Question for Government Run Healthcare Supporters...

[PoliticalChic]

A couplet for Nixon (bobo):

Washington would not be in such a snarl.......
If Marx had been Groucho, instead of Karl!

Lets start quoting Nixon:

"There are times when abortions are necessary, I know that, like when you have a black and a white.....Or rape."

PS. Love to see you and Pixie think so highly of each other.

Still batting 1000 at missing the point.

See, you are Nixon, you. Get it Y-O-U

'Caise no real left-winger, as you pose to be, could possible be as dumb, bird-brained, ignorant (OOPS- That's the Brat), uninformed, oblivious, benighted, etc., no matter how much public schooling they had or how much community organizing they had done, so, I have applied the precepts of the world's greatest consulting detective, Sherlock Holmes, who said

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "-- The Sign of the Four

Therefore, you must be a far-right-exteme-way-way-out Republican, claiming to be a lefty to make all lefties look bad (even though they do a commendable job by themselves).

Get it, Nixon?

 

[sealybobo]

So, Sealybobo math goes like this......take a 54 Trillion dollar unfunded mandate (as noted by the former Comptroller of the United States David Walker).....



Des Moines Register article

Then add another $1 - $2 Trillion dollars per year to the unfunded mandate and tell us that we are all better off. Well bobo, I just have to say.....

STOP PEEING ON MY LEG AND TELLING ME IT'S RAINING!! The current system is unsustainable. Adding more to it only makes it LESS sustainable. There is nothing about any part of our social welfare system that is in a sustainable state currently. And the gall of the Dear Leader going on TV last night and saying that 2/3rds of this is going to be paid for by cutting waste, fraud, abuse and improved cost savings should have made every person in America puke simultaneously. Government has NEVER, EVER done that and NEVER, EVER will. It doesn't matter who is charge.

So, that leaves us with a minimum of 3x the amount to fund than is currently being talked about. Since we are not paying for the welfare system we have now, that only doubles the problem. When the number gets large enough, the Chinese will stop buying our paper. Then we'll get Zimbawe type hyper-inflation and our society will collapse. So Sealy, quit trying to help us! Please!!!

Its already funded. 2/3rds of it we already pay.

And no. The insurance companies are overcharging us. Why can't you understand that Canada and every other country is getting more for less?

Again, tax payers are already paying, ON TOP of what our corporations and we as carriers are paying.

And not everyone is covered. You don't seem to get that the healthcare insurance companies are the biggest beurocracy/scam.

You should have cared this much about the car companies. But you didn't. The workers cost too much. You seemed to get it then but don't get it now. Maybe you should stop listening to Rush.

And we need Rush to debate Ed Schultz. Ed challanged him. So far, no fucking answer. Because face to face, they'll be exposed for the liars they are. Misinformation 101. You've mastered that class.

No you've mastered that. You say that 2/3rds is funded. The Comptroller of the United States says you are wrong. We're doing (I'm going to use your number even though it's bullshit) 2/3rds, but we aren't paying for it!!!!!!! That's the point! It's UNFUNDED!

$54 Trillion worth of UNFUNDED

Your solution -- Add more too it! That plan is STUPID. I can't say it any simpler than that.

Not that it matters, but I haven't listened to Rush on anything like a regular basis in about 15 years and I haven't heard him at all in at least 4 months or more.

Take the total dollar that tax payers pay for things like schip and illegals going to emergency rooms.

Add those costs up.

That total is 2/3rds what a strong single payer public option will cost FOR EVERYONE!

Fact.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Why don't you ask how much I put toward my own healthcare? That happens to be ZERO, because in reality there is money stolen from me each week from my government to take care of others who do not work, many times they do not work because they just don't feel like it, poor things.
Meanwhile I have no healthcare. But I really do not want to be part of a healthcare system that will soon be totally run by the same entity that controls my paycheck

I hear you... Just imagine if the government cut spending and gave us some of our own money back to pay for our own healthcare...

Then I could make my own choice, instead of being forced to do something against my will.

I am amazed that people have allowed this to get so far.

The right to make Personal choices are challenged daily with this obamunism.

Choices are being stolen from all of us. Therefore the character to do the right thing is being challenged by this regime

That's his agenda. The endgame is to have us all dependent on uncle and have limited personal choices. Can you say iron fist?

 

[sealybobo]

Lets start quoting Nixon:

"There are times when abortions are necessary, I know that, like when you have a black and a white.....Or rape."

PS. Love to see you and Pixie think so highly of each other.

Still batting 1000 at missing the point.

See, you are Nixon, you. Get it Y-O-U

'Caise no real left-winger, as you pose to be, could possible be as dumb, bird-brained, ignorant (OOPS- That's the Brat), uninformed, oblivious, benighted, etc., no matter how much public schooling they had or how much community organizing they had done, so, I have applied the precepts of the world's greatest consulting detective, Sherlock Holmes, who said

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "-- The Sign of the Four

Therefore, you must be a far-right-exteme-way-way-out Republican, claiming to be a lefty to make all lefties look bad (even though they do a commendable job by themselves).

Get it, Nixon?

Amazing that all of the sudden the mood from the right is much different today than it was yesterday. Yesterday you guys were all over the place and wondering where us liberals were.

Then Obama squashed all your lies and bs and today you guys seemed to have lost your message.

That's the key. Control the conversation. We have control back.

Now, you can continue to question Obama after 6 months on the job. Go for it. You all sound like idiots.

 

[PixieStix]

I hear you... Just imagine if the government cut spending and gave us some of our own money back to pay for our own healthcare...

Then I could make my own choice, instead of being forced to do something against my will.

I am amazed that people have allowed this to get so far.

The right to make Personal choices are challenged daily with this obamunism.

Choices are being stolen from all of us. Therefore the character to do the right thing is being challenged by this regime

That's his agenda. The endgame is to have us all dependent on uncle and have limited personal choices. Can you say iron fist?

They are slowly conditioning the people into submission, submitting to government control is not my idea of utopia, government is wearing many down to despair, but I submit that there are many who will not submit, to the propaganda of obamunism

 

[Modbert]

You need to listen more carefully then. Tax cuts in the Repub plans are just to deal with a small part of the problem. Namely, those people who work for small businesses that do not provide health insurance plans. The idea is to provide those people with the funds to purchase health plans and put them in the same situation as those with employer plans.

Other features that Democrats have opposed over the last 10 years including Obama were tearing down the walls that prevent health insurance from being sold across state lines. Allowing the formation of pools by small businesses across the country to create more affordable health insurance availability for small business. Instead, the Dems have sided with Big Insurance to prevent this action an assure big profits for Health Insurance companies.

Additionally, repubs have supported tax deferred Health Savings Accounts (HSA). These allow people to save money tax deferred and use that money to pay for health care costs. This is used in conjunction with a high deductible health insurance plan. These plans cost less so that the average person can afford them. The high deductibility means that recipients are more likely to act like consumers when purchasing health care and search for value rather than paying whatever the doctor wants to charge.

There are a lot more features of republican alternatives than mere tax cuts.

I'm not saying the Democrats aren't prone to Corruption from the Health Insurance, far from it.

My question however is what in their plan is going to prevent Big Insurance's iron grip hold on the average American?

Also, you fail to mention that HSAs are flawed, and aren't for everyone. It's a good plan IF you are a healthy person, and your dependents are healthy. If I have a chronic condition however, this is by far not the best choice.

Flaws with HSA: Older/Sicker people pay more, Illnesses (especially long-term ones) are unpredictable, so it's difficult to make a budget for your health care expenses. Information while shopping around can be difficult to find. The pressure to save money in one's HSA might cause one not to seek preventive treatment, which is the best time to catch and strike at any illness. Finally, if you withdraw funds from a health savings account for nonmedical expenses before you turn 65, you have to pay taxes on it plus a 10 percent penalty.

As detailed here: Health savings accounts: Is an HSA right for you? - MayoClinic.com

So while it's a nice plan for healthy person (somewhat to the most part), it still has it's flaws.

My only problem with allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines is whether the coverage being sold would be adequate.

However, as I stated earlier, lets be honest with ourselves, Big Insurance has an iron grip hold on the Average American. The Drug Lobby has lobbied over $1 BILLION over the last ten years. That's a lot of money to a lot of politicians and Presidential Candidates. If we're going to make any progress with Health Care in this country, the stranglehold must end.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It is clear Obama answered all of your questions last night. What else you got? Do you have any problems with what Obama said? Deny any of his facts?

I watched that dog and pony show while I ate my supper.

I feel your pain, brother.

Tell me, which did you need more of, TUMS or NO-DOZ?

I watched the lecture, er press conference. If this was the performance on which to base his talents, he could be a worse speaker than the former President.

I kept picturing myself sitting in a college class with this kind of prof.

I understand that Eric Holder is issuing an order that in the pantheon of 'interrogation techniques' used in Gitmo, this lecture should be considered as a step beyond waterboarding.

You know, I sat open mouthed during his NAACP speech, magnificent oratory.

Based on the two performances, almost Manachean in their differences, I have come to believe that, like Saddam, the Obama Administration is copying the Saddam-Double Program.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Still batting 1000 at missing the point.

See, you are Nixon, you. Get it Y-O-U

'Caise no real left-winger, as you pose to be, could possible be as dumb, bird-brained, ignorant (OOPS- That's the Brat), uninformed, oblivious, benighted, etc., no matter how much public schooling they had or how much community organizing they had done, so, I have applied the precepts of the world's greatest consulting detective, Sherlock Holmes, who said

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "-- The Sign of the Four

Therefore, you must be a far-right-exteme-way-way-out Republican, claiming to be a lefty to make all lefties look bad (even though they do a commendable job by themselves).

Get it, Nixon?

Amazing that all of the sudden the mood from the right is much different today than it was yesterday. Yesterday you guys were all over the place and wondering where us liberals were.

Then Obama squashed all your lies and bs and today you guys seemed to have lost your message.

That's the key. Control the conversation. We have control back.

Now, you can continue to question Obama after 6 months on the job. Go for it. You all sound like idiots.

Nixon- Did you actually give me a neg rep????

That is the funniest!

Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day.

Verifying everything I claimed about you! I feel lyrical, rhapsodic, lighter than air!

Just when I thought that you had plumbed the depths of blitheringness, you find a way to prove that there is no nadir to your ability to comprehend!!!

Nixon, you made my day!

 

[sealybobo]

Amazing that all of the sudden the mood from the right is much different today than it was yesterday. Yesterday you guys were all over the place and wondering where us liberals were.

Then Obama squashed all your lies and bs and today you guys seemed to have lost your message.

That's the key. Control the conversation. We have control back.

Now, you can continue to question Obama after 6 months on the job. Go for it. You all sound like idiots.

Nixon- Did you actually give me a neg rep????

That is the funniest!

Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day.

Verifying everything I claimed about you! I feel lyrical, rhapsodic, lighter than air!

Just when I thought that you had plumbed the depths of blitheringness, you find a way to prove that there is no nadir to your ability to comprehend!!!

Nixon, you made my day!

I almost exclusively negative rep assholes. Ask your fellow assholes. I rarely positive rep Chris or Jillian or other liberals, yet I notice you righties positive rep each other all the time and then brag about how your reps are.

I don't even know how many pos/neg reps I have. I get them from anyone I ever give them to, so I probably have a bad neg rep score. So fucking what? I just wanted to punish you for your stupidity.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Its already funded. 2/3rds of it we already pay.

And no. The insurance companies are overcharging us. Why can't you understand that Canada and every other country is getting more for less?

Again, tax payers are already paying, ON TOP of what our corporations and we as carriers are paying.

And not everyone is covered. You don't seem to get that the healthcare insurance companies are the biggest beurocracy/scam.

You should have cared this much about the car companies. But you didn't. The workers cost too much. You seemed to get it then but don't get it now. Maybe you should stop listening to Rush.

And we need Rush to debate Ed Schultz. Ed challanged him. So far, no fucking answer. Because face to face, they'll be exposed for the liars they are. Misinformation 101. You've mastered that class.

No you've mastered that. You say that 2/3rds is funded. The Comptroller of the United States says you are wrong. We're doing (I'm going to use your number even though it's bullshit) 2/3rds, but we aren't paying for it!!!!!!! That's the point! It's UNFUNDED!

$54 Trillion worth of UNFUNDED

Your solution -- Add more too it! That plan is STUPID. I can't say it any simpler than that.

Not that it matters, but I haven't listened to Rush on anything like a regular basis in about 15 years and I haven't heard him at all in at least 4 months or more.

Take the total dollar that tax payers pay for things like schip and illegals going to emergency rooms.

Add those costs up.

That total is 2/3rds what a strong single payer public option will cost FOR EVERYONE!

Fact.

(Silently praying for strength ----)

dumbdumb, I mean bobo, listen there is a difference between paying for something and owing for it. We don't pay the full amount for SCHIP, Medicaid, Medicare or Social Security. We pay some and we OWE some. Then we end up with a DEFICIT.....is it sinking in yet? 70% of the entire yearly budget is made up of ENTITLEMENTS like medicare and medicaid and social security. We only get 30% of the budget to do everything else.

Since we are now running a 1.3 Trillion dollar deficit, that means, we are not paying all our bills in the year they occur. That means our budget is not BALANCED. The amount that it is out of balance is GROWING every year. Smart people can do some math and figure out that because there are so many Baby Boomers, the amount of the part we are FAILING to pay each year for our social welfare programs, will increase geometrically. (That means by bunches and bunches)

In fact, the part we are not paying will add up to $54 Trillion. That's just the part we are not paying. You are suggesting we add MORE on top of that.

Did any of that sink in at all?

 

[asaratis]

Nixon- Did you actually give me a neg rep????

That is the funniest!

Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day.

Verifying everything I claimed about you! I feel lyrical, rhapsodic, lighter than air!

Just when I thought that you had plumbed the depths of blitheringness, you find a way to prove that there is no nadir to your ability to comprehend!!!

Nixon, you made my day!

I almost exclusively negative rep assholes. Ask your fellow assholes. I rarely positive rep Chris or Jillian or other liberals, yet I notice you righties positive rep each other all the time and then brag about how your reps are.

I don't even know how many pos/neg reps I have. I get them from anyone I ever give them to, so I probably have a bad neg rep score. So fucking what? I just wanted to punish you for your stupidity.

I've noticed that at least one liberal here tends to neg rep anybody that disagrees with him...has nothing to do with quality of posts.

The reputation system here is a meaningless crock of shit.

 

[Tech_Esq]

You need to listen more carefully then. Tax cuts in the Repub plans are just to deal with a small part of the problem. Namely, those people who work for small businesses that do not provide health insurance plans. The idea is to provide those people with the funds to purchase health plans and put them in the same situation as those with employer plans.

Other features that Democrats have opposed over the last 10 years including Obama were tearing down the walls that prevent health insurance from being sold across state lines. Allowing the formation of pools by small businesses across the country to create more affordable health insurance availability for small business. Instead, the Dems have sided with Big Insurance to prevent this action an assure big profits for Health Insurance companies.

Additionally, repubs have supported tax deferred Health Savings Accounts (HSA). These allow people to save money tax deferred and use that money to pay for health care costs. This is used in conjunction with a high deductible health insurance plan. These plans cost less so that the average person can afford them. The high deductibility means that recipients are more likely to act like consumers when purchasing health care and search for value rather than paying whatever the doctor wants to charge.

There are a lot more features of republican alternatives than mere tax cuts.

I'm not saying the Democrats aren't prone to Corruption from the Health Insurance, far from it.

My question however is what in their plan is going to prevent Big Insurance's iron grip hold on the average American?

Also, you fail to mention that HSAs are flawed, and aren't for everyone. It's a good plan IF you are a healthy person, and your dependents are healthy. If I have a chronic condition however, this is by far not the best choice.

Flaws with HSA: Older/Sicker people pay more, Illnesses (especially long-term ones) are unpredictable, so it's difficult to make a budget for your health care expenses. Information while shopping around can be difficult to find. The pressure to save money in one's HSA might cause one not to seek preventive treatment, which is the best time to catch and strike at any illness. Finally, if you withdraw funds from a health savings account for nonmedical expenses before you turn 65, you have to pay taxes on it plus a 10 percent penalty.

As detailed here: Health savings accounts: Is an HSA right for you? - MayoClinic.com

So while it's a nice plan for healthy person (somewhat to the most part), it still has it's flaws.

My only problem with allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines is whether the coverage being sold would be adequate.

However, as I stated earlier, lets be honest with ourselves, Big Insurance has an iron grip hold on the Average American. The Drug Lobby has lobbied over $1 BILLION over the last ten years. That's a lot of money to a lot of politicians and Presidential Candidates. If we're going to make any progress with Health Care in this country, the stranglehold must end.

Like tax cuts, HSAs are only part of the solution. If you are looking for a single silver bullet to say, "Just do this and it will solve the health care problem, " I don't think it's out there. It's going to take several solutions to provide the right kind of coverage for everybody, not a one size fits all plan. For me and my family, we are mostly healthy. We got an HSA and a high deductible plan that allows us free preventive care outside the deductible and some other features. We chose not to have maternity coverage because we are past that point. So you give in some areas to get in others. It's a good Blue Cross Blue Shield plan for about $350 per month for a family. For a little extra, I also got a dental plan.

I think to deal with some of the valid concerns you raise, there is a role for the government in creating and regulating the larger health insurance market that would be created. The first is the prevention of denial based on pre-existing condition. Only health insurers that would agree to conditions would be allowed to participate in the new nationwide market. (Similar to France, by the way).

We do have to find a way to address the decoupling of payment from consumption. As long as those two pieces are decoupled, we will never have a sustainable, quality and high value health care system. It is one of the primary things that is broken about the current system and a primary thing broken about the French system. What it leads to is over use for unnecessary care. This drives up costs, but doesn't provide increased health care value.

As far as having health insurance companies, the plans under consideration would destroy private health insurance companies within about 5 years. The first 3 years there is some artificial maintenance of private insurers, but after that you will have a choice (well "you" won't, the providers of coverage will) of a private company offering a required minimum level of plan and the government offering a similar plan. The government plan does not have to be revenue neutral much less profitable so it will drive the private insurers out of the market. So, in less than 10 years, you can virtually guarantee there will not be a private insurance market or any private health insurers.

How do we know? This is pretty much the same plan the Candians used when they implemented their socialized medicine plan.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Nixon- Did you actually give me a neg rep????

That is the funniest!

Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day.

Verifying everything I claimed about you! I feel lyrical, rhapsodic, lighter than air!

Just when I thought that you had plumbed the depths of blitheringness, you find a way to prove that there is no nadir to your ability to comprehend!!!

Nixon, you made my day!

I almost exclusively negative rep assholes. Ask your fellow assholes. I rarely positive rep Chris or Jillian or other liberals, yet I notice you righties positive rep each other all the time and then brag about how your reps are.

I don't even know how many pos/neg reps I have. I get them from anyone I ever give them to, so I probably have a bad neg rep score. So fucking what? I just wanted to punish you for your stupidity.

What's this? I think I smell embarrassment.

Making excuses for the neg rep is a sure sign of "Uh, Oh, I made a mistake."

Not to worry, Nixon, it's just one more in a long line.

And don't think it changes my respect for you: it couldn't.

Nah, I still think you are an ignorant, insipid, unintelligent,amateurish, brainless, foolish, incapable, incompetent, inept, inferior, mindless, pea-brained, senseless, slackwitted, unable, unaccomplished, unendowed, unfinished, unfit, ungifted, unprepared , witless liberal.

And yet, even with all of the above inadequacies, you seem to realize, too late, that it was stupid to give the neg rep and give me the opportunity to pillory you in public.

Yes, too late. And, no, you can't have it back. I'm keeping this bad boy, as it pins the tail on the donkey: you, Nixon.

Let's review "Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day."

I love it.

 

[sealybobo]

I almost exclusively negative rep assholes. Ask your fellow assholes. I rarely positive rep Chris or Jillian or other liberals, yet I notice you righties positive rep each other all the time and then brag about how your reps are.

I don't even know how many pos/neg reps I have. I get them from anyone I ever give them to, so I probably have a bad neg rep score. So fucking what? I just wanted to punish you for your stupidity.

What's this? I think I smell embarrassment.

Making excuses for the neg rep is a sure sign of "Uh, Oh, I made a mistake."

Not to worry, Nixon, it's just one more in a long line.

And don't think it changes my respect for you: it couldn't.

Nah, I still think you are an ignorant, insipid, unintelligent,amateurish, brainless, foolish, incapable, incompetent, inept, inferior, mindless, pea-brained, senseless, slackwitted, unable, unaccomplished, unendowed, unfinished, unfit, ungifted, unprepared , witless liberal.

And yet, even with all of the above inadequacies, you seem to realize, too late, that it was stupid to give the neg rep and give me the opportunity to pillory you in public.

Yes, too late. And, no, you can't have it back. I'm keeping this bad boy, as it pins the tail on the donkey: you, Nixon.

Let's review "Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day."

I love it.

Oh it won't be the last NEGATIVE REP that I GIVE YOU.

I love how upset you are about it. I've never had anyone complain more than maybe one post. But you are still crying about it?

I don't care what you or your stank beaver thank.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What's this? I think I smell embarrassment.

Making excuses for the neg rep is a sure sign of "Uh, Oh, I made a mistake."

Not to worry, Nixon, it's just one more in a long line.

And don't think it changes my respect for you: it couldn't.

Nah, I still think you are an ignorant, insipid, unintelligent,amateurish, brainless, foolish, incapable, incompetent, inept, inferior, mindless, pea-brained, senseless, slackwitted, unable, unaccomplished, unendowed, unfinished, unfit, ungifted, unprepared , witless liberal.

And yet, even with all of the above inadequacies, you seem to realize, too late, that it was stupid to give the neg rep and give me the opportunity to pillory you in public.

Yes, too late. And, no, you can't have it back. I'm keeping this bad boy, as it pins the tail on the donkey: you, Nixon.

Let's review "Admitting that you could not compete in the open, in the marketplace of ideas, in the light of day."

I love it.

Oh it won't be the last NEGATIVE REP that I GIVE YOU.

I love how upset you are about it. I've never had anyone complain more than maybe one post. But you are still crying about it?

I don't care what you or your stank beaver thank.

Calm down Nixon, you know what the Obama healthcare said about not getting your blood pressure meds. Take a few deep breaths, close your eyes, and think about the best three years of your life, you know, the second grade.

BTW, that would be 'think' not 'thank'... I guess I really unnerved you.

But that won't be the last spotlight I shine on ya'.

Did you think I was crying about you admitting that you once had an original thought, but it died of lonliness? Another misapprehension.

I really laughed, because it showed how my comments hit the nail on your head.

Nobody gives a neg rep when they win an argument. Get it?

Now, let's put you back in the corner and we'll water you twice a day.

 

[Modbert]

Like tax cuts, HSAs are only part of the solution. If you are looking for a single silver bullet to say, "Just do this and it will solve the health care problem, " I don't think it's out there. It's going to take several solutions to provide the right kind of coverage for everybody, not a one size fits all plan. For me and my family, we are mostly healthy. We got an HSA and a high deductible plan that allows us free preventive care outside the deductible and some other features. We chose not to have maternity coverage because we are past that point. So you give in some areas to get in others. It's a good Blue Cross Blue Shield plan for about $350 per month for a family. For a little extra, I also got a dental plan.

I think to deal with some of the valid concerns you raise, there is a role for the government in creating and regulating the larger health insurance market that would be created. The first is the prevention of denial based on pre-existing condition. Only health insurers that would agree to conditions would be allowed to participate in the new nationwide market. (Similar to France, by the way).

We do have to find a way to address the decoupling of payment from consumption. As long as those two pieces are decoupled, we will never have a sustainable, quality and high value health care system. It is one of the primary things that is broken about the current system and a primary thing broken about the French system. What it leads to is over use for unnecessary care. This drives up costs, but doesn't provide increased health care value.

As far as having health insurance companies, the plans under consideration would destroy private health insurance companies within about 5 years. The first 3 years there is some artificial maintenance of private insurers, but after that you will have a choice (well "you" won't, the providers of coverage will) of a private company offering a required minimum level of plan and the government offering a similar plan. The government plan does not have to be revenue neutral much less profitable so it will drive the private insurers out of the market. So, in less than 10 years, you can virtually guarantee there will not be a private insurance market or any private health insurers.

How do we know? This is pretty much the same plan the Candians used when they implemented their socialized medicine plan.

I agree, and that's the point I'm trying to get across, there is no one size fits all plan. Obviously, single payer wouldn't work for everybody so leave that option open for a private health insurance company or an HSA. Thank you for the part I bolded, that's the sort of thinking I'm saying we need here and now. It's one of the biggest things I like about the current proposal.

I agree that the current proposal does not have to be profitable , I'd want a proposal that will help others most of all with adequate care. However, I think we both can agree if certain things in the current HC industry doesn't change then all of these plans will be for naught.

This is a problem throughout the U.S though, so many industries need to be revamped to not only get rid of waste but to make it easier for Americans in general.

 

[KMAN]

If you knew there was a car out there that worked better than your car and cost $6K less, would you buy it?

They are ripping us off and you know it.

Once again, like Obama you fail to answer the question.... go figure.

You too:

If you knew there was a car out there that worked better than your car and cost $6K less, would you buy it?

They are ripping us off and you know it.

I am going to request a on tv town hall style meeting between the insurance defenders and the single payer/public option people and see who wins with facts and who gets exposed.

It is clear Obama answered all of your questions last night. What else you got? Do you have any problems with what Obama said? Deny any of his facts? Oh yea, the number of people uninsured. Lets waste time debating what that number is.

I have no idea what you are talking about but I will answer your question even though you won't anser mine... Cost is not the only thing I consider when buying a car... Depends on the options.

Care to answer my question now????

 

[KMAN]

The Health Care Debate at this point on this board is no longer a debate. It's a bunch of disinformation, personal attacks, and outright dishonesty.

I'd love to have an actual debate on the merits of this issue but I have been unable in having people respond to my thread about Health Care because I use facts. What those who are against Health Care reform seem to be forgetting is that the current system is broken. Health Care costs are one of the top reasons that people today declare bankruptcy. (Though we can all thank Bush/Republicans/Several Democrats alike for making it harder for the average American to declare Bankruptcy thanks to the bill basically written by the credit card industry).

The Drug Lobby has spent over $1 BILLION in the last ten years. Now why those of you obsessed with Obama to the point that it's become unhealthy seem to want anything he brings up to fail. One must remember how the current system is, and that it needs change. Now, does this need to involve the Government? No.

However, I do not see any viable Republican plan at the moment, other than just plain tax breaks or tax cuts. Now, while those are nice, they do not solve the Health Care's iron grip over the average American and the fact the Health Care company can screw over the Average Joe on any given day.


Edit: I would answer your question you posed in the OP KMAN but it's not even a honest question.

That's a typical cop out Robert... just like a politician... You should run for office.

 

[KMAN]

Still batting 1000 at missing the point.

See, you are Nixon, you. Get it Y-O-U

'Caise no real left-winger, as you pose to be, could possible be as dumb, bird-brained, ignorant (OOPS- That's the Brat), uninformed, oblivious, benighted, etc., no matter how much public schooling they had or how much community organizing they had done, so, I have applied the precepts of the world's greatest consulting detective, Sherlock Holmes, who said

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "-- The Sign of the Four

Therefore, you must be a far-right-exteme-way-way-out Republican, claiming to be a lefty to make all lefties look bad (even though they do a commendable job by themselves).

Get it, Nixon?

Amazing that all of the sudden the mood from the right is much different today than it was yesterday. Yesterday you guys were all over the place and wondering where us liberals were.

Then Obama squashed all your lies and bs and today you guys seemed to have lost your message.

That's the key. Control the conversation. We have control back.

Now, you can continue to question Obama after 6 months on the job. Go for it. You all sound like idiots.

Youmust not be reading the same posts I am... Obama is getting killed in here.... but that's tytpical lefty debate...

 

[KMAN]

has anyone noticed that not one supporter of government run healthcare has answered the original question.