Debate Now Prove your case! Is Homosexuality genetic or a choice?

[Syriusly]

I haven't seen any evidence to support the idea that attraction is a choice- and homosexuality is first and foremost about attraction.

I respectfully must disagree. If a homosexual is able to ignore his/her attraction to the same sex in order to mate with the opposite sex, then that screams "choice" to me.

Well then we shall just respectfully disagree.

Fair enough.

I am curious- I didn't see you respond to my posts about how there are additional alternatives to 'genetics' and 'choice'- do you agree that there are additional possible alternatives?

Or even that within the entire population- no one answer necessarily applies to everyone.

 

[sealybobo]

I never claimed that. What I said was gay men don't breed with lesbian women.
You would need both parents to pass on a mythical gay gene to have a gay kid. Homosexual reproduction is so rare that genetic gays would become extinct in 10 or 12 generations.

Ernie

You are assuming that gays give birth to gays which is simply untrue.

Those of you who believe gays do not or cannot reproduce and that would inevitably result in their own extinction are completely ignoring the fact that your own opinion means homosexuality should have occurred in the first place.

Simply put, it is heterosexuals who produce homosexuals.

And the procreation case often used against gays could also be used against us straights. Not all straight married couples have kids. Therefore, using Ernie's logic, any straight people who have not produced children cannot really be straight, right?

Oh, what a slippery slope...

Should straights who produce gay children be punished?

If it were possible to identify homosexuality in utero, would homophobes want those fetuses aborted?

They've figured out how to eliminate or lower the probability of a fetus getting breast cancer. It has to do with the father and mothers genes mixing. So they can identify the gene and get rid of it. Pretty cool? Would I do that if my kid had a high chance of being gay? Would I eliminate the gay gene? As much as I love gay people I would. Wouldnt want my kid being gay although I would love them if they turned out to be gay.

I think that is how a lot of us feel- though I would qualify it as:

I wouldn't want my child to face the discrimination that homosexuals face- if I could prevent my child from suffering

And historically this is what often happened, for women less by choice, by men in order to produce heirs/children to support them.

Then from this premise I am forced to conclude that if they can make a choice to mate with the opposite sex AND someone they don't particularly like (or plaster themselves with vodka beforehand), then becoming a homosexual may also be a choice. Behavior is a choice in and of itself. Acknowledging the need for continuance of a family line further acknowledges the heterosexual side of the human species.

To me there is a lot of common sense and contradictions all at once...

Let us get personal for a moment-

I, to my knowledge, have never made any conscious choice of who to be attracted to- I have been attracted to women as far back as I can remember.

But- I have made conscious choices - and sometimes bad choices- about which women I choose to have sex with.

I haven't seen any evidence to support the idea that attraction is a choice- and homosexuality is first and foremost about attraction.

The physical act can be done by anyone- heterosexuals can have homosexual sex, and homosexuals can have heterosexual sex- but I have never met anyone who has acknowledged an actual choice in attraction.

And what about people who would screw anything? Might not have anything to do with who they're attracted to. They might just get off on getting off. I love blonde bombshells dime but I'll date a brunette 6.

 

[sealybobo]

I haven't seen any evidence to support the idea that attraction is a choice- and homosexuality is first and foremost about attraction.

I respectfully must disagree. If a homosexual is able to ignore his/her attraction to the same sex in order to mate with the opposite sex, then that screams "choice" to me.

Well then we shall just respectfully disagree.

Fair enough.

I am curious- I didn't see you respond to my posts about how there are additional alternatives to 'genetics' and 'choice'- do you agree that there are additional possible alternatives?

Or even that within the entire population- no one answer necessarily applies to everyone.

That's what I've been saying! If you think its a choice then that is true for you. Everyone is different. 50 shades of gay.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I am curious- I didn't see you respond to my posts about how there are additional alternatives to 'genetics' and 'choice'- do you agree that there are additional possible alternatives?

Yes, in fact I do. Societal and environmental pressure, hormonal imbalance, bloodflow differential between a pair of twins, and etc. It isn't as clear cut as just genetics and choice.

 

[Michelle420]

I like brown eyes

 

[sealybobo]

I haven't seen any evidence to support the idea that attraction is a choice- and homosexuality is first and foremost about attraction.

I respectfully must disagree. If a homosexual is able to ignore his/her attraction to the same sex in order to mate with the opposite sex, then that screams "choice" to me.

What about the ones so gay they couldnt? So it depends on the individual.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What about the ones so gay they couldnt? So it depends on the individual.

I don't understand the question.

 

[sealybobo]

I like brown eyes

Great example of how everyone is different. Do you ever feel like you are a woman trapped in a mans body and have a surgery where they slice your penus and tuck it in so its a mangina?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I like brown eyes

Great example of how everyone is different. Do you ever feel like you are a woman trapped in a mans body and have a surgery where they slice your penus and tuck it in so its a mangina?

Gah.

 

[sealybobo]

What about the ones so gay they couldnt? So it depends on the individual.

I don't understand the question.

You say its a choice because some bisexuals can marry women to have kids. What about the ones who couldn't because they are too gay?

Bottom line ask yourself this. Is it a choice for you? Then there is your truth for you but not anyone else.

 

[sealybobo]

I like brown eyes

Great example of how everyone is different. Do you ever feel like you are a woman trapped in a mans body and have a surgery where they slice your penus and tuck it in so its a mangina?

Gah.

I lol'ed big time before hitting post on that one.

 

[sealybobo]

I like brown eyes

Hazel! They say if we were all the same color this is what we would would fight about. Would blue eye people be snobs? Green? I'd wear fake colored contacts to fit in. Lol

 

[RKMBrown]

From this and countless other studies, I draw the conclusion that these behaviors are by choice, aided and pushed by genetic chemical based drives and desires, but still they are behaviors led by choice by thinking life forms.

You would be surprised that I actually agree with this.

 

[RKMBrown]

This argument is not based on our "love" of people it's based on our fear of people.

My uncle was gay before he was murdered in 2004 when I was 16. I wanted to know him. It was always cool to find out that one has an uncle. My Dad was was hit hard enough by it. I loved him just like I did my other family. So, I am not afraid of gay people, I am simply not afraid to dig into what makes them gay. I have three friends on my facebook friends list who are gay, there was a show I watched all the way through to the last season that had a bisexual pair of young women.

I don't hate nor fear them whatsoever.

My response was more the to homophobia, that drove laws against homophobic behaviors, and thus led to current ingrains where people believe there is something very wrong with homophobic behavior. I know it's odd to think of homophobic behaviors as natural, but I put it to you that if you don't agree it's natural and you insist it's not based on homophobia, well then were does this view come from if not fear?

There is no harm done to you if someone exhibits homophobic behavior correct?

 

[sealybobo]

This argument is not based on our "love" of people it's based on our fear of people.

My uncle was gay before he was murdered in 2004 when I was 16. I wanted to know him. It was always cool to find out that one has an uncle. My Dad was was hit hard enough by it. I loved him just like I did my other family. So, I am not afraid of gay people, I am simply not afraid to dig into what makes them gay. I have three friends on my facebook friends list who are gay, there was a show I watched all the way through to the last season that had a bisexual pair of young women.

I don't hate nor fear them whatsoever.

My response was more the to homophobia, that drove laws against homophobic behaviors, and thus led to current ingrains where people believe there is something very wrong with homophobic behavior. I know it's odd to think of homophobic behaviors as natural, but I put it to you that if you don't agree it's natural and you insist it's not based on homophobia, well then were does this view come from if not fear?

There is no harm done to you if someone exhibits homophobic behavior correct?

Yea good point. Are homophobic born that way? I'm not homophobic. Is it a choice for me not to be homophobic but homophobes are born that way or the other way around? That's deep.

 

[Michelle420]

I like brown eyes

Great example of how everyone is different. Do you ever feel like you are a woman trapped in a mans body and have a surgery where they slice your penus and tuck it in so its a mangina?

Would it matter if I did since it's my body ?

 

[sealybobo]

I like brown eyes

Great example of how everyone is different. Do you ever feel like you are a woman trapped in a mans body and have a surgery where they slice your penus and tuck it in so its a mangina?

Would it matter if I did since it's my body ?

No and I'd be ashamed and embarrassed I tried to make a point at your expense.

 

[RKMBrown]

This argument is not based on our "love" of people it's based on our fear of people.

My uncle was gay before he was murdered in 2004 when I was 16. I wanted to know him. It was always cool to find out that one has an uncle. My Dad was was hit hard enough by it. I loved him just like I did my other family. So, I am not afraid of gay people, I am simply not afraid to dig into what makes them gay. I have three friends on my facebook friends list who are gay, there was a show I watched all the way through to the last season that had a bisexual pair of young women.

I don't hate nor fear them whatsoever.

My response was more the to homophobia, that drove laws against homophobic behaviors, and thus led to current ingrains where people believe there is something very wrong with homophobic behavior. I know it's odd to think of homophobic behaviors as natural, but I put it to you that if you don't agree it's natural and you insist it's not based on homophobia, well then were does this view come from if not fear?

There is no harm done to you if someone exhibits homophobic behavior correct?

Yea good point. Are homophobic born that way? I'm not homophobic. Is it a choice for me not to be homophobic but homophobes are born that way or the other way around? That's deep.

Ding ding ding... that's exactly where I was heading back in post #45. Homophobia can be a learned behavior, homophobic behavior may also be a learned behavior. I was taught to be a flaming homophobe back in the 60s and 70s. Those early ingrains are hard to overcome and how do you know if said ingrains are learned or... dna encoded proclivities?

 

[Michelle420]

This argument is not based on our "love" of people it's based on our fear of people.

My uncle was gay before he was murdered in 2004 when I was 16. I wanted to know him. It was always cool to find out that one has an uncle. My Dad was was hit hard enough by it. I loved him just like I did my other family. So, I am not afraid of gay people, I am simply not afraid to dig into what makes them gay. I have three friends on my facebook friends list who are gay, there was a show I watched all the way through to the last season that had a bisexual pair of young women.

I don't hate nor fear them whatsoever.

My response was more the to homophobia, that drove laws against homophobic behaviors, and thus led to current ingrains where people believe there is something very wrong with homophobic behavior. I know it's odd to think of homophobic behaviors as natural, but I put it to you that if you don't agree it's natural and you insist it's not based on homophobia, well then were does this view come from if not fear?

There is no harm done to you if someone exhibits homophobic behavior correct?

If you want to be homophobic in your thought go ahead. Shrug. Just don't allow your thought to make you behave barbaric Example: hate crimes, or allow you to discriminate and act out on your homophobia.

As the world view changes understand that people may not agree with you, I am sure you are fine with that.

 

[Michelle420]

I like brown eyes

Great example of how everyone is different. Do you ever feel like you are a woman trapped in a mans body and have a surgery where they slice your penus and tuck it in so its a mangina?

Would it matter if I did since it's my body ?

No and I'd be ashamed and embarrassed I tried to make a point at your expense.

You made the point fine. You: would be ashamed and embarrassed. But you are not me, nor are you Templar, or RKMBrown and so you don't get to decide what another individual does with their body.