. You're not being asked to believe they're a woman. You're being asked to use a female pronoun when talking to them.

The level of fear and outrage you project is WAY out of proportion to reality here. This is why transgendered people are subject to more physical attacks, abuse, and murder than any other minority group.

Now WHY are you so triggered? Why this level of fear and anger?