Question for rtwng

[Annie]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
The difference between my idea of the social worker in the community is the checking up on people idea. I don't think you need to snoop around, that takes away from privacy and certain rights, but the people who need help sometimes are the last ones to go looking for it. Part of the human condition. I think those are the people who are alienated and criticized. You can't assume you wouldn't do the same if your circumstances were different.

I guess to introduce capitalism as a friendly ideology to everyone you would have to advertise the strong need for having ties in the community then?

You want the government workers to go knocking on peoples' doors? People who don't want to have anything to do with the government? No way.

On the other hand, if I have an elderly neighbor that doesn't mix and something concerns me, like her not picking up her mail? I can call the police who will knock or send someone from social services out.

I think you don't understand the innate distrust most Americans have for the government.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
...and I withdraw my position as a socialist.
I can't argue for an ideology I don't fully understand, or believe in.
Can you figure something out that makes capitalism work, but doesn't entirely leave the socialists out of the picture?

Like if you say 'the safety nets aren't good enough, but capitalism will take care of that' then I have something to believe in.

Why don't you just go say what you want to hear into a tape recorder and play it back for yourself until you're satisfied? The safety net is too much as it is.

 

[crazy canadian]

Originally posted by Kathianne
You want the government workers to go knocking on peoples' doors? People who don't want to have anything to do with the government? No way.

On the other hand, if I have an elderly neighbor that doesn't mix and something concerns me, like her not picking up her mail? I can call the police who will knock or send someone from social services out.

I think you don't understand the innate distrust most Americans have for the government.

That's an elderly person, you would assume they may have passed away... and that's a natural concern.
My downstairs neighbor didn't have a clue anything was wrong in our household until everything was over. A normal functioning woman with a family. People don't always say hello to each other, I've noticed. They give people A LOT of space. That's awesome that you would do that, but do you think in all situations people would step up like you would?

And you're right, I don't have a clue about the innate distrust most Americans have for the gov't. That sucks, but perhaps is entirely valid.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by crazy canadian


I guess to introduce capitalism as a friendly ideology to everyone you would have to advertise the strong need for having ties in the community then?

Under socialism, people fall through the cracks. Government makes mistakes. People are treated like number instead of like unique individuals. Under capitalism, some people fall through the cracks too. Yet, all things considered, I think that capitalism is superior (with a safety net).

I think that local friends and neighbors used to have stronger ties than they do today. People looked after each other. They understood each other and knew the value of communicating and networking on a daily basis. They would directly help one another or direct one another to appropriate places where the concerned could receive appropriate assistance.

Today, government assumes much of the "social services" once done in the private sector. Neighbors have lost touch with each other as government steadily conditions citizens to rely on it for practically all of their needs.

 

[Annie]

Actually the innate distrust is our legacy.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
That sucks, but perhaps is entirely valid. [/B]

It is, unlike all socialist pseudologic. I hope you're not caving in hoping we will. Ain't gonna happen. And please don't turn around and say "there you have it, conservatives won't compromise". That's soooo five pages ago.

 

[crazy canadian]

Originally posted by mattskramer

__________________
"I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other mens rights." - Abraham Lincoln

**************************
Did your quote show up Matts? I'll find out.
I agree entirely. That has been a personal complaint of mine for a long time. Do you think the socialists just want to go back in time?

***
Rtwng, you don't need to compromise on your ideology, you just need to work on convincing the softies that you're not so much of a hard-ass. They want love, and peace and all the good things they don't think you, as a capitalist, are looking for. They think you just want to keep your money because you are greedy. And unless you work on convincing them a hard-ass world will work for them too, you will never get your capitalist country.
If you believe so strongly in capitalism, that's cool. But don't be so agressive. A softie won't listen to you, they'll call you on it and use you as an example of how mean capitalists are. And the gov't will listen to them, because, after all, they ARE trying to get more money for the gov't.

 

[crazy canadian]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Why don't you just go say what you want to hear into a tape recorder and play it back for yourself until you're satisfied? The safety net is too much as it is.

When you say stuff like that, you're losing me...

 

[crazy canadian]

Matts quote: 'I think that local friends and neighbors used to have stronger ties than they do today. People looked after each other. They understood each other and knew the value of communicating and networking on a daily basis. They would directly help one another or direct one another to appropriate places where the concerned could receive appropriate assistance.

Today, government assumes much of the "social services" once done in the private sector. Neighbors have lost touch with each other as government steadily conditions citizens to rely on it for practically all of their needs.'

********************************************
That could be used in a platform for capitalism: Let's go back to the way things USED to be. Community love! People helping people! Rebuild the VALUES America was built on! Join, the new all for one, one for all CAPITALIST MOVEMENT OF THE NEW MILLENNIUM!

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
I think that local friends and neighbors used to have stronger ties than they do today. People looked after each other. They understood each other and knew the value of communicating and networking on a daily basis. They would directly help one another or direct one another to appropriate places where the concerned could receive appropriate assistance.

Today, government assumes much of the "social services" once done in the private sector. Neighbors have lost touch with each other as government steadily conditions citizens to rely on it for practically all of their needs.


That could be used in a platform for capitalism: Let's go back to the way things USED to be. Community love! People helping people! Rebuild the VALUES America was built on! Join, the new all for one, one for all CAPITALIST MOVEMENT OF THE NEW MILLENIUM!

It's being done every day. Even in some of the poorest areas, neighborhood watches are emerging. It's not easy, but it sure beats waiting for the government to help you. You'll die waiting for that.

 

[crazy canadian]

That was Matts quote, I just couldn't get the quote button to work. I'm out for the day, I think. I have a lot to do, like shut off the news for starters. Man the world is sad.
This weekend is free fishin' weekend in Washington, so I'm going to turn myself into a flyfisher.
And still have lots to do as a mom, of course.
Have a good day, all of you.

 

[mattskramer]

Originally posted by crazy canadian


That could be used in a platform for capitalism: Let's go back to the way things USED to be. Community love! People helping people! Rebuild the VALUES America was built on! Join, the new all for one, one for all CAPITALIST MOVEMENT OF THE NEW MILLENNIUM!



Please don't read into my posts that which I didn't post. Basically, I can't speak for socialists. I would like to see a reduction in the amount spent by the US government on domestic "social service" programs and return much of the money to the taxpayer. I would also like to see people encouraged to make private social connection with their neighbors and local community (communicate with each other and create strong private networks).

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by crazy canadian
When you say stuff like that, you're losing me...

You said this " Like if you say 'the safety nets aren't good enough, but capitalism will take care of that' then I have something to believe in. " You're telling us what you want to hear. I suggest repeating what you want to hear into a tape recorder, and then playing it back for yourself. Then you can quit wasting everyone's time. Get it?

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
You said this " Like if you say 'the safety nets aren't good enough, but capitalism will take care of that' then I have something to believe in. " You're telling us what you want to hear. I suggest repeating what you want to hear into a tape recorder, and then playing it back for yourself. Then you can quit wasting everyone's time. Get it?

In all fairness to CC, she has been considering everyone's point of view. She has a different way of describing people than most of us are used to. She seems to refer to capitalists and socialists, the way would dems and rep.

She's come around though, at least somewhat.:cof:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Kathianne
In all fairness to CC, she has been considering everyone's point of view. She has a different way of describing people than most of us are used to. She seems to refer to capitalists and socialists, the way would dems and rep.

She's come around though, at least somewhat.:cof:

Still, if she's going to tell us what she wants us to say, she should just get a nice tape recorder, in all fairness.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Still, if she's going to tell us what she wants us to say, she should just get a nice tape recorder, in all fairness.

LOL that could be said of all of us! Who here doesn't have an opinion? Now the trick is to listen, : so that you can adopt my position!:clap1:

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Kathianne
LOL that could be said of all of us! Who here doesn't have an opinion? Now the trick is to listen, : so that you can adopt my position!:clap1:

I do listen. I've heard nothing convincing.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I do listen. I've heard nothing convincing.

Well that's because we basically agree on most things.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Well that's because we basically agree on most things.

Oh. You're convincing on everything excepting cutting cc some slack. I don't afford anyone an out unless they earn it, even a beautiful faerie princess!

Her concessions are still just a lead up to the "conservatives never compromise" line. And to continue the dramatization, it will go something like this, "See, I'm willing to forsake my every last belief, you should too. you must be stubborn, because we know there's no right and wrong. Right and wrong are a racist construct. So is truth and logic."

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Oh. You're convincing on everything excepting cutting cc some slack. I don't afford anyone an out unless they earn it, even a beautiful faerie princess!

Her concessions are still just a lead up to the "conservatives never compromise" line. And to continue the dramatization, it will go something like this, "See, I'm willing to forsake my every last belief, you should too. you must be stubborn, because we know there's no right and wrong. Right and wrong are a racist construct. So is truth and logic."

Have I struck you as someone who changes my mind easily? : But I try to be open minded. I don't like the idea that the Republicans get hit with this 'all for the rich' which is a crock.

The point of emphasizing the individual and their ability to succeed and give of themselves, harkens back to our puritan work ethic! I am not without compassion, I just think that for those amongst us that really need help, the local charities are the way to go.