pro or contra Mossad?

[Zebra]

mossad makes headlines again

i am pro mossad

 

[Bleipriester]

Wait, let me consult my pager first.

 

[BackAgain]

Wait, let me consult my pager first.

 

[shockedcanadian]

mossad makes headlines again

i am pro mossad

This is a loaded question.

I support Israel. I support them because they are a nation of democratic principles and its core is Judaism to the point that its founder encouraged kibbutz's and orthodox Judaism to ensure that these core principles wouldn't disappear. As such, they are an ally of the West as we have a common sharing of basic values that no other nation in the region possesses.

This means in general, I support their intelligence agencies objectives. That assumes these objectives remain true to their faith and also as alliances generally of the West. In the same vein I support CSIS, the CIA, Mi6 etc.

I wouldn't support an "by all means necessary approach" to every problem because then you just become the enemy you are fighting. THAT is worse as it will permeate into a nation until its citizens become miserable and the nation falls. Many nations are int he dustbin of history because of internal agencies (Mossad is not a domestic agency I dont think, that is Shin Bet I believe)

To date there are record numbers of secular citizens in Israel and they can alter the character of a nation which can guide the Mossad to lose its values. To potentially cause the nation to lose its values of democratic principles and free debate (with its core DNA being Judaism). We've seen this secular growth in many places around the world but Israel is a vibrant democracy. More vibrant I would argue than traditional Western nations. They debate in public. It's part of the faith of Judaism and by osmosis it is part of a healthy democracy of disagreement.

Being a realist, the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows so you can't negotiate with those who will kill themselves to kill their enemies. To me, suicide bombers are insane but it would be nearly as insane to try and negotiate with a suicide bomber as he is en route to his target. Also, during times of war, as Israel faces now; more latitude is expected.

They need do their job as any intelligence agency does. It's not always particularly easy rowing. We should all hope that good people on all sides, in every nation, rise to the top so that our species can survive. People of faith can pray and worship as they please in peace. This is true especially for intelligence agencies, on top of them being competent and succeeding.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Wait, let me consult my pager first.

That's unfortunate for you, I am smart enough to use a walkie talkie. I'm not taking any chances!

 

[Donald H]

Relax! There are dozens of reports that there have been no deaths in Israel resulting from Hothi or Hezbollah missiles!

I don't see any indications yet that the god won't continue to keep them safe!

 

[Zebra]

This is a loaded question.

I support Israel. I support them because they are a nation of democratic principles and its core is Judaism to the point that its founder encouraged kibbutz's and orthodox Judaism to ensure that these core principles wouldn't disappear. As such, they are an ally of the West as we have a common sharing of basic values that no other nation in the region possesses.

This means in general, I support their intelligence agencies objectives. That assumes these objectives remain true to their faith and also as alliances generally of the West. In the same vein I support CSIS, the CIA, Mi6 etc.

I wouldn't support an "by all means necessary approach" to every problem because then you just become the enemy you are fighting. THAT is worse as it will permeate into a nation until its citizens become miserable and the nation falls. Many nations are int he dustbin of history because of internal agencies (Mossad is not a domestic agency I dont think, that is Shin Bet I believe)

To date there are record numbers of secular citizens in Israel and they can alter the character of a nation which can guide the Mossad to lose its values. To potentially cause the nation to lose its values of democratic principles and free debate (with its core DNA being Judaism). We've seen this secular growth in many places around the world but Israel is a vibrant democracy. More vibrant I would argue than traditional Western nations. They debate in public. It's part of the faith of Judaism and by osmosis it is part of a healthy democracy of disagreement.

Being a realist, the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows so you can't negotiate with those who will kill themselves to kill their enemies. To me, suicide bombers are insane but it would be nearly as insane to try and negotiate with a suicide bomber as he is en route to his target. Also, during times of war, as Israel faces now; more latitude is expected.

They need do their job as any intelligence agency does. It's not always particularly easy rowing. We should all hope that good people on all sides, in every nation, rise to the top so that our species can survive. People of faith can pray and worship as they please in peace. This is true especially for intelligence agencies, on top of them being competent and succeeding.

i also support Israel …. pagers included ….

 

[shockedcanadian]

i also support Israel …. pagers included ….

It's a valid method in times of war. However, they could be opening Pandoras Box, that's the problem.

Also, I don't have access to the details of exactly how much information they had. For instance, GPS which they might have been able to pick up somehow through a test call to the pagers to know their location.

The reason I raise this concern is I considered the danger if one of these terrorists were on a commercial airplane flying to another city. That would have been devastating to Israels reputation to such a degree that there would have to be resignations or even worse.

So as I said, "any means necessary" doesn't work for me except in the most extreme of cases. One has to analyst the fallout and the risks geopolitically, militarily, economically etc. before employing extreme measures.

That's why I'm on the fence about these methods. Creative yes and it will cause Hezbollah to pause before they attack. However, if they didn't have the location details of the thousands of pagers, I can't say this was not without extreme, unintended consequences.

 

[Donald H]

It's a valid method in times of war. However, they could be opening Pandoras Box, that's the problem.

Also, I don't have access to the details of exactly how much information they had. For instance, GPS which they might have been able to pick up somehow through a test call to the pagers to know their location.

The reason I raise this concern is I considered the danger if one of these terrorists were on a commercial airplane flying to another city. That would have been devastating to Israels reputation to such a degree that there would have to be resignations or even worse.

So as I said, "any means necessary" doesn't work for me except in the most extreme of cases. One has to analyst the fallout and the risks geopolitically, militarily, economically etc. before employing extreme measures.

That's why I'm on the fence about these methods. Creative yes and it will cause Hezbollah to pause before they attack. However, if they didn't have the location details of the thousands of pagers, I can't say this was not without extreme, unintended consequences.

Mentioning the airplane thing was clever. But obviously during a war, the old notion that civilians being targetted no longer applies. And none of their enemies' missiles are capable of killing a single one!

I think it's good at least until there are no Zionist deaths, and then we might be predicting the worst! I think that aircraft carriers need to steer clear and not tempt fate. If America gets involved then Iran does too.

Glad to hear that your personal trouble is back to normal today!

 

[Zebra]

4 pro!