Progressives Killed Eric Garner

[Ravi]

Wow, this is like saying that since prudish Republicans keep public nudity illegal, cops are free to kill nude people and it will be all the fault of Republicans.

The state profits from nudity?

How so?

Maybe not public nudity but I am pretty sure the states tax the porn industry. To what extent I don't know.

Just like any other business. And public nudity would hurt the porn industry, just like selling ciggies loose hurts the tobacco merchants.

 

[Jarhead]

Eric Garner DID commit suicide.by failing to comply with the commands of the NYPD officers on the scene. At that point any negative outcome was his own fault.

I say this as an individual who truly expects to see his life end at the hands of LEOs, but when you resist an officer or fail to comply with commands, you have to expect the worst response (for you) possible.

The choke hold is clearly against NYPD policy, the officer in question should be fired.

It was not a choke hold. That is what the media refers it to....and progressives jumped on it.

A choke hold is when you hold someone to the point where they can not breathe.

The man continually said "I cant breathe"....

If one cant breathe, one can not say they cant breathe....thus the reason for the universal sign of choking...it is the only way a choking person can say they are choking.

It was not a choke hold. It was a wrestling hold commonly known as a half nelson.

The media makes the intelligent, like you, look stupid.

Maybe you just forgot to watch the video.

maybe you forgot to read my post.

As the video shows, the man is saying "I cant breathe"..

If one cant breathe, then one can not speak. Breathe is necessary to speak. That is fact.

The video clearly shows the man in a half nelson...a commonly used wresting move and a commonly used police tactic used to keep someone under their control.

Know your facts before calling for the firing of someone

You are mistaken on both of the points you are attempting to make. A half nelson looks nothing like the policeman's hold and people are able to talk while being choked. Choking is a relatively slow death.

Wrong.

Here is an image of a half nelson:

As for Being able to speak while choking....

You are 100% wrong

"Choking means that a person is unable to breathe or speak because the throat or windpipe is completely obstructed"
How to Help a Choking Victim with Illustrations

 

[boedicca]

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

Scuze me, but what caused his selling loose cigarettes to be a crime worthy of police action?

See my post #63......it is legit. They have to in an effort to protect the owner of the property

Really? They had to use force? This was a petty regulatory infraction and should have resulted in a citation at most.

They asked him to move along. They had to. To allow him to continue selling cigarettes there would be wrong to the owner of the property.
The police action was not due to what he was selling.
It was due to the fact that he would not "move along"

Wow, the media really does not want folks to know the facts on this one.

Here in NYC, they did when it happened...and still are.

I'll go back to the proximate cause: an asinine regulation made by the Obama Administration in 2010 which made selling loose cigarettes illegal...which just added to the pile of overwhelming regs that turn everyone into a criminal.

First they came for Eric Garner...

 

[Pop23]

Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause

Raising the cigarette tax is a favored progressive cause, eh?

Jindal tax plan would raise state sales tax rate to 5.88 percent

Part of Jindal's tax plan:

The proposal also calls for increasing the state's cigarette tax from 36 cents to $1.41 per pack.

Moving on to that bastion of Liberalism, the socialist state of Arizona:

Indeed, it's no surprise that the public in Arizona would favor a cigarette tax increase above all else. On at least two prior occasions (Prop 200 in 1994 and Prop 303 in 2002), Arizona voters approved increases in the state's cigarette tax.

This time, however, voters would not only be approving an increase in the state cigarette tax (from the current rate of $1.18 per pack to a new rate of $1.98 per pack) as well as increases in other tobacco products, but they would also approve the creation of a special "board" that would determine how the funds generated (~$150 million per year) would be spent. This board would be appointed by the governor and approved by the legislature.

Arizona is Hooked on Cigarette Tax Revenue Tax Foundation

Are you suggesting progressives dont want conficatory taxes on cigarettes?

Roughly 60% of all cigarettes in New York are black market. The tax per pack is over $5.00 PER PACK. Over $50.00 per carton.

Don't arrests the dude, make him buy a couple of cartons. That's punishment enough.

 

[SwimExpert]

A choke hold is when you hold someone to the point where they can not breathe.

No, "choke hold" is a misnomer that includes holds where airflow, blood flow, or both are the effect. The majority of choke holds are of the blood flow type (which is technically strangulation). If you really are a jar head, you ought to know this.

The man continually said "I cant breathe"....

If one cant breathe, one can not say they cant breathe....thus the reason for the universal sign of choking...it is the only way a choking person can say they are choking.

You are wrongly claiming that choking only occurs when 100% of two way airflow is obstructed. Choking often involves only a partial obstruction of air flow. Inhalation is typically obstructed to a greater degree than exhalation, due to the fact that the human body is capable of delivering more force to exhalation.

It was not a choke hold. It was a wrestling hold commonly known as a half nelson.

Wow, now you're really babbling bullshit. A half nelson is a pinning technique that places the arm under the opponent's arm and around the back of the neck, not the front, and positions an opponent lying on their back, not in a prone position.

By placing your arm under your opponents arm, and then locking your hand on the back of the neck, you can exert leverage on your opponent to turn him onto his back. Once he is turned, you can slip your arm further in, cradling the back of neck in the crook of your elbow, and use this to secure his head up and away from the mat, which will secure his shoulder blades to the mat, thus gaining a pin.

The media makes the intelligent, like you, look stupid.

Then what's your excuse?

 

[Pop23]

Wow, this is like saying that since prudish Republicans keep public nudity illegal, cops are free to kill nude people and it will be all the fault of Republicans.

The state profits from nudity?

How so?

Maybe not public nudity but I am pretty sure the states tax the porn industry. To what extent I don't know.

Just like any other business. And public nudity would hurt the porn industry, just like selling ciggies loose hurts the tobacco merchants.

Don't buy ciggies, there are cheaper ways.

 

[mdk]

Wow, this is like saying that since prudish Republicans keep public nudity illegal, cops are free to kill nude people and it will be all the fault of Republicans.

The state profits from nudity?

How so?

Maybe not public nudity but I am pretty sure the states tax the porn industry. To what extent I don't know.

Just like any other business. And public nudity would hurt the porn industry, just like selling ciggies loose hurts the tobacco merchants.

Don't buy ciggies, there are cheaper ways.

Oh sure, I know loads of people that roll their own cigarettes. It is markedly cheaper.

 

[Discombobulated]

The choke hold is clearly against NYPD policy, the officer in question should be fired.

It was not a choke hold. That is what the media refers it to....and progressives jumped on it.

A choke hold is when you hold someone to the point where they can not breathe.

The man continually said "I cant breathe"....

If one cant breathe, one can not say they cant breathe....thus the reason for the universal sign of choking...it is the only way a choking person can say they are choking.

It was not a choke hold. It was a wrestling hold commonly known as a half nelson.

The media makes the intelligent, like you, look stupid.

Maybe you just forgot to watch the video.

maybe you forgot to read my post.

As the video shows, the man is saying "I cant breathe"..

If one cant breathe, then one can not speak. Breathe is necessary to speak. That is fact.

The video clearly shows the man in a half nelson...a commonly used wresting move and a commonly used police tactic used to keep someone under their control.

Know your facts before calling for the firing of someone

You are mistaken on both of the points you are attempting to make. A half nelson looks nothing like the policeman's hold and people are able to talk while being choked. Choking is a relatively slow death.

Wrong.

Here is an image of a half nelson:

View attachment 34718

As for Being able to speak while choking....

You are 100% wrong

"Choking means that a person is unable to breathe or speak because the throat or windpipe is completely obstructed"
How to Help a Choking Victim with Illustrations

Begs the question: Could you possibly be more stupid than you are right now?

 

[boedicca]

It's true.
What was the "root cause" of police approaching Garner? He was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes.
Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause, to unbelievable levels. And of course that invites activity to skirt the tax in any way. The simplest is to load up a van in NC, where the tax is low, drive the cigs to NY, where the tax is high, and sell them. They are like arbitragers.
Garner was simply responding to incentives put out by progressives and their insane tax policies and selling cigs to earn a living. But the result was an unforutnate encounter and his death. Better tax policies in NY would have left this man alive.

I couldn't agree more. We have Big Government trying to micro-manage and tax every aspect of Civil Society, and turning banal activities into crimes. No wonder the police are out of control. And Obama's solution is to give them more military grade weapons and equipment.

The Progs complain about the police brutality their Big Government policies enable.

So Washington and Hamilton are responsible for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion? Not hardly.

Your faux relativism is incredibly pathetic.

So if the people responsible for the tax are too blame in this case then Washington and Hamilton are to blame for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion. I think both positions are absurd but you don't and that makes you an inconsistent hypocrite.

I didn't see anything in the news about Eric attacking a tax collector. Link?

 

[boedicca]

Wow, this is like saying that since prudish Republicans keep public nudity illegal, cops are free to kill nude people and it will be all the fault of Republicans.

The state profits from nudity?

How so?

Maybe not public nudity but I am pretty sure the states tax the porn industry. To what extent I don't know.

Just like any other business. And public nudity would hurt the porn industry, just like selling ciggies loose hurts the tobacco merchants.

Are you kidding? I've seen the local nudists walking around Berkeley. Their saggy asses are No Competition for decent pr0n.

 

[g5000]

A person who is being suffocated, but can still speak, is not going to say, "I am having a very difficult time breathing." They are going to say what Garner said. "I can't breathe." Brevity out of necessity while being suffocated. An economy of words to preserve what little air one has left.

He was suffocated. To death. He tried to alert them to this. This is a fact.

 

[The Rabbi]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said. But I hate it anyway, so I'll ignore the details, call it names, attack the messenger, and call them names too. And maybe I can get somebody to believe me instead.

There's nothing that merits refuting in the OP. Blaming this on liberals is like claiming the moon is made of green cheese.

Translation: I can't even grasp the point, much less refute it.

 

[SwimExpert]

This guy was selling cigarettes

There's never been any evidence of that. The police had no evidence of that. They merely "suspected" he was, based on the fact that he has a history of it. When he didn't want to talk to them, they arrested him. Let's be very clear about this: Eric Garner died because the police did not appreciate the fact that he was lawfully exercising his right to not participate in a police investigation where the police did not have probable cause to charge him with a crime.

 

[Ravi]

A person who is being suffocated, but can still speak, is not going to say, "I am having a very difficult time breathing." They are going to say what Garner said. "I can't breathe." Brevity out of necessity while being suffocated. An economy of words to preserve what little air one has left.

He was suffocated. To death. He tried to alert them to this. This is a fact.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

 

[SwimExpert]

How do you know it was excessive?

-It's a banned technique

-It is an extremely dangerous technique

-The officer was not trained in executing the technique

And that just deals with the fact that the choke hold should never have been done, no matter what else may have been true. Doesn't even approach the fact that the cops had no reasonable cause to force Garner to comply with anything they wanted.

 

[Camp]

The forearm around the throat must be the new revised version of the half nelson......very Greco Roman.

It is an issue of where the pressure is placed....via the bicep on the back of the neck (half nelson) or via the forearm on the throat (choke hold).

In this case, it must have been via the pressure on the back of the neck because he was obviously breathing....so it was a half nelson.

You don't know what you are talking about. You obviously don't have a clue about what a half nelson hold is. When applying a half nelson you put your arm under the opponents arm at the armpit and place your hand on the back of the opponents head where the head meets the neck. It is used for rolling the opponent onto his back with leverage. The full nelson is when you duplicate the hold with your other arm and place both of you hands via his other armpit on the back of the opponents head. It is used to hold the opponent in place before launching into your next hold or move.

 

[mdk]

It's true.
What was the "root cause" of police approaching Garner? He was illegally selling untaxed cigarettes.
Now, NY has raised taxes on cigarettes, a favored progressive cause, to unbelievable levels. And of course that invites activity to skirt the tax in any way. The simplest is to load up a van in NC, where the tax is low, drive the cigs to NY, where the tax is high, and sell them. They are like arbitragers.
Garner was simply responding to incentives put out by progressives and their insane tax policies and selling cigs to earn a living. But the result was an unforutnate encounter and his death. Better tax policies in NY would have left this man alive.

I couldn't agree more. We have Big Government trying to micro-manage and tax every aspect of Civil Society, and turning banal activities into crimes. No wonder the police are out of control. And Obama's solution is to give them more military grade weapons and equipment.

The Progs complain about the police brutality their Big Government policies enable.

So Washington and Hamilton are responsible for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion? Not hardly.

Your faux relativism is incredibly pathetic.

So if the people responsible for the tax are too blame in this case then Washington and Hamilton are to blame for the deaths during the Whiskey Rebellion. I think both positions are absurd but you don't and that makes you an inconsistent hypocrite.

I didn't see anything in the news about Eric attacking a tax collector. Link?

I didn't say that he did. If this silly opinion piece is going to assign blame on Progressives for this death then it must do so for those that levied the tax on Whiskey back in the 1790's. Sorry if that gets in the way of your need to blame progressives over this incident.

 

[bripat9643]

Don't you sane people out there just love it when the RWnuts have to twist themselves into a mental pretzel trying to find some way to blame liberals for everything?

No twisting required. It's as obvious as 1+1=2.

 

[The Rabbi]

I looked at the video. Lots of mistakes on both sides. I dont think it warranted indictment of the cops and the guy should have gone with the flow. That said, how did an allegation of selling lucys end up in a pile on by police officers and the guy's death?

 

[SwimExpert]

Here is an image of a half nelson:

View attachment 34718

That's not a half nelson, that's called a head lock.