"Pro-life" vs "pro-birth"

[Midnight FM]

My view is that people in the pro-life camp fall into two categories:

1. Pro-life - These people genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and needs to be protected.

2. Pro-birth - These people don't genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and simply want to encourage women to give birth or to encourage procreation in general. These people are motivated by archaic sentiments regarding women and people in general in regards to who should have children, often with a lack of regard for the circumstances and means which children are potentially born into. Often these people argue that a pregnancy is a "potential life" or "will become a baby" if left to its own devices, but fail to substantiate that it actually "is" a human life from the moment of conception, and paint "abortion" with a broad brush (since an abortion 1 day after conception and 1 day before birth are entirely different things which involve entirely different processes).

If we could distinguish these two camps from one another, and do our best to render the "pro-birth" camp irrelevant, I think that the genuinely pro-life camp would have more credibility, and it would be harder to paint them as just "hating women" or being akin to the Taliban.

 

[TemplarKormac]

My view is that people in the pro-life camp fall into two categories:

1. Pro-life - These people genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and needs to be protected.

2. Pro-birth - These people don't genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and simply want to encourage women to give birth or to encourage procreation in general. These people are motivated by archaic sentiments regarding women and people in general in regards to who should have children, often with a lack of regard for the circumstances and means which children are potentially born into. Often these people argue that a pregnancy is a "potential life" or "will become a baby" if left to its own devices, but fail to substantiate that it actually "is" a human life from the moment of conception, and paint "abortion" with a broad brush (since an abortion 1 day after conception and 1 day before birth are entirely different things which involve entirely different processes).

If we could distinguish these two camps from one another, and do our best to render the "pro-birth" camp irrelevant, I think that the genuinely pro-life camp would have more credibility, and it would be harder to paint them as just "hating women" or being akin to the Taliban.

Would it shock you to know I possess elements of both views? I embrace the scientific definition of what an embryo is, while knowing what it is. It is a fetus, which is human life. A human fetus.

This whole scenario fails to see between the lines.

 

[Woodznutz]

My view is that people in the pro-life camp fall into two categories:

1. Pro-life - These people genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and needs to be protected.

2. Pro-birth - These people don't genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and simply want to encourage women to give birth or to encourage procreation in general. These people are motivated by archaic sentiments regarding women and people in general in regards to who should have children, often with a lack of regard for the circumstances and means which children are potentially born into. Often these people argue that a pregnancy is a "potential life" or "will become a baby" if left to its own devices, but fail to substantiate that it actually "is" a human life from the moment of conception, and paint "abortion" with a broad brush (since an abortion 1 day after conception and 1 day before birth are entirely different things which involve entirely different processes).

If we could distinguish these two camps from one another, and do our best to render the "pro-birth" camp irrelevant, I think that the genuinely pro-life camp would have more credibility, and it would be harder to paint them as just "hating women" or being akin to the Taliban.

Personhood begins at conception. Everything that person will become is encoded in the DNA of father's sperm and mother-to-be's egg.

Regarding the "circumstances" of that child's birth, God gave instructions to make sure you can provide for your wife and children before marrying and having kids.

 

[Correll]

My view is that people in the pro-life camp fall into two categories:

1. Pro-life - These people genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and needs to be protected.

2. Pro-birth - These people don't genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and simply want to encourage women to give birth or to encourage procreation in general. These people are motivated by archaic sentiments regarding women and people in general....

Stopped reading here. Sounds like leftard shit talk.

"Archaic" means not progressive swill. So, RIGHT THINKING.

 

[Midnight FM]

Stopped reading here. Sounds like leftard shit talk.

"Archaic" means not progressive swill. So, RIGHT THINKING.

Archaic simply means archaic, such as the notion that people, with an emphasis on women, are under some compulsion to give birth.

 

[Correll]

Archaic simply means archaic, such as the notion that people, with an emphasis on women, are under some compulsion to give birth.

Shit talk to justify supporting, hell, CELEBRATING abortion.

IN the real world, when people talk shit like that, they know that they are in the wrong on an issue.

 

[Midnight FM]

Shit talk to justify supporting, hell, CELEBRATING abortion.

IN the real world, when people talk shit like that, they know that they are in the wrong on an issue.

The only issue worth considering regarding abortion is when a human life begins.

Concerns that "not enough people are giving birth" are irrelevant to the issue, since the state is not in a place to encourage people to give birth (also known as positive eugenics).

 

[Mack The Finger]

IMHO using AB as a form of birth control is not for women's health...it is murder.

 

[Winston]

Regarding the "circumstances" of that child's birth, God gave instructions to make sure you can provide for your wife and children before marrying and having kids.

I am going to need some scripture here. Otherwise, you are talking out your ass.

 

[buttercup]

How many threads on the abortion issue are you going to start? Isn't this the 3rd or 4th one you've started since yesterday?

 

[Chuz Life]

The only issue worth considering regarding abortion is when a human life begins.

If only!

I'll let the house pro-aborts school you on the rest.

 

[Correll]

The only issue worth considering regarding abortion is when a human life begins.

Let me guess, you think that is BIRTH, correct?

Concerns that "not enough people are giving birth" are irrelevant to the issue, since the state is not in a place to encourage people to give birth (also known as positive eugenics).

SUre. Because the effects of your policy, you don't want discussed, because that puts them in the context of RESULTS and where we as a society want to go.

Shit lefties like to pretend is ... off topic or something.


Consider that you are on a POLITICAL DISCUSSION SITE, arguing AGAINST the very concept of discussion political policy.


That is your brain trying to deal with the fact that it knows that your position is wrong.

 

[Seth]

My view is that people in the pro-life camp fall into two categories:

1. Pro-life - These people genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and needs to be protected.

I fall into the Pro-Life category too. I see elective abortion not as a political issue, but as a matter of protecting the vulnerable — and in that context, I believe it's a form of child abuse. That’s not about controlling women; it’s about standing up for the dignity and worth of every human life, even the smallest.

 

[Woodznutz]

I am going to need some scripture here. Otherwise, you are talking out your ass.

Proverbs 24:27
Prepare thy work without, and make it fit for thyself in the field; and afterwards build thine house.

 

[Winston]

Proverbs 24:27
Prepare thy work without, and make it fit for thyself in the field; and afterwards build thine house.

I believe you are really reaching there.

"Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward."

Psalms 127:3

 

[Woodznutz]

I believe you are really reaching there.

What it means is be sure you have a secure career/income before you start a family (house=family).

 

[Zincwarrior]

I would split it differently.
1. Pro lifers who care about kids. These are the ones who's butts cash checks their mouths write. They support child education, meals, healthcare. Like friends the Wife knew they may adopt multiple kids. Aka Good People.

2. Pro birth psychos. They don't give a flying **** about the mother or kids, ONLY THE FORCED BIRTH. They are violently against medical care, education, meals and support. They think its the woman's fault she is pregnant and think she is a slut. The mom could be legally dead and they support forcing life support to birth the child, even as an orphan (true case).

 

[Winston]

What it means is be sure you have a secure career/income before you start a family (house=family).

That is not an unreasonable translation. However, I tend to believe like this guy,

Yeah. I think this is really talking literally about fields and literally about houses. I mean, this was happening in Israel, where they literally had fields, and then they’d have a house often in a village or in a walled village. And so you had to decide which one of those to put your energy towards first. I do not think this applies at all to getting married and having kids, or having all your ducks in a row, or all your income streams, or your house. I think a lot of that’s supposed to be done as a team. So it’s great, man. As soon as God reveals to you who that person is or you’ve made that decision, “I want to make a covenant with this woman,” man, I tell people… obviously in wisdom and in community and all of that… That’s kind of a bigger topic… But you don’t have to have ducks in a row, in my opinion, at all, because that’s a project you’re supposed to do together and with your children.

And I think that dealing with all the stress and complexity of dealing with fields and houses while you’re having kids and while you have a wife, is actually really healthy. This is where Solomon also says, “It’s good for men to bear the yoke while they are young.” And that’s the yoke, man, when you have all that stuff going on at once. But I think this is specifically talking about somebody… and I think this is a big temptation in our culture… who really tries to max out what they can actually take out as a mortgage on a house as an early start to their life.

Get Your Fields in Order, Then Build Your House - Family Teams

Jeff:We have the verse of the week for you today that we think relates to fatherhood, and that is in […]

familyteams.com

 

[Woodznutz]

That is not an unreasonable translation. However, I tend to believe like this guy,

Yeah. I think this is really talking literally about fields and literally about houses. I mean, this was happening in Israel, where they literally had fields, and then they’d have a house often in a village or in a walled village. And so you had to decide which one of those to put your energy towards first. I do not think this applies at all to getting married and having kids, or having all your ducks in a row, or all your income streams, or your house. I think a lot of that’s supposed to be done as a team. So it’s great, man. As soon as God reveals to you who that person is or you’ve made that decision, “I want to make a covenant with this woman,” man, I tell people… obviously in wisdom and in community and all of that… That’s kind of a bigger topic… But you don’t have to have ducks in a row, in my opinion, at all, because that’s a project you’re supposed to do together and with your children.

And I think that dealing with all the stress and complexity of dealing with fields and houses while you’re having kids and while you have a wife, is actually really healthy. This is where Solomon also says, “It’s good for men to bear the yoke while they are young.” And that’s the yoke, man, when you have all that stuff going on at once. But I think this is specifically talking about somebody… and I think this is a big temptation in our culture… who really tries to max out what they can actually take out as a mortgage on a house as an early start to their life.

Get Your Fields in Order, Then Build Your House - Family Teams

Jeff:We have the verse of the week for you today that we think relates to fatherhood, and that is in […]

familyteams.com

You have to apply the principle to today's world. A man's "field" used to be a literal field in an agrarian culture. Today one's vocational or professional 'field' is pretty varied. The point is to have a steady job with an income sufficient to begin a family.

 

[Anathema]

There’s a third group…

#3. Anti-Abortion: we don’t really care about the mother or the baby. We are simply in support of forcing every woman who gets pregnant to endure the nine months of consequences for doing so. Abstinence is a 100% guaranteed contraceptive. Consent to sex is consent tonparebthoood for both parties involved.