Punishing The Innocent

Sonny Clark

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
 

Shikica

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I think that it's important to point out (Before people come in and start large semantic arguments over cursory details) that while it is unavoidable that some innocent people will be found guilty in court due to human error... it is a fact that the justice system aims to arrest more people. Therefore people who are not proven guilty, but for whom theres reasonable evidence that they COULD be guilty, will always be charged. This is much more common to happen to poorer demographics though like black and latino people in the US. This is because a poor family/individual is a lot less likely to have the resources to fight back against the system.

Why are the courts doing this you ask? Well it's called the prison industrial complex for a reason. Prison labor is basically slave labor, and there are a lot of corporations that will pay good money to have access to this nearly unpaid labor. Prisons are becoming privatized, and a lot of the small industries based around prisoners have been taking over by a monopoly. Conditions are worsening as more and more people are being thrown in jail and being continuously denied reentry to society.

Yes you read that correctly: the courtroom is now a business deal
 

whitehall

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Aside from divine intervention, the U.S. system of justice is the best legal concept on the planet. Try getting an automatic judicial review or the Constitutional right of a prisoner petitioning the government in any other country. Keep whining and criticizing the greatest Country in the world while you consider that there are more potential lawyers in US law school today than ever walked the earth.
 

Shikica

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Aside from divine intervention, the U.S. system of justice is the best legal concept on the planet. Try getting an automatic judicial review or the Constitutional right of a prisoner petitioning the government in any other country. Keep whining and criticizing the greatest Country in the world while you consider that there are more potential lawyers in US law school today than ever walked the earth.
Wow, I get my post in hours before this guy shows up and it still doesn't make a difference :eusa_wall:

Sorry Sonny Clark I tried
 

Disir

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
 
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Sonny Clark

Sonny Clark

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
 

Disir

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
 
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Sonny Clark

Sonny Clark

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
I believe that a person can be held 72 hours without being charged with a crime. Someone could be denied bail based on several things. If they are a flight risk, some cases that are serious enough to deny bail, and other reasons. Some states have paid restitution, and it's well documented. I'm not sure if my state ( Georgia ) did anything with funding for lawyers ( public defenders ). Why are you asking these questions? Purpose?
 

Disir

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
I believe that a person can be held 72 hours without being charged with a crime. Someone could be denied bail based on several things. If they are a flight risk, some cases that are serious enough to deny bail, and other reasons. Some states have paid restitution, and it's well documented. I'm not sure if my state ( Georgia ) did anything with funding for lawyers ( public defenders ). Why are you asking these questions? Purpose?
Because if you can't clearly articulate the issues then there is no chance at resolving them. Having chosen not to articulate them then what you have is paramount to jumping up and down and throwing a tantrum or can be misconstrued as intentionally keeping it fact free.

Georgia has made severe cuts---noted since 2008 for public defenders.
Senate slashes money for public defenders The Augusta Chronicle

New leader same problems for Ga. public defenders AccessNorthGa
 
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Sonny Clark

Sonny Clark

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
I believe that a person can be held 72 hours without being charged with a crime. Someone could be denied bail based on several things. If they are a flight risk, some cases that are serious enough to deny bail, and other reasons. Some states have paid restitution, and it's well documented. I'm not sure if my state ( Georgia ) did anything with funding for lawyers ( public defenders ). Why are you asking these questions? Purpose?
Because if you can't clearly articulate the issues then there is no chance at resolving them. Having chosen not to articulate them then what you have is paramount to jumping up and down and throwing a tantrum or can be misconstrued as intentionally keeping it fact free.

Georgia has made severe cuts---noted since 2008 for public defenders.
Senate slashes money for public defenders The Augusta Chronicle

New leader same problems for Ga. public defenders AccessNorthGa
FYI - I wasn't trying to give a course in LAW. I wasn't trying the attack every law on the books. I was stating the obvious situation without our legal system, nothing more. I'm not a lawyer, and never claimed to be one. What is taking place in the judicial system is wrong, by any measure. You can argue the law all day long, but it doesn't explain nor take away from the points of the root article. I stated facts. If you can dispute what the root article states, then by all means do so.
 

Disir

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How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
I believe that a person can be held 72 hours without being charged with a crime. Someone could be denied bail based on several things. If they are a flight risk, some cases that are serious enough to deny bail, and other reasons. Some states have paid restitution, and it's well documented. I'm not sure if my state ( Georgia ) did anything with funding for lawyers ( public defenders ). Why are you asking these questions? Purpose?
Because if you can't clearly articulate the issues then there is no chance at resolving them. Having chosen not to articulate them then what you have is paramount to jumping up and down and throwing a tantrum or can be misconstrued as intentionally keeping it fact free.

Georgia has made severe cuts---noted since 2008 for public defenders.
Senate slashes money for public defenders The Augusta Chronicle

New leader same problems for Ga. public defenders AccessNorthGa
FYI - I wasn't trying to give a course in LAW. I wasn't trying the attack every law on the books. I was stating the obvious situation without our legal system, nothing more. I'm not a lawyer, and never claimed to be one. What is taking place in the judicial system is wrong, by any measure. You can argue the law all day long, but it doesn't explain nor take away from the points of the root article. I stated facts. If you can dispute what the root article states, then by all means do so.

FYI-I didn't assume that you were trying to give a course on law.

No, you didn't state facts. You opined and threw in reference to some vague-ish facts and then declared that the system was definitely jacked and then said: this is why.

You don't have to be an attorney. I asked you questions to what was relevant to your post. You're telling me that the system is wrong but you can't identify what the hell is wrong with it.
 
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Sonny Clark

Sonny Clark

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No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
I believe that a person can be held 72 hours without being charged with a crime. Someone could be denied bail based on several things. If they are a flight risk, some cases that are serious enough to deny bail, and other reasons. Some states have paid restitution, and it's well documented. I'm not sure if my state ( Georgia ) did anything with funding for lawyers ( public defenders ). Why are you asking these questions? Purpose?
Because if you can't clearly articulate the issues then there is no chance at resolving them. Having chosen not to articulate them then what you have is paramount to jumping up and down and throwing a tantrum or can be misconstrued as intentionally keeping it fact free.

Georgia has made severe cuts---noted since 2008 for public defenders.
Senate slashes money for public defenders The Augusta Chronicle

New leader same problems for Ga. public defenders AccessNorthGa
FYI - I wasn't trying to give a course in LAW. I wasn't trying the attack every law on the books. I was stating the obvious situation without our legal system, nothing more. I'm not a lawyer, and never claimed to be one. What is taking place in the judicial system is wrong, by any measure. You can argue the law all day long, but it doesn't explain nor take away from the points of the root article. I stated facts. If you can dispute what the root article states, then by all means do so.

FYI-I didn't assume that you were trying to give a course on law.

No, you didn't state facts. You opined and threw in reference to some vague-ish facts and then declared that the system was definitely jacked and then said: this is why.

You don't have to be an attorney. I asked you questions to what was relevant to your post. You're telling me that the system is wrong but you can't identify what the hell is wrong with it.
I clearly stated what is wrong with the system. We place innocent people in our jails and prisons. We have favoritism and corruption in our courts. We have deal making behind closed doors. We have evidence tampering. We have jail house snitches giving false testimony. We have extreme prejudice where members of law enforcement is right and everyone else is wrong. We have bogus charges. There are a ton of things wrong within our judicial system. It doesn't take an MIT graduate, nor a Philadelphia lawyer to see it either. The post speaks of injustices. I stated enough in the post for someone to understand that we do have a serious problem within the judicial system in this country.
 

DGS49

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What's wrong with the system is that it is administered by fallible humans.

There are abundant measures in place to see that an innocent person is never convicted, and even if convicted is not incarcerated. The presumption of innocence and proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" are foremost, but not by any means the only protections that the innocent have. There are rights of appeal, the right of habeus corpus, and so on. And even when all of this fails, some people are able to be freed simply because the trier-of-fact fucked up (see, "The Innocence Project").

On the other side of the ledger, we knowingly release thousands of known felons because of procedural problems with the arrest, handling of evidence, flawed questioning of the accused, and violation of many arcane, illogical "rights" that have been created by various courts. Thousands more guilty bastards are never apprehended or are released because The Man was not able to mount a sufficiently strong case to convict. Many "exonerations" are the result of people committing many crimes, but not the particular crime for which he was convicted.

DNA evidence and other sophisticated science-based methods are resulting in the exoneration and release of "many" people, nation-wide, but to be honest, it is an infinitesimal fraction of the total inmate population - little consolation to the innocent victims, I know, but relevant from a policy standpoint.

The total picture is of one where we already take extraordinary measures to avoid convicting innocent people. If you want to be concerned about something, be concerned about this: The Police departments of our country are experiencing tremendous pressure these days because the percentage of "Blacks" arrested and convicted is greater than the Powers That Be would like. Police are government workers before anything else, and they will bend to this pressure rather than face reprimands and poor performance appraisals, the result being that many forms of criminal conduct will be tolerated or ignored by police.

Happily, the burden of this excessive tolerance will be borne primarily by the minority community.
 

Shikica

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[ This piece was written on 9/16/2003. I wrote it in response to several stories of innocent citizens that had served years behind bars before being proven innocent. This speaks to freedom and justice, or the lack thereof. ]

Punishing The Innocent


In the United States of America, only the guilty are punished. In America, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Of course, these two statements are far from being true. The examples and stories of lost freedom, and injustice, are too numerous to list in this article, but the “many” that are unjustly imprisoned and jailed bear this out. Too many times an innocent person is jailed for hours, weeks, even months before charges are dropped or a jury finds them not guilty. Too many times an innocent person serves years in prison before DNA evidence clears them of the crime that put them behind bars. Too many times an innocent person is held for hours, even days before it’s decided that there’s not enough evidence to hold them on charges. Of the several reasons this injustice happens, the main one is obviously “A LACK OF PROPER INVESTIGATING”.

The “standard operating procedure” for law enforcement is to arrest a likely suspect, then try to build their case around that person. More often than not, this results in a circumstantial evidence case where solid evidence is nonexistent. A “proper investigation” would either produce solid evidence, or it wouldn’t, resulting in either an arrest of the guilty or no arrest at all. A person’s guilt, or innocence, is like a woman claiming to be pregnant. A woman is either pregnant or she’s not, there’s no gray area. The same can be said for guilt or innocence, either the solid evidence is there or it isn’t, there’s no gray area. Solid evidence, and only solid evidence, can produce the “Absolute Truth”. Why law enforcement arrest someone first, without solid evidence, and looks for evidence afterwards, is beyond moral, ethical, and civilized reasoning. This, in reality, is legalized kidnapping. In some cases, not only does the innocent person lose their freedom, but lose their marriage, employment, home, and the relationship with their children. How can this, under any circumstance, be justified or rationally excused?

When a wrongfully imprisoned person is released, they get nothing but an “I’m sorry” from the court. They get absolutely no restitution for being imprisoned, yet they’ve lost everything. We send our men and women, serving in the armed forces, all over the world to fight in the name of “Freedom”. Our national anthem has a line that says we’re the “land of the free”. The “Pledge of Allegiance” says we’re a nation “with liberty and justice for all”. In reality, we have conditional freedom and justice that can be taken away from us in the blink of an eye by “a false accusation”, or by “being at the wrong place at the wrong time”. This immoral and uncivilized imprisoning of the innocent will continue as long as our judges allow circumstantial evidence cases in their courtrooms. We’ll continue to have the innocent arrested and held, as long as law enforcement has the legal authority to do so, without first having solid evidence proving their guilt.

As long as judges, district attorneys, and law enforcement are not required to pay restitution to the innocent, this legalized kidnapping and confinement will continue. We’re not innocent until proven guilty; we’re guilty until we can prove our innocence. Two well-known attorneys, who were part of the O J Simpson defense team, are gaining the release of imprisoned innocent men and women by using DNA testing. Other attorneys are fighting hard for the same cause by doing what should’ve been done at the beginning, doing a “Proper Investigation”. A lot of effort is being spent to free the innocent, but nothing is being done to stop the innocent from losing their freedom. Until district attorneys and law enforcement start doing “Proper Investigations” before they take someone’s freedom away, we’ll continue to “ PUNISH THE INNOCENT “.
How long can you be held without charges? Why might someone be held without bail? What is the Reid Interrogation technique? What has been the European response to it? How many states will pay "restitution"? Did your state slash funding for public defenders?


I understand that this was written in 2003. You have had ample time to revise it. Not a word on the impact of the money spent in elections for judges.
No, it doesn't cover all of the bases, and wasn't meant to cover all bases. Yes, judges are corrupt, dishonest, and make deals behind closed doors. There are many issues not covered in the root article. Please feel free to start a thread on the issues that I left out.
Can you answer ANY of those questions?
I believe that a person can be held 72 hours without being charged with a crime. Someone could be denied bail based on several things. If they are a flight risk, some cases that are serious enough to deny bail, and other reasons. Some states have paid restitution, and it's well documented. I'm not sure if my state ( Georgia ) did anything with funding for lawyers ( public defenders ). Why are you asking these questions? Purpose?
Because if you can't clearly articulate the issues then there is no chance at resolving them. Having chosen not to articulate them then what you have is paramount to jumping up and down and throwing a tantrum or can be misconstrued as intentionally keeping it fact free.

Georgia has made severe cuts---noted since 2008 for public defenders.
Senate slashes money for public defenders The Augusta Chronicle

New leader same problems for Ga. public defenders AccessNorthGa
Oh, but his post was just a cursory examination of the problems involving the justice system at the moment. You may know a lot on the topic but I don't think that the OP was intended for people who have deeply investigated this.

If you would be interested though I would love to have an in dpeth conversation on the justice system in relation to corporate prisons and other related industries that cause corruption in the courts. I'll make a thread on that later perhaps tomorrow, I'll try to remember to quote you so you can see it and we can discuss.
 

Disir

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Oh, but his post was just a cursory examination of the problems involving the justice system at the moment.
His post was a liberal version of Glenn Beck.
 

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