OffensivelyOpenMinded
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Have a good one, Gracie.
Question for those who actually believe 'transgenderism' is a real thing?
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ChrisL
Diamond Member
So Christianity influenced the Roman people to not worship a man as god and you think that was a bad thing? Why?The Fall of the Roman Empire [ushistory.org]
Constantine and the Rise of Christianity
One of the many factors that contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire was the rise of a new religion, Christianity. The Christian religion, which was monotheistic ran counter to the traditional Roman religion, which was polytheistic (many gods). At different times, the Romans persecuted the Christians because of their beliefs, which were popular among the poor.
This 16th-century medallion depicts Attila the Hun, one of the most vicious invaders of all time.
In 313 C.E., Roman emperor Constantine the Great ended all persecution and declared toleration for Christianity. Later that century, Christianity became the official state religion of the Empire. This drastic change in policy spread this relatively new religion to every corner of the Empire.
By approving Christianity, the Roman state directly undermined its religious traditions. Finally, by this time, Romans considered their emperor a god. But the Christian belief in one god — who was not the emperor — weakened the authority and credibility of the emperor.
Constantine enacted another change that helped accelerate the fall of the Roman Empire. In 330 C.E., he split the empire into two parts: the western half centered in Rome and the eastern half centered in Constantinople, a city he named after himself.
I'm not saying whether it was good or bad. I'm just relaying some facts that I found to rebut you.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Other fundamental problems contributed to the fall. In the economically ailing west, a decrease in agricultural production led to higher food prices. The western half of the empire had a large trade deficit with the eastern half. The west purchased luxury goods from the east but had nothing to offer in exchange. To make up for the lack of money, the government began producing more coins with less silver content. This led to inflation. Finally, piracy and attacks from Germanic tribes disrupted the flow of trade, especially in the west.
There were political and military difficulties, as well. It didn't help matters that political amateurs were in control of Rome in the years leading up to its fall. Army generals dominated the emperorship, and corruption was rampant. Over time, the military was transformed into a mercenary army with no real loyalty to Rome. As money grew tight, the government hired the cheaper and less reliable Germanic soldiers to fight in Roman armies. By the end, these armies were defending Rome against their fellow Germanic tribesmen. Under these circumstances, the sack of Rome came as no surprise.
Goth Rockers
Wave after wave of Germanic barbarian tribes swept through the Roman Empire. Groups such as the Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, Ostrogoths, and Lombards took turns ravaging the Empire, eventually carving out areas in which to settle down. The Angles and Saxons populated the British Isles, and the Franks ended up in France.
In 476 C.E. Romulus, the last of the Roman emperors in the west, was overthrown by the Germanic leader Odoacer, who became the first Barbarian to rule in Rome. The order that the Roman Empire had brought to western Europe for 1000 years was no more.
(the above from my link)
Nope, no mention of homosexuality.
There were political and military difficulties, as well. It didn't help matters that political amateurs were in control of Rome in the years leading up to its fall. Army generals dominated the emperorship, and corruption was rampant. Over time, the military was transformed into a mercenary army with no real loyalty to Rome. As money grew tight, the government hired the cheaper and less reliable Germanic soldiers to fight in Roman armies. By the end, these armies were defending Rome against their fellow Germanic tribesmen. Under these circumstances, the sack of Rome came as no surprise.
Goth Rockers
Wave after wave of Germanic barbarian tribes swept through the Roman Empire. Groups such as the Visigoths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Franks, Ostrogoths, and Lombards took turns ravaging the Empire, eventually carving out areas in which to settle down. The Angles and Saxons populated the British Isles, and the Franks ended up in France.
In 476 C.E. Romulus, the last of the Roman emperors in the west, was overthrown by the Germanic leader Odoacer, who became the first Barbarian to rule in Rome. The order that the Roman Empire had brought to western Europe for 1000 years was no more.
(the above from my link)
Nope, no mention of homosexuality.
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.
That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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Okay. Fair enough. These are good points so don't think I am trying to mock you or anything.So Christianity influenced the Roman people to not worship a man as god and you think that was a bad thing? Why?The Fall of the Roman Empire [ushistory.org]
Constantine and the Rise of Christianity
One of the many factors that contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire was the rise of a new religion, Christianity. The Christian religion, which was monotheistic ran counter to the traditional Roman religion, which was polytheistic (many gods). At different times, the Romans persecuted the Christians because of their beliefs, which were popular among the poor.
This 16th-century medallion depicts Attila the Hun, one of the most vicious invaders of all time.
In 313 C.E., Roman emperor Constantine the Great ended all persecution and declared toleration for Christianity. Later that century, Christianity became the official state religion of the Empire. This drastic change in policy spread this relatively new religion to every corner of the Empire.
By approving Christianity, the Roman state directly undermined its religious traditions. Finally, by this time, Romans considered their emperor a god. But the Christian belief in one god — who was not the emperor — weakened the authority and credibility of the emperor.
Constantine enacted another change that helped accelerate the fall of the Roman Empire. In 330 C.E., he split the empire into two parts: the western half centered in Rome and the eastern half centered in Constantinople, a city he named after himself.
I'm not saying whether it was good or bad. I'm just relaying some facts that I found to rebut you.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.
That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
Why don't you know? You're the one whose read "thousands" of books about it.
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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We can only guess, but I think its a safe bet he felt guilty about what was going on. What other reason would there be? It's not like the Christians had overpowered him with brute force, they were a persecuted minority at the time. All we know for certain is that he had a vision and converted right after.If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.
That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
Why don't you know? You're the one whose read "thousands" of books about it.
Lucy Hamilton
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- Oct 30, 2015
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- #248
If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.
That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
It's weird to think that at this moment, sunbathing is to be had in gardens....it's very late here and I'm off to bed, I've been doing well for nights, being in bed well before 2am, so I hate to do this to you, but I wish you well with Chris
ChrisL
Diamond Member
We can only guess, but I think its a safe bet he felt guilty about what was going on. What other reason would there be? It's not like the Christians had overpowered him with brute force, they were a persecuted minority at the time.If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
Why don't you know? You're the one whose read "thousands" of books about it.
Okay, well where is your evidence (besides your one silly link) that homosexuals caused the fall of the Roman Empire? Just saying that sounds silly, considering homosexuals had been there for since the beginning of the empire and persisted to the middle and end of the empire. I think homosexuals are harmless and are not the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire. Multiple factors contributed, but not one mention of homosexuals from any reputable sites.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.
That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
It's weird to think that at this moment, sunbathing is to be had in gardens....it's very late here and I'm off to bed, I've been doing well for nights, being in bed well before 2am, so I hate to do this to you, but I wish you well with Chris
But you haven't even helped him at all, but he will need all the help he can get when starting an argument with me! Lol.
Nightie night.
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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Night Lucy!If things were going so good for Rome with paganism and homosexuality abound, why did Constantine feel the need to ask God for forgiveness and become a worshipper of Jesus Christ? Now, I realize he may have had a change of heart because it meant that he wasn't a god emperor or a god at all...but still...if things were going so well in his empire...why did he want to do an about face on those things and follow Jesus Christ?That's a fair enough point, now you just have to make the case that Christianity was the reason Rome fell instead of all the bread and circuses, the sexual libertinism, and all the other social ills that were going on at the time. From my understanding, Roman Christians condemned such behavior and didn't participate in it.
That had been going on for a LOOOONG time before the Roman Empire fell. However, "Christianity" had not been around for so long.
And shortly afterwards is when the Roman Empire fell, relatively speaking, whereas homosexuality and such other "sexual deviations" had been going on for a very long time. It's not like homosexuality was the "new thing."
It's weird to think that at this moment, sunbathing is to be had in gardens....it's very late here and I'm off to bed, I've been doing well for nights, being in bed well before 2am, so I hate to do this to you, but I wish you well with Chris
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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I said it played a role, remember? Not that it is THE sole cause of Rome's fall.
ChrisL
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Well, none of the things that I've gone through have mentioned homosexuality as A cause for the fall of the Roman Empire. Lots of other things, including the introduction of Christianity, but nothing about homosexuality.
Not to mention the fact, like I said, that doesn't make sense at all considering homosexuality was around BEFORE the Roman Empire, during and still persisted afterwards. I have an idea that it had NOTHING to do with the fall of Rome. Just because you hate homosexuality does not mean that you can blame everything on it. Lol.
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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Its not politically correct to mention it was a cause. So you have to dig deeper. So.etimes you even have to go to a library or order a book that wasn't written during our current PC revisionist society's time frame.
Well, none of the things that I've gone through have mentioned homosexuality as A cause for the fall of the Roman Empire. Lots of other things, including the introduction of Christianity, but nothing about homosexuality.
Not to mention the fact, like I said, that doesn't make sense at all considering homosexuality was around BEFORE the Roman Empire, during and still persisted afterwards. I have an idea that it had NOTHING to do with the fall of Rome. Just because you hate homosexuality does not mean that you can blame everything on it. Lol.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Its not politically correct to mention it was a cause. So you have to dig deeper. So.etimes you even have to go to a library or order a book that wasn't written during our current PC revisionist society's time frame.
Well, none of the things that I've gone through have mentioned homosexuality as A cause for the fall of the Roman Empire. Lots of other things, including the introduction of Christianity, but nothing about homosexuality.
Not to mention the fact, like I said, that doesn't make sense at all considering homosexuality was around BEFORE the Roman Empire, during and still persisted afterwards. I have an idea that it had NOTHING to do with the fall of Rome. Just because you hate homosexuality does not mean that you can blame everything on it. Lol.
Oh sure. That must be it. Lol.
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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Are you just trying to get me to do your homework, cutie pie?Its not politically correct to mention it was a cause. So you have to dig deeper. So.etimes you even have to go to a library or order a book that wasn't written during our current PC revisionist society's time frame.
Well, none of the things that I've gone through have mentioned homosexuality as A cause for the fall of the Roman Empire. Lots of other things, including the introduction of Christianity, but nothing about homosexuality.
Not to mention the fact, like I said, that doesn't make sense at all considering homosexuality was around BEFORE the Roman Empire, during and still persisted afterwards. I have an idea that it had NOTHING to do with the fall of Rome. Just because you hate homosexuality does not mean that you can blame everything on it. Lol.
Oh sure. That must be it. Lol.
I fell asleep out there. So nice to lay in the sun!
Anyway..what did I miss? Never mind. Just opinions being posted with the usual "I agree" and "I disagree". Not in the mood. My musings on transgenders has passed. On to other topics!
See ya around, OOM. You made the discussion very interesting.
Anyway..what did I miss? Never mind. Just opinions being posted with the usual "I agree" and "I disagree". Not in the mood. My musings on transgenders has passed. On to other topics!
See ya around, OOM. You made the discussion very interesting.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
OffensivelyOpenMinded
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Why is that? And my screen name is actually a sort of double entendre.. I can be Offensive, I can be Open minded. I also am always on the offense, guarding my open mind from people who wish to throw every and any old idea in it.
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