Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

[Parsifal]

They are from the same family and they are a kind,a group.

They are different species. Using Biblical terminology ("kind") won't work in an evolution discussion.

Antievolutionists

Do you acknowledge that there is no scientific evidence for creationism?

Yes? No?

Answer the question please.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I don't have a side.

And unless you can quote me where i said the universe was finite then you again have no leg upon which to stand.

And no one knows with any degree of certainty if the big bang actually happened. For now it is just the most accepted working theory and has not been proven to be absolutely true.

herein lies the problem. We don't know where when or how the universe began. We struggle with our limited senses to understand our world and the universe but as of yet there are still more questions than answers.

We might be physically incapable of finding the answer just as a dog is physically incapable of speech or performing mathematical calculations. We might not have the sensory or intellectual capability to understand origin.

But you have said that the universe is infinite and therefore odds that apply to things in our solar system are meaningless. I am still hoping for your rationale for why the universe is infinite given that science places an age or origin for everything that we can determine that exists in it.

Ever hear of black holes and how they suck up everything around them. The universe is a model of the remnants of an exploding shell.....just magnified too numerous to imagine. It has taken billions of years to advance to where we are and it will take more billions of years to finally cease to exist....but it will happen.

Bible thumpers talk like they know what will happen and now it's my turn.

You better do a little more research on this issue there is much disagreement concerning black holes.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Is it possible that the conditions that exist inside cells to allow proteins to form could occur in nature under any circumstance at all.

No.

This from an open mind?

I have seen nothing to believe it is possible.

Did you see the quote from DR. Crick concerning the origins of life this is an evolutionist. He is also one who worked on prebiotic evolution and pleads ignorance on the origins quetion.

 

[Youwerecreated]

There are allot of things that can't happen until they do.

The fact is that life exists and that proves that life exists. It proves nothing else.

So the firrst cell had to be formed.

What is essential within a cell to form the elements needed to create a protein? Could these be created in a laboratory? If they can't, is this a reflection of the limitations of science or proof of a Creator?

Both and no they can't do it in the lab,miller and urey attempted it and only produced left and right handed amino acids and a few other meaningless molecules.

 

[Youwerecreated]

They are from the same family and they are a kind,a group.

They are different species. Using Biblical terminology ("kind") won't work in an evolution discussion.

Antievolutionists

Do you acknowledge that there is no scientific evidence for creationism?

Yes? No?

Answer the question please.

I say there is just as much evidence of creation as there is for macro-evolution. Because you call them different species does not mean they do not belong in the family.

You base your views off your presuppositions not the scientific evidence.

 

[Parsifal]

I say there is just as much evidence of creation as there is for macro-evolution.

There is a whole lot of evidence for what you call 'macro-evolution'. There are mountains of evidence for it. You don't have a clue about this stuff.

Because you call them different species does not mean they do not belong in the family.

I call them different species because we're discussing Biology. You don't know what a family is do you?

Do you think that cats and lions have common ancestors?

Do you think that land snails (pulmonates) evolved from water snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

Do you think that sea slugs evolved from snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

You base your views off your presuppositions not the scientific evidence.

I don't. Why are you writing that sort of bullshit about me?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I say there is just as much evidence of creation as there is for macro-evolution.

There is a whole lot of evidence for what you call 'macro-evolution'. There are mountains of evidence for it. You don't have a clue about this stuff.

Because you call them different species does not mean they do not belong in the family.

I call them different species because we're discussing Biology. You don't know what a family is do you?

Do you think that cats and lions have common ancestors?

Do you think that land snails (pulmonates) evolved from water snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

Do you think that sea slugs evolved from snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

You base your views off your presuppositions not the scientific evidence.

I don't. Why are you writing that sort of bullshit about me?

You really don't have anything but rhetoric do you. If things are constantly evolving like people like yourself claim ,let me introduce you to living fossils.



http://www.living-fossils.com/living_fossils_1_1.php



Living-Fossils.com

Where is this evolution you claim ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I say there is just as much evidence of creation as there is for macro-evolution.

There is a whole lot of evidence for what you call 'macro-evolution'. There are mountains of evidence for it. You don't have a clue about this stuff.

Because you call them different species does not mean they do not belong in the family.

I call them different species because we're discussing Biology. You don't know what a family is do you?

Do you think that cats and lions have common ancestors?

Do you think that land snails (pulmonates) evolved from water snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

Do you think that sea slugs evolved from snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

You base your views off your presuppositions not the scientific evidence.

I don't. Why are you writing that sort of bullshit about me?

What is the mechanism for evolution ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Night, I will respond to your response tomorrow.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Recent measurements made by NASA's WMAP spacecraft have shown that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, plus or minus about 130,000 years. They were able to do this by making detailed observations of the fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background and using that information in Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to 'run the clock backwards to time equal zero'. But I believe the whole goddam thing was created by the magic man in the sky on a Tuesday morning about 6000 years ago. Then....a six mile deep flood made it necessary for a few people and every species of life on the planet to board one small vessel and co exist for six months while the water magically evaporated. Damn strange that the oceans on the planet have managed to maintain approximately the same depth ever since.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Recent measurements made by NASA's WMAP spacecraft have shown that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, plus or minus about 130,000 years. They were able to do this by making detailed observations of the fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background and using that information in Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to 'run the clock backwards to time equal zero'. But I believe the whole goddam thing was created by the magic man in the sky on a Tuesday morning about 6000 years ago. Then....a six mile deep flood made it necessary for a few people and every species of life on the planet to board one small vessel and co exist for six months while the water magically evaporated. Damn strange that the oceans on the planet have managed to maintain approximately the same depth ever since.

And could have been as long as 12,000 years.

Do black holes really exist? - space - 18 June 2007 - New Scientist

What is a black hole, really?

Is There Really a Super Massive Black Hole at the Center of the Galaxy? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

[Cammmpbell]

Recent measurements made by NASA's WMAP spacecraft have shown that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, plus or minus about 130,000 years. They were able to do this by making detailed observations of the fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background and using that information in Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to 'run the clock backwards to time equal zero'. But I believe the whole goddam thing was created by the magic man in the sky on a Tuesday morning about 6000 years ago. Then....a six mile deep flood made it necessary for a few people and every species of life on the planet to board one small vessel and co exist for six months while the water magically evaporated. Damn strange that the oceans on the planet have managed to maintain approximately the same depth ever since.

And could have been as long as 12,000 years.

Do black holes really exist? - space - 18 June 2007 - New Scientist

What is a black hole, really?

Is There Really a Super Massive Black Hole at the Center of the Galaxy? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

LMAO!!!!!

Next thing you know they'll go to work on the E=MC2 thing even though Fermi and Einstein came up with mathmatical formulas which led to nuclear weapons which were tested effectively in 1945. If you don't believe they were tested in 1945 ask the Japanese.....oh, I forgot about a quarter million of them wouldn't have been around to ask....even back then.

Anybody who argues against the proven knowledge of modern science goes into it with bias, prejudice and brainwashed ideas. PERIOD!!

 

[Youwerecreated]

Recent measurements made by NASA's WMAP spacecraft have shown that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, plus or minus about 130,000 years. They were able to do this by making detailed observations of the fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background and using that information in Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to 'run the clock backwards to time equal zero'. But I believe the whole goddam thing was created by the magic man in the sky on a Tuesday morning about 6000 years ago. Then....a six mile deep flood made it necessary for a few people and every species of life on the planet to board one small vessel and co exist for six months while the water magically evaporated. Damn strange that the oceans on the planet have managed to maintain approximately the same depth ever since.

And could have been as long as 12,000 years.

Do black holes really exist? - space - 18 June 2007 - New Scientist

What is a black hole, really?

Is There Really a Super Massive Black Hole at the Center of the Galaxy? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

LMAO!!!!!

Next thing you know they'll go to work on the E=MC2 thing even though Fermi and Einstein came up with mathmatical formulas which led to nuclear weapons which were tested effectively in 1945. If you don't believe they were tested in 1945 ask the Japanese.....oh, I forgot about a quarter million of them wouldn't have been around to ask....even back then.

Anybody who argues against the proven knowledge of modern science goes into it with bias, prejudice and brainwashed ideas. PERIOD!!

Don't you get it scientific theories are not fact and are always being challenged and when correction is needed they revise the text books unless the evidence blows the whole theory out of the water. You have no clue of what you are talking about.

 

[Cammmpbell]

And could have been as long as 12,000 years.

Do black holes really exist? - space - 18 June 2007 - New Scientist

What is a black hole, really?

Is There Really a Super Massive Black Hole at the Center of the Galaxy? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

LMAO!!!!!

Next thing you know they'll go to work on the E=MC2 thing even though Fermi and Einstein came up with mathmatical formulas which led to nuclear weapons which were tested effectively in 1945. If you don't believe they were tested in 1945 ask the Japanese.....oh, I forgot about a quarter million of them wouldn't have been around to ask....even back then.

Anybody who argues against the proven knowledge of modern science goes into it with bias, prejudice and brainwashed ideas. PERIOD!!

Don't you get it scientific theories are not fact and are always being challenged and when correction is needed they revise the text books unless the evidence blows the whole theory out of the water. You have no clue of what you are talking about.

You're wrong....the stupid ideas which came from the developing imagination of superstitious primitives are wrong and only the naive or brainwashed believe otherwise. How are you on the fable told by American Indians about the Thunderbird..................I'm sure a whole flock of them flew over every time it thundered. The fable was so strong that even after white people showed up here the Indians continued to build totem poles with the TBird at the top for hundreds of years. Then after a few hundred years the Ford motor company built thousands of them.

 

[Youwerecreated]

LMAO!!!!!

Next thing you know they'll go to work on the E=MC2 thing even though Fermi and Einstein came up with mathmatical formulas which led to nuclear weapons which were tested effectively in 1945. If you don't believe they were tested in 1945 ask the Japanese.....oh, I forgot about a quarter million of them wouldn't have been around to ask....even back then.

Anybody who argues against the proven knowledge of modern science goes into it with bias, prejudice and brainwashed ideas. PERIOD!!

Don't you get it scientific theories are not fact and are always being challenged and when correction is needed they revise the text books unless the evidence blows the whole theory out of the water. You have no clue of what you are talking about.

You're wrong....the stupid ideas which came from the developing imagination of superstitious primitives are wrong and only the naive or brainwashed believe otherwise. How are you on the fable told by American Indians about the Thunderbird..................I'm sure a whole flock of them flew over every time it thundered. The fable was so strong that even after white people showed up here the Indians continued to build totem poles with the TBird at the top for hundreds of years. Then after a few hundred years the Ford motor company built thousands of them.

Don't waste my time with your religous views.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Don't you get it scientific theories are not fact and are always being challenged and when correction is needed they revise the text books unless the evidence blows the whole theory out of the water. You have no clue of what you are talking about.

You're wrong....the stupid ideas which came from the developing imagination of superstitious primitives are wrong and only the naive or brainwashed believe otherwise. How are you on the fable told by American Indians about the Thunderbird..................I'm sure a whole flock of them flew over every time it thundered. The fable was so strong that even after white people showed up here the Indians continued to build totem poles with the TBird at the top for hundreds of years. Then after a few hundred years the Ford motor company built thousands of them.

Don't waste my time with your religous views.

Wasting your time while you're posting on a goddam Internet board...LMAO! You're probably wasting your employer's time. At least I've been retired for 19 years and I'm only wasting my own.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You're wrong....the stupid ideas which came from the developing imagination of superstitious primitives are wrong and only the naive or brainwashed believe otherwise. How are you on the fable told by American Indians about the Thunderbird..................I'm sure a whole flock of them flew over every time it thundered. The fable was so strong that even after white people showed up here the Indians continued to build totem poles with the TBird at the top for hundreds of years. Then after a few hundred years the Ford motor company built thousands of them.

Don't waste my time with your religous views.

Wasting your time while you're posting on a goddam Internet board...LMAO! You're probably wasting your employer's time. At least I've been retired for 19 years and I'm only wasting my own.

Sorry but I own my own business and home most of the time except when I am out doing something I enjoy.

 

[code1211]

I teach concepts of evolution right alongside concepts of ID with PhD scientists sitting in my class who have no problem with that so far. So far nobody, and I mean nobody, has come with any any logical rationale for why ID is not both rational and plausible or that it is in any way in conflict with the Theory of Evolution.

Perhaps you are the one who will finally show us the error in that.

Intelligent design demands proof that there is a designer.

Please produce that proof.

Fiction demands a willing suspension of disbelief. If your theory demands the same thing, this should define what you are putting forth.

Sure. Just as you prove that nothing was created from nothing. Or if it is not true that nothing was created from nothing, please prove that. Or if you think there was stuff that existed in the universe prior to the big bang, please prove that.

Or if you saw your shadow this morning, would you please prove that you observed your shadow this morning?

Or perhaps we could agree that there are things that are observable, or that are reasonable to conclude, that do not require ability to prove them in order to rationally know that they exist.

And anyway, if we go with Spinoza's 'god', the same adopted by Einstein, the intelligence that both observed did not preclude a being but rather an intelligence that exists within the whole.

I failed to find the proof in what you said.

 

[code1211]

No.

This from an open mind?

I have seen nothing to believe it is possible.

Did you see the quote from DR. Crick concerning the origins of life this is an evolutionist. He is also one who worked on prebiotic evolution and pleads ignorance on the origins quetion.

Protien created outside the cell: Voila!



A new wrinkle in evolution -- man-made proteins





IMAGE: The three-dimensional structure (ribbon diagram) of protein DX as a crystallogrpahic dimer. The zinc metal ion is shown in orange and the chloride anion at the dimer interface in red,...
Click here for more information.

A new wrinkle in evolution -- man-made proteins

Nature, through the trial and error of evolution, has discovered a vast diversity of life from what can only presumed to have been a primordial pool of building blocks. Inspired by this success, a new Biodesign Institute research team, led by John Chaput, is now trying to mimic the process of Darwinian evolution in the laboratory by evolving new proteins from scratch. Using new tricks of molecular biology, Chaput and co-workers have evolved several new proteins in a fraction of the 3 billion years it took nature.

Their most recent results, published in the May 23rd edition of the journal PLoS ONE, have led to some surprisingly new lessons on how to optimize proteins which have never existed in nature before, in a process they call ‘synthetic evolution.’

"The goal of our research is to understand certain fundamental questions regarding the origin and evolution of proteins," said Chaput, a researcher in the institute’s Center for BioOptical Nanotechnology and assistant professor in Arizona State University’s department of chemistry and biochemistry. "Would proteins that we evolve in the lab look like proteins we see today in nature or do they look totally different from the set of proteins nature ultimately chose" By gaining a better understanding of these questions, we hope to one day create new tailor-made catalysts that can be used as therapeutics in molecular medicine or biocatalysts in biotechnology."

 

[code1211]

I say there is just as much evidence of creation as there is for macro-evolution.

There is a whole lot of evidence for what you call 'macro-evolution'. There are mountains of evidence for it. You don't have a clue about this stuff.



I call them different species because we're discussing Biology. You don't know what a family is do you?

Do you think that cats and lions have common ancestors?

Do you think that land snails (pulmonates) evolved from water snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

Do you think that sea slugs evolved from snails? (don't kid yourself.....That's what you call "macro-evolution")

You base your views off your presuppositions not the scientific evidence.

I don't. Why are you writing that sort of bullshit about me?

What is the mechanism for evolution ?

The mechanism is in the interaction of the individuals within species. We, as race of humans are taller and more numerous than we were even 200 years ago.

That is evolution. If you are white and your children are white, that is evolution. Sameness, as well as difference is evolution. It is the path on which a species changes, but the species knows not the path nor does it know the direction or the destination.

We, as humans exist within societies and those societies swell as our ancestors contribute to evolution. The crippling illness of today was the fatal illness of yesterday. Conversely, the fatal illness of today may have been a dormant curiosity in the past.

Life is change and change is what evolution is.