Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

[code1211]

Not at all, and you are acting out of unconscious reflex it appears. It seems to me in this thread we are on the same side.

Not if you believe in macroevolution.

Code, not you.

Ready to try your hand at presenting a falsifiable theory of intelligent design yet?

Are you asking me to present a falsifiable theory of something that I don't think exists?

 

[Dragon]

Not if you believe in macroevolution.

Code, not you.

Ready to try your hand at presenting a falsifiable theory of intelligent design yet?

Are you asking me to present a falsifiable theory of something that I don't think exists?

LOL of course not. Things got a bit confused there, didn't they?

You, not YWC, seem to be on the same side as I am in this discussion.

YWC, not you, I am asking to provide a falsifiable theory of intelligent design.

Hope that clarifies matters.

 

[code1211]

code, not you.

Ready to try your hand at presenting a falsifiable theory of intelligent design yet?

are you asking me to present a falsifiable theory of something that i don't think exists?

lol of course not. Things got a bit confused there, didn't they?

You, not ywc, seem to be on the same side as i am in this discussion.

Ywc, not you, i am asking to provide a falsifiable theory of intelligent design.

Hope that clarifies matters.

10-4.

Ironically enough, I am on this side of the Creationist/Evolution debate for exactly the same reasons that I am on the Doubter side of the AGW Debate.

If something is not proven, I see no reason to accept it and in fact, see a great many reasons not to.

 

[Dragon]

In fact, that business about the springs of water under the ocean provides a falsification of Genesis. The passage in question is Genesis 7 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened."

We can take the "windows in the sky" bit as a poetic expression meaning only that it rained a lot, but the reference seems clear that there was a source of water under the ocean, too. There is, however, no such thing: this is a reference to something in the Book of Genesis that is untrue.

Since the Book of Genesis contains an untruth, it cannot be regarded as authoritative, and we cannot assume that something is true merely because it appears therein.

As noted above, since this error is not part of the creation story, it does not invalidate the creation story directly, and it can still be true as far as this goes. However, we cannot assume it is true merely because it appears in the Bible.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You seem like a reasonable person, but your are applying matters of faith to matters of Science. It doesn't work.

Using your example of cooking, you speak of the ingredients and then conclude that using those ingredients, only one result or a slim range of results can occur. This is obviously false as all of Earth's creatures are made of the same stuff. The only differences are the combinations of the proteins in the DNA and the DNA in all creatures is also made of the same stuff.

You apparently have no idea what Evolution is and have somehow determined that accepting Evolution is rejecting your belief system. If that is the case, then your belief system is not adequate to cope with Creation. As such, either Creation or your belief system is not right.

The limitations you discuss are not applied by God two maintain order. What kind of an all powerful Entity that is all knowing needs to have a discipline of order that is understood by men? It is your belief system, unable to spot the order that has applied limitations to a system that you do not understand.

If you could feel the breath of God or see His plan, you would cease to see and feel all else.

Why do you pose as a solver of riddles trying to please Him with ideas that he would surely find laughable?

We are all living under a test. Do we go with mans way of life or God's way you are seeing mans system at this time. But let's not forget satan because behind the scenes this is his system.

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.

Does passing this test rely on being uninformed?

God judges through the heart and the scriptures say he will judge the ignorant as well. It all comes down to the heart condition for the ignorant but for the ones that knew of the truth and rejected it not looking good for them.

 

[Youwerecreated]

In fact, that business about the springs of water under the ocean provides a falsification of Genesis. The passage in question is Genesis 7 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened."

We can take the "windows in the sky" bit as a poetic expression meaning only that it rained a lot, but the reference seems clear that there was a source of water under the ocean, too. There is, however, no such thing: this is a reference to something in the Book of Genesis that is untrue.

Since the Book of Genesis contains an untruth, it cannot be regarded as authoritative, and we cannot assume that something is true merely because it appears therein.

As noted above, since this error is not part of the creation story, it does not invalidate the creation story directly, and it can still be true as far as this goes. However, we cannot assume it is true merely because it appears in the Bible.

What untruth ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

In fact, that business about the springs of water under the ocean provides a falsification of Genesis. The passage in question is Genesis 7 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened."

We can take the "windows in the sky" bit as a poetic expression meaning only that it rained a lot, but the reference seems clear that there was a source of water under the ocean, too. There is, however, no such thing: this is a reference to something in the Book of Genesis that is untrue.

Since the Book of Genesis contains an untruth, it cannot be regarded as authoritative, and we cannot assume that something is true merely because it appears therein.

As noted above, since this error is not part of the creation story, it does not invalidate the creation story directly, and it can still be true as far as this goes. However, we cannot assume it is true merely because it appears in the Bible.

There is enough falsifiable evidence from the bible to trust the writing's just ask archaeologist who use the bible to discover communities from the past.

 

[Dragon]

In fact, that business about the springs of water under the ocean provides a falsification of Genesis. The passage in question is Genesis 7 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened."

We can take the "windows in the sky" bit as a poetic expression meaning only that it rained a lot, but the reference seems clear that there was a source of water under the ocean, too. There is, however, no such thing: this is a reference to something in the Book of Genesis that is untrue.

Since the Book of Genesis contains an untruth, it cannot be regarded as authoritative, and we cannot assume that something is true merely because it appears therein.

As noted above, since this error is not part of the creation story, it does not invalidate the creation story directly, and it can still be true as far as this goes. However, we cannot assume it is true merely because it appears in the Bible.

What untruth ?

That there are springs of water under the ocean capable of accounting for a flood. There aren't.

This is part of a primitive concept of the ocean's water as deriving from some underground source. In reality, the ocean is simply where most of the water on the planet is, dropping into the less elevated parts of the planet's surface under its own weight. It has nothing to do with the ocean's water being supplied by an outside source. The belief that such an outside source exists is implicit in this passage of Genesis, and wrong.

 

[Dragon]

There is enough falsifiable evidence from the bible to trust the writing's just ask archaeologist who use the bible to discover communities from the past.

The claim about the Bible is that it is absolutely without error, being dictated by God. That is an extraordinary claim. It is not proven by any number of statements in the Bible that are correct. It is, in fact, completely disproved by even ONE statement that is incorrect. And there are many such statements.

This does not mean, of course, that nothing in the Bible can possibly be true, which would be almost as extraordinary a claim as saying it's without error.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You are quoting stories that were handed down from generation to generation for many years before being written down. They were explanations of the order of things that would make sense to a Stone Age Culture.

Stone age people knew there were springs at the bottom of the ocean ?

Stone age people knew we were made up of ingredients of the ground ?

Stone age people knew and understood the hydrologic system ?

Stone age people knew to quartine the sick ?

Stone age people knew they were to properly wash to prevent getting sick from unhealthy bacteria ?

Stone Age people were still people and had all of the talents and abilities that this implies. The answer to all of your questions is that if this explained things to a terrified population or was observed to help with a problem, then, yes, they "knew" these things.

I know nothing of the molecular characteristics of Tequila, but I know that it used to make Mrs. Code's clothes fall off and it it made me so sick once that I haven't ingested the stuff for 40 years.

My understanding of Tequila is on the level of a Stone Age person's understanding of most things. Nothing magic or mystical about it.

Out of curiosity, how are "the springs at the bottom of the ocean" described in the Old Testemant?

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

 

[Dragon]

Stone age people knew there were springs at the bottom of the ocean ?

Stone age people knew we were made up of ingredients of the ground ?

Stone age people knew and understood the hydrologic system ?

Stone age people knew to quartine the sick ?

Stone age people knew they were to properly wash to prevent getting sick from unhealthy bacteria ?

Stone Age people were still people and had all of the talents and abilities that this implies. The answer to all of your questions is that if this explained things to a terrified population or was observed to help with a problem, then, yes, they "knew" these things.

I know nothing of the molecular characteristics of Tequila, but I know that it used to make Mrs. Code's clothes fall off and it it made me so sick once that I haven't ingested the stuff for 40 years.

My understanding of Tequila is on the level of a Stone Age person's understanding of most things. Nothing magic or mystical about it.

Out of curiosity, how are "the springs at the bottom of the ocean" described in the Old Testemant?

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

There are no springs of the sea int he secret places of the deep. This passage in Job repeats the same error as in 7 Genesis.

 

[Youwerecreated]

In fact, that business about the springs of water under the ocean provides a falsification of Genesis. The passage in question is Genesis 7 "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day—on that day all the springs of the deep sea erupted, and the windows in the skies opened."

We can take the "windows in the sky" bit as a poetic expression meaning only that it rained a lot, but the reference seems clear that there was a source of water under the ocean, too. There is, however, no such thing: this is a reference to something in the Book of Genesis that is untrue.

Since the Book of Genesis contains an untruth, it cannot be regarded as authoritative, and we cannot assume that something is true merely because it appears therein.

As noted above, since this error is not part of the creation story, it does not invalidate the creation story directly, and it can still be true as far as this goes. However, we cannot assume it is true merely because it appears in the Bible.

What untruth ?

That there are springs of water under the ocean capable of accounting for a flood. There aren't.

This is part of a primitive concept of the ocean's water as deriving from some underground source. In reality, the ocean is simply where most of the water on the planet is, dropping into the less elevated parts of the planet's surface under its own weight. It has nothing to do with the ocean's water being supplied by an outside source. The belief that such an outside source exists is implicit in this passage of Genesis, and wrong.

In 1977, scientists discovered hot springs at a depth of 2.5 km, on the Galapagos Rift (spreading ridge) off the coast of Ecuador. This exciting discovery was not really a surprise. Since the early 1970s, scientists had predicted that hot springs (geothermal vents) should be found at the active spreading centers along the mid-oceanic ridges, where magma, at temperatures over 1,000 °C, presumably was being erupted to form new oceanic crust. More exciting, because it was totally unexpected, was the discovery of abundant and unusual sea life -- giant tube worms, huge clams, and mussels -- that thrived around the hot springs.

Exploring the deep ocean floor [This Dynamic Earth, USGS]

Although scientists have examined only a small portion of ocean floor, seafloor springs appear to be common along the 40,000-mile Mid-Oceanic Ridge system. Dr. John M. Edmond of M.I.T. suggests that water circulation through oceanic springs is a major geologic process; he estimates that 40 cubic miles of water flow out of earth's oceanic springs each year. If this is so, then mineralization must be an important process on the sea floor, and study of ocean springs may promote understanding and location of ore deposits. Ocean springs are also a vast, untapped source of geothermal energy, which, unfortunately, is located far from the major population and energy demand areas.

The discovery of ocean springs ranks as one of the foremost scientific accomplishments of the last ten years. Let us remember, however, that their existence was known thousands of years ago. Surely, God spoke through men by means of His Holy Spirit.

Springs of the Ocean

 

[Youwerecreated]

Stone Age people were still people and had all of the talents and abilities that this implies. The answer to all of your questions is that if this explained things to a terrified population or was observed to help with a problem, then, yes, they "knew" these things.

I know nothing of the molecular characteristics of Tequila, but I know that it used to make Mrs. Code's clothes fall off and it it made me so sick once that I haven't ingested the stuff for 40 years.

My understanding of Tequila is on the level of a Stone Age person's understanding of most things. Nothing magic or mystical about it.

Out of curiosity, how are "the springs at the bottom of the ocean" described in the Old Testemant?

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

There are no springs of the sea int he secret places of the deep. This passage in Job repeats the same error as in 7 Genesis.

Wrong at the time of the writing of the scriptures springs in the ocean were not known.

You do not know how much water was contained within the earth and still is.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Stone Age people were still people and had all of the talents and abilities that this implies. The answer to all of your questions is that if this explained things to a terrified population or was observed to help with a problem, then, yes, they "knew" these things.

I know nothing of the molecular characteristics of Tequila, but I know that it used to make Mrs. Code's clothes fall off and it it made me so sick once that I haven't ingested the stuff for 40 years.

My understanding of Tequila is on the level of a Stone Age person's understanding of most things. Nothing magic or mystical about it.

Out of curiosity, how are "the springs at the bottom of the ocean" described in the Old Testemant?

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

There are no springs of the sea int he secret places of the deep. This passage in Job repeats the same error as in 7 Genesis.

Everyone one of your false claims get refuted.

 

[Dragon]

Tiny hot springs under the ocean are not what Genesis or Job was referring to. They were referencing something that could be the source of the water in the ocean, and might erupt causing a flood. Those do not exist.

 

[Dragon]

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

There are no springs of the sea int he secret places of the deep. This passage in Job repeats the same error as in 7 Genesis.

Wrong at the time of the writing of the scriptures springs in the ocean were not known.

God knew. But the books are not referring to small hot springs under the sea. They were referring to something else that does not exist.

You do not know how much water was contained within the earth and still is.

Yes, I do. Or rather, that quantity is known and I can look it up.

As I said, though, in order for the Bible to be falsifiable, you have to agree to abide by evidence outside it. If you are simply going to refuse to recognize the reality of that evidence, then the book is NOT falsifiable, for the simple reason that you are not allowing it to be. That appears to be the case, which means that you are not presenting a scientific concept at all, and everything you say may be dismissed.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Tiny hot springs under the ocean are not what Genesis or Job was referring to. They were referencing something that could be the source of the water in the ocean, and might erupt causing a flood. Those do not exist.

Tiny

"Although scientists have examined only a small portion of ocean floor, seafloor springs appear to be common along the 40,000-mile Mid-Oceanic Ridge system. Dr. John M. Edmond of M.I.T. suggests that water circulation through oceanic springs is a major geologic process; he estimates that 40 cubic miles of water flow out of earth's oceanic springs each year"

The ones they know of.

 

[Dragon]

Nothing there that could account for the water in the ocean, or that could increase the volume of that water causing a flood. That is what Genesis was referring to. It does not exist.

 

[code1211]

Stone age people knew there were springs at the bottom of the ocean ?

Stone age people knew we were made up of ingredients of the ground ?

Stone age people knew and understood the hydrologic system ?

Stone age people knew to quartine the sick ?

Stone age people knew they were to properly wash to prevent getting sick from unhealthy bacteria ?

Stone Age people were still people and had all of the talents and abilities that this implies. The answer to all of your questions is that if this explained things to a terrified population or was observed to help with a problem, then, yes, they "knew" these things.

I know nothing of the molecular characteristics of Tequila, but I know that it used to make Mrs. Code's clothes fall off and it it made me so sick once that I haven't ingested the stuff for 40 years.

My understanding of Tequila is on the level of a Stone Age person's understanding of most things. Nothing magic or mystical about it.

Out of curiosity, how are "the springs at the bottom of the ocean" described in the Old Testemant?

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

The reason I asked is that there are many "Springs" of the deep that are volcanic in nature and are the sites of various life forms including tube worms and deep water shrimp.

Water springs in the ocean are not as notable to my knowledge which is very limited in this.

"Walking in the secret places of the deep"? Was somebody literally walking underwater in this passage?

 

[code1211]

Job 38:16 Have you come into the springs of the sea, walking in the secret places of the deep?

There are no springs of the sea int he secret places of the deep. This passage in Job repeats the same error as in 7 Genesis.

Wrong at the time of the writing of the scriptures springs in the ocean were not known.

You do not know how much water was contained within the earth and still is.

Liquid water coming from the sea vents is unlikely. The cocktail of gases that comes from the vents under the ocean is pretty toxic by our standards.