Poster Child for Legalization? Chattanooga Shooter had multiple addictions

[Moonglow]

Is the OP seriously suggesting this was caused by marijuana? I mean, seriously?

No, I'm saying how can anyone promote marijuana
when it compounds the problems people already have.

How can you argue it is never dangerous enough to be fatal. Just because it isn't a direct or sole cause, doesn't mean it isn't a major contributing factor in making problems worse or escalate to irreversible damage.

Simply because humans have to learn to control themselves..If we worked on outlawing things that kill, harm or hurt humans, then love, or inter-active personal relationships causes some humans to lose their lives, their will to live and their ability to control emotions......

 

[Moonglow]

Islam is the root cause of this tragedy.

I would say the root cause is Ill Will and Unforgiveness.
The Christians Muslims and Jews who practice forgiveness get along great despite any cultural or religious differences they have.

People who don't forgive run the risk of this escalating into
ill will, bullying, retribution, revenge killing, all kinds of mental and social ills.

If you look at all cases of crimes, abuses, mental illness etc.
you will see where the person 'got stuck' and couldn't forgive some conflict or issue
and then projected that forward, even tying more negative emotions to it until it snowballed.

The key to undoing that negative cycle
is to agree to receive forgiveness and healing and let go, accept things without attaching
negative emotions and expectations, and this quits the negative projection games you'll find behind all mental illness, social ills and disorders, crimes, abuses and violations against people, property or principles. it all starts with not forgiving something in the past so it projects forward and repeats.

The whole point of Christ Jesus represents a break in that vicious cycle
where people agree to seek corrections and healing in the spirit of truth and justice to bring peace.
And agree to swear off from the path of destruction, hate and war.

With a last name like yours, I know you've had Thai stick...

I don't know what you are referring to, but my parents both are of Vietnamese Buddhist backgrounds.
Not Thai.

By your name and Avatar, perhaps you are a closet Moonie gone Rogue.
You have left the cult, and like to mess with other people
by dropping your pants and posting brain farts for their reading pleasure.

You don't have to be from Thailand to know or to have had Thai-stick...I bricked, blocked rocked and tiled an entire edition for the Nyguen family in the later 1990's-2008 in Gentry Arkansas..

 

[emilynghiem]

Is the OP seriously suggesting this was caused by marijuana? I mean, seriously?

No, I'm saying how can anyone promote marijuana
when it compounds the problems people already have.

How can you argue it is never dangerous enough to be fatal. Just because it isn't a direct or sole cause, doesn't mean it isn't a major contributing factor in making problems worse or escalate to irreversible damage.

I don't promote marijuana; I promote freedom. How about you?

As long as you promote responsibility for that freedom, and not dumping the consequences on others
who didn't agree to pay the tab.

If all the people who want marijuana legalized agree to pay for all the health care costs and benefits
for that crowd who wants that, then that is taking responsibility for one's own policy decisions.

I have no problem with that.

But I have always had a problem with people smoking pot, not working or wanting to work,
being in denial that their health or minds have deteriorated, and then expect me to work harder
to pay for them when they can't get their act together.

I have tried to help friends, and when their denial and addiction costs them and I have to bail them out,
that gets tiring and abusive.

So if you are going to legalize marijuana, at the same time as nationalizing health care and making everyone pay for insurance or federal coverage for everyone,
I would argue to offer Equal Choice to mandate Spiritual Healing
which has not only healed the same diseases that people take medical marijuana to treat,
but it heals the actual ADDICTION.

The people I know who go through Spiritual Healing no longer have any desire
to continue useage or addiction to alcohol, pot or other drugs. They want to be free and clear and stay that way.

Spiritual healing (which is free, natural safe and without any side effects or risks of addiction that pot has)
would cut more costs of crime, disease, addiction, abuse.

Smoking Marijuana has not cured anyone of drug addiction.

So why not offer better choices.

I have NO problem with people having free choice, but it must be FULLY INFORMED.

If you run around claiming smoking marijuana poses no risk, that's isn't fair and is not a fully informed choice.

If you don't explain to people that spiritual healing can end addiction
and can cure more diseases than marijuana can,
then that is biasing someone's choices by WITHHOLDING information.

So if you are really for freedom, you'd be for full freedom of information to make fully informed choices.

I have no problem with that, and hope people agree to pay for the consequences
of their choices and information they go with.

I don't think it is fair to withhold information, and then expect other people to pay the tab for decisions that cost people their health. Especially when spiritual healing is free and could have solved problems and saved resources. I'd rather pay for research and development of that to help more people than marijuana does..

 

[emilynghiem]

Is the OP seriously suggesting this was caused by marijuana? I mean, seriously?

No, I'm saying how can anyone promote marijuana
when it compounds the problems people already have.

How can you argue it is never dangerous enough to be fatal. Just because it isn't a direct or sole cause, doesn't mean it isn't a major contributing factor in making problems worse or escalate to irreversible damage.

Simply because humans have to learn to control themselves..If we worked on outlawing things that kill, harm or hurt humans, then love, or inter-active personal relationships causes some humans to lose their lives, their will to live and their ability to control emotions......

Hi Moonglow it's not just a matter of outlawing things
Who is taking responsibility for the consequences.

If for example, you make it where euthanasia or active killing is legal,
then what happens if people abuse this law to commit murder, to kill someone where it WASN'T their
consent but was covered up and forged and faked. Who pays for that consequence if you legalize euthanasia?
Who is going to pay the cost of extra policing to make sure each decision is legally licensed or monitored
medically where there is no criminal fraud, no forging of signatures to kill someone for money etc.

So there is more to laws than just yes or no, legal or illegal.

Who pays the tab for when drugs are illegal?
Who pays the tab for when drugs are legal?

Both sides would have to agree to pay for their side of the tab
if this is going to be fully Constitutional and not impose ONE belief (and its costs and consequences)
on people of the opposing belief.

Same with abortion, the death penalty, gay marriage, immigration, health care.

If people don't agree on the same political BELIEFS, how do we separate
these like political religions, where people pay for their own policies and don't impose
their beliefs on others who don't believe the same things.

 

[Moonglow]

Is the OP seriously suggesting this was caused by marijuana? I mean, seriously?

No, I'm saying how can anyone promote marijuana
when it compounds the problems people already have.

How can you argue it is never dangerous enough to be fatal. Just because it isn't a direct or sole cause, doesn't mean it isn't a major contributing factor in making problems worse or escalate to irreversible damage.

Simply because humans have to learn to control themselves..If we worked on outlawing things that kill, harm or hurt humans, then love, or inter-active personal relationships causes some humans to lose their lives, their will to live and their ability to control emotions......

Hi Moonglow it's not just a matter of outlawing things
Who is taking responsibility for the consequences.

If for example, you make it where euthanasia or active killing is legal,
then what happens if people abuse this law to commit murder, to kill someone where it WASN'T their
consent but was covered up and forged and faked. Who pays for that consequence if you legalize euthanasia?
Who is going to pay the cost of extra policing to make sure each decision is legally licensed or monitored
medically where there is no criminal fraud, no forging of signatures to kill someone for money etc.

So there is more to laws than just yes or no, legal or illegal.

Who pays the tab for when drugs are illegal?
Who pays the tab for when drugs are legal?

Both sides would have to agree to pay for their side of the tab
if this is going to be fully Constitutional and not impose ONE belief (and its costs and consequences)
on people of the opposing belief.

Same with abortion, the death penalty, gay marriage, immigration, health care.

If people don't agree on the same political BELIEFS, how do we separate
these like political religions, where people pay for their own policies and don't impose
their beliefs on others who don't believe the same things.

With humans, it's always something that puts drama in the system....

 

[emilynghiem]

What religion was Dylann Roof ? Why did he kill?

Dear Moonglow he also has forgiveness issues causing either a mix of
mental/criminal illness or political/social dysfunction.

If you heal the root cause of the unforgiveness, which includes racial projection of ill will,
then you can resolve all the other factors that contributed to his actions and consequences.

The way to tell if he is truly healed, he would acknowledge the wrongs and grave injury he
caused, would feel genuine grief and repentance, and would seek the opportunity and help
to make right where he did wrong.

example: David Berkowitz has been healed of the occult-influenced obsessions he had
that drove his mindset for killing multiple victims. After being healed of this sick mentality,
he was a changed man, realized that life is a gift and he is called to share what he learned
from his murderous past, and try to help prevent crime and any more suffering to victims that can be
stopped by intervening and stopping this kind of sickness BEFORE anyone causes harm, damage or death.

That is how to tell if someone is healed. They may even agree to stay in prison to help there,
and do not want to be released in public if that scares people. They want to use their lives to help others.

There are other ex-gang members who have a lifechanging experience,
were healed of their past sick ways, became like new people and do outreach to help others instead.

Whatever you call that sickness
mental or criminal, spiritual or generational, it can be removed from someone's
spiritual space so their mind has a chance to return to normal.

The way I tell if someone is truly healed is how they talk about conflicts
in the past; if they are truly forgiving they don't blame, say or project anything negative.
they become humble and gentle and only want to help others, they are sincere in this.

You cannot fake true forgiveness.

If you truly receive forgiveness and healing for what you have done or carry from your past,
it changes how you act or speak and you don't hold on to anything negative.

This Dylann Roof guy was the opposite, and held onto deep rooted negative resentments.
You can see in his words the kind of projection he had going on. All that would need to
be uprooted, healed and removed from his being in order to uncover the real person and purpose.

BTW one of my friends who does spiritual counseling and coaching as a criminal justice
lawyer would call it FEAR. or FEAR Stress and Anxiety as the root of all such behavior.

So Roof's FEAR that Africans were taking over the country and world and needed to be segregated, drove his obsession. My friend might call it acting on FEAR instead of Love and faith. I call it unforgiveness, and also see it called "scarcity mentality" instead of abundance mentality (again doing things out of Fear and Ill Will instead of Love and Good will).

 

[Pogo]

Or, it's a cover up by the family so no one says they raised a terrorist.

He's already being called a troubled teen. He's 24 years old. No teen about it.

Nor does the word 'teen' appear anywhere in the article. Or in this thread.

Are you on drugs?

I've been listening to him called a troubled teen all day. The world does not begin and end with this message board. Except for you.

Ah, so it's not the article or the OP, it's the voices in your head. Who are apparently math-challenged.
Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I'm skeptical of the idea of a devout Muslim abusing drugs while successfully attaining an engineering degree.

 

[MikeK]

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive

True. There is no authoritative medical evidence that marijuana is addictive or is harmful.

* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality.

True. Marijuana does not cause paranoia. If one is innately paranoid using marijuana, or any other mood-altering substance, such as beverage alcohol, is likely to engender symptoms.

* nobody ever died from using marijuana.

Quite true. There is no record in the annals of medical science of marijuana causing death or illness.

You obviously have chosen to believe all the negative Reefer Madness nonsense put forth about marijuana. But unless you simply prefer to remain misinformed you can do yourself a favor by reading, Marijuana, The Forbidden Medicine, by Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, PhD., Professor of Psychiatric Medicine, Harvard Medical School.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive

True. There is no authoritative medical evidence that marijuana is addictive or is harmful.

* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality.

True. Marijuana does not cause paranoia. If one is innately paranoid using marijuana, or any other mood-altering substance, such as beverage alcohol, is likely to engender symptoms.

* nobody ever died from using marijuana.

Quite true. There is no record in the annals of medical science of marijuana causing death or illness.

You obviously have chosen to believe all the negative Reefer Madness nonsense put forth about marijuana. But unless you simply prefer to remain misinformed you can do yourself a favor by reading, Marijuana, The Forbidden Medicine, by Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, PhD., Professor of Psychiatric Medicine, Harvard Medical School.

You are dangerously misguided.
THC can cause permanent anxiety and depression, especially in young, developing brains.

 

[MikeK]

I'm skeptical of the idea of a devout Muslim abusing drugs while successfully attaining an engineering degree.

That is a sensible conclusion.

Because marijuana is an exceptionally potent tranquilizer, which is known to effectively suppress anger and violent impulses, it is likely this fellow was troubled by overwhelming episodes of pathological rage and used marijuana to stabilize those moods. But now the Reefer Madness crowd will attempt to assert that marijuana had the opposite effect, causing him to do what he did.

Actually it is quite surprising to me that someone who supposedly used a lot of marijuana would do such a thing. It simply doesn't follow. If it's true that he was a heavy user it is likely that he was a severely schizophrenic paranoiac who for one reason or other had stopped using this potent tranquilizer and succumbed to his violent impulses.

 

[MikeK]

[You are dangerously misguided.
THC can cause permanent anxiety and depression, especially in young, developing brains.

While it is true that excessive use of marijuana (along with any other mind-altering substance) can damage the developing brain, the brain is considered fully developed by age twenty-one and Abdulazeez was twenty-four.

Keep in mind there are a great many stereotypical "pot-heads," i.e., those who smoke it heavily from morning to night, whose outstanding characteristic is passive inactivity. If this fellow was using an amphetamine in addition to marijuana, which he reportedly was, the amphetamine would vastly overwhelm the tranquilizing effect of the THC and is quite capable of inciting the kind of behavior he manifested.

Also keep in mind how many Americans (and foreigners) use marijuana on a regular basis and we never hear of it being responsible for inciting any level of violent behavior. In fact any experienced police officer will tell you marijuana has a tranquilizing effect on its users.

 

[Syriusly]

Chattanooga Shooter Researched Religious Justification For Violence Official - Yahoo

Ok so not only did this guy self-medicate, but had issues with drunk driving, abuse of both legal and illegal drugs,
and who knows if he had any paranoid delusions made worse by marijuana.

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive
* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality
* nobody ever died from using marijuana

All across the country, while people are pushing to legalize drugs, not punish the choice of drug use, and not to hold drug users accountable for any health care costs or issues they may self-induce by such choices,

at the same time, the choice of how to pay for health care is regulated, restricted and punished with a fine if a citizen chooses another way to pay besides buying insurance.

And this is claimed as holding people responsible.

But not people who do drugs? Drug users deserve their freedom to do whatever and be trusted to pay the cost of those choices; but not law abiding taxpayers who aren't trusted to choose their own way of paying for health care? They have to be threatened with punishment, to take responsibility for their health, but not drug users?

Why is THAT choice more important to be freed from restriction, regardless of the risk to one's health and finances, but the choice to pay for health care is regulated and fined where citizens are NOT trusted with THAT choice?

Makes no sense. If this type of politics doesn't drive you crazy, you were already there!

So we should outlaw alcohol?

 

[emilynghiem]

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive

True. There is no authoritative medical evidence that marijuana is addictive or is harmful.

* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality.

True. Marijuana does not cause paranoia. If one is innately paranoid using marijuana, or any other mod-altering substance, such as beverage alcohol, is likely to engender symptoms.

* nobody ever died from using marijuana.

Quite true. There is no record in the annals of medical science of marijuana causing death or illness.

You obviously have chosen to believe all the negative Reefer Madness nonsense put forth about marijuana. But unless you simply prefer to remain misinformed you can do yourself a favor by reading, Marijuana, The Forbidden Medicine, by Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, PhD., Professor of Psychiatric Medicine, Harvard Medical School.

Hi MikeK No, I am going by what has happened to my friends after smoking Marijuana as part of their lifestyle,
versus the ones who went through spiritual healing and QUIT. And how their thinking changed.

I'm talking about the negativity, the anti/rebellion attitude and "denial / projection" that goes along with sustaining addiction.

People who break free from addiction don't go back and defend all those arguments pushing and defending drug use.

There is a total change in mentality, and they don't go backwards, they move forwards.

My friends who want to keep justifying their addictions stay stuck.
And defending those arguments just enables them to stay there.

This may not be proven yet, but the people who have discovered Spiritual Healing
and the liberating effects of healing body mind and spirit and changing lives
HAVE seen and understand the difference and ARE seeking medical research to prove this on a public scale.

So MikeK if you are willing to pay for all the people who would rather keep smoking pot
instead of working at full productive capacity, have at it.

But don't expect me to pay for addictive behavior, denial and projection
when I am already looking at a THIRD job to pay for the people trying to set up the RECOVERY work and programs
to BREAK the cycle of addiction, crime and poverty that comes with the denial mentality.

I'd rather invest in the cure and correction to these problems,
not funding more dependency! Sorry, but I find that unproductive
where it taxes, burdens and drags down the people working at full capacity
being forced to pick up the slack for those who think they can afford to buy and use drugs.

I find it no coincidence that the people working the hardest to liberate people
don't have time, energy, or resources to wasted doing drugs. It takes away from their ability to
invest in real community building, and healing of people and relationships destroyed by drugs, addiction,
and the cycles of crime and poverty tied to them.

 

[emilynghiem]

[You are dangerously misguided.
THC can cause permanent anxiety and depression, especially in young, developing brains.

While it is true that excessive use of marijuana (along with any other mind-altering substance) can damage the developing brain, the brain is considered fully developed by age twenty-one and Abdulazeez was twenty-four.

Keep in mind there are a great many stereotypical "pot-heads," i.e., those who smoke it heavily from morning to night, whose outstanding characteristic is passive inactivity. If this fellow was using an amphetamine in addition to marijuana, which he reportedly was, the amphetamine would vastly overwhelm the tranquilizing effect of the THC and is quite capable of inciting the kind of behavior he manifested.

Also keep in mind how many Americans (and foreigners) use marijuana on a regular basis and we never hear of it being responsible for inciting any level of violent behavior. In fact any experienced police officer will tell you marijuana has a tranquilizing effect on its users.

Dear MikeK
Of all the people I've known, including Monks who are on some of the highest levels of awareness that can be achieve NATURALLY without using drugs to "open up these channels"
NONE OF THEM have any desire to do drugs, nor spend any time advocating for the choice to do them.

They are too busy being productive, helping others, and not justifying any habit that requires lobbying to justify it.

Of all the people who have discovered, teach and promote Spiritual Healing to
help as many people as possible overcome the root causes of mental and physical disease, abuse and addiction,
and not only heal body mind and spirit NATURALLY but also heal personal, family and community relations,
NONE of them support drug use, in fact, more of them
counsel people to DROP the drug use that interferes with their ability to interact and work on things directly.

Sorry but I am going to go with the people who
are more concerned about people's HEALTH and WELL BEING
who have achieved much greater healing NATURALLY without relying on drugs that
require taking again and again to get the effects.

When people achieve these higher states of mind and productivity and being
NATURALLY without using drugs, then they can retain them without doing drugs,
and help other people to attain these levels without doing drugs.

So it is more independent, sustainable and natural than relying on drugs as a shortcut.

If you can show me where using drugs has achieved the same effect that spiritual
healing has in restoring the natural environment of healing of mind body spirit and all the relationships around people and their community, where this can be replicated
and expanded naturally, then I would believe that drugs are better than spiritual healing.

But from what I have seen, using drugs too often enables the pattern of addiction
and abuse that disrupts relations and detracts from the natural healing environment
as needed to prevent and correct the causes of mental, physical and social ills.

I have never seen spiritual healing create or perpetuate addiction or abuse;
it does the opposite by addressing the root cause of the abuse and breaking
the cycle so the people and the community around them ALL receiving healing.

The effects of spiritual healing are not limited to just those people.
the positive effects multiply and start influencing healing and positive change in the
relations and people around them. So it expands and replicates.

What I have seen drugs do is get more and more people caught up in the
negativity, denial and LOSS of productivity. It serves as a distraction or detriment.

Whereas spiritual healing REMOVES blockages caused by negative issues
and conflicts so that POSITIVE energy flows through naturally. There is no
need to manipulate the energy through drugs when this positive energy can be restored
and maximized naturally and sustainably through spiritual means that create
PERMANENT change, which then helps others to do the same in a POSITIVE cycle.

 

[emilynghiem]

Chattanooga Shooter Researched Religious Justification For Violence Official - Yahoo

Ok so not only did this guy self-medicate, but had issues with drunk driving, abuse of both legal and illegal drugs,
and who knows if he had any paranoid delusions made worse by marijuana.

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive
* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality
* nobody ever died from using marijuana

All across the country, while people are pushing to legalize drugs, not punish the choice of drug use, and not to hold drug users accountable for any health care costs or issues they may self-induce by such choices,

at the same time, the choice of how to pay for health care is regulated, restricted and punished with a fine if a citizen chooses another way to pay besides buying insurance.

And this is claimed as holding people responsible.

But not people who do drugs? Drug users deserve their freedom to do whatever and be trusted to pay the cost of those choices; but not law abiding taxpayers who aren't trusted to choose their own way of paying for health care? They have to be threatened with punishment, to take responsibility for their health, but not drug users?

Why is THAT choice more important to be freed from restriction, regardless of the risk to one's health and finances, but the choice to pay for health care is regulated and fined where citizens are NOT trusted with THAT choice?

Makes no sense. If this type of politics doesn't drive you crazy, you were already there!

So we should outlaw alcohol?

Syriusly
We should hold wrongdoers responsible for the costs of restitution and damages for abuses of either alcohol or marijuana.

We need a consistent system, similar to health and safety standards.
Then people can work out local policies on what risks they agree to pay for or not.

If you are paying for your own health care, your benefits if you don't work but depend on the collective program,
and this program is paid for by people who AGREE to the same free choice policies (whether drugs, abortion etc),
I see no problem with that.

Where the problems come from is one group pushing a different policies than other taxpayers believe in covering.
So if they can't agree on the terms, these tracks should SEPARATE.

The prolife wont have to pay for abortion related programs.
The prochoice won't be responsible for people choosing to have babies even by rape or incest.
The people who want drugs or prostitution legalized can pay for that.

The people who want guns regulated or deregulated can pay for their own costs associated.

If we can organize policies by parties, then all the members who believe in the same standards
can fund and participate under the rules of their choice.

Why not localize as much of these policies as possible, and quit trying to legislate one policy
for all people or all states if we KNOW not all the people believe the same things.

If we KNOW people are never going to agree, because their BELIEFS will not change
and cannot be forced to by govt, why even go there. All the more reason to separate by Party and quit
bullying back and forth.

 

[Syriusly]

Chattanooga Shooter Researched Religious Justification For Violence Official - Yahoo

Ok so not only did this guy self-medicate, but had issues with drunk driving, abuse of both legal and illegal drugs,
and who knows if he had any paranoid delusions made worse by marijuana.

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive
* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality
* nobody ever died from using marijuana

All across the country, while people are pushing to legalize drugs, not punish the choice of drug use, and not to hold drug users accountable for any health care costs or issues they may self-induce by such choices,

at the same time, the choice of how to pay for health care is regulated, restricted and punished with a fine if a citizen chooses another way to pay besides buying insurance.

And this is claimed as holding people responsible.

But not people who do drugs? Drug users deserve their freedom to do whatever and be trusted to pay the cost of those choices; but not law abiding taxpayers who aren't trusted to choose their own way of paying for health care? They have to be threatened with punishment, to take responsibility for their health, but not drug users?

Why is THAT choice more important to be freed from restriction, regardless of the risk to one's health and finances, but the choice to pay for health care is regulated and fined where citizens are NOT trusted with THAT choice?

Makes no sense. If this type of politics doesn't drive you crazy, you were already there!

So we should outlaw alcohol?

Syriusly
We should hold wrongdoers responsible for the costs of restitution and damages for abuses of either alcohol or marijuana.

We need a consistent system, similar to health and safety standards.
Then people can work out local policies on what risks they agree to pay for or not.

If you are paying for your own health care, your benefits if you don't work but depend on the collective program,
and this program is paid for by people who AGREE to the same free choice policies (whether drugs, abortion etc),
I see no problem with that.

Where the problems come from is one group pushing a different policies than other taxpayers believe in covering.
So if they can't agree on the terms, these tracks should SEPARATE.

The prolife wont have to pay for abortion related programs.
The prochoice won't be responsible for people choosing to have babies even by rape or incest.
The people who want drugs or prostitution legalized can pay for that.

The people who want guns regulated or deregulated can pay for their own costs associated.

If we can organize policies by parties, then all the members who believe in the same standards
can fund and participate under the rules of their choice.

Why not localize as much of these policies as possible, and quit trying to legislate one policy
for all people or all states if we KNOW not all the people believe the same things.

If we KNOW people are never going to agree, because their BELIEFS will not change
and cannot be forced to by govt, why even go there. All the more reason to separate by Party and quit
bullying back and forth.

So people only pay taxes on what they want to pay taxes on?

I am fairly certain that everyone will just say that they oppose all of those things, so they don't have to pay any taxes.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

[You are dangerously misguided.
THC can cause permanent anxiety and depression, especially in young, developing brains.

While it is true that excessive use of marijuana (along with any other mind-altering substance) can damage the developing brain, the brain is considered fully developed by age twenty-one and Abdulazeez was twenty-four.

Keep in mind there are a great many stereotypical "pot-heads," i.e., those who smoke it heavily from morning to night, whose outstanding characteristic is passive inactivity. If this fellow was using an amphetamine in addition to marijuana, which he reportedly was, the amphetamine would vastly overwhelm the tranquilizing effect of the THC and is quite capable of inciting the kind of behavior he manifested.

Also keep in mind how many Americans (and foreigners) use marijuana on a regular basis and we never hear of it being responsible for inciting any level of violent behavior. In fact any experienced police officer will tell you marijuana has a tranquilizing effect on its users.

Wrong. My son developed anxiety issue from pot and not until 23. In spite of my warnings, he was influenced by the incessant pro-pot propaganda of the ignorant and obstinate of the neocon, out-of-date 1960's mindset and culture.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.

 

[emilynghiem]

Chattanooga Shooter Researched Religious Justification For Violence Official - Yahoo

Ok so not only did this guy self-medicate, but had issues with drunk driving, abuse of both legal and illegal drugs,
and who knows if he had any paranoid delusions made worse by marijuana.

But all the politically correct sources will say:
* marijuana causes no harm and is non-addictive
* marijuana does not cause paranoia or alter anyone's personality
* nobody ever died from using marijuana

All across the country, while people are pushing to legalize drugs, not punish the choice of drug use, and not to hold drug users accountable for any health care costs or issues they may self-induce by such choices,

at the same time, the choice of how to pay for health care is regulated, restricted and punished with a fine if a citizen chooses another way to pay besides buying insurance.

And this is claimed as holding people responsible.

But not people who do drugs? Drug users deserve their freedom to do whatever and be trusted to pay the cost of those choices; but not law abiding taxpayers who aren't trusted to choose their own way of paying for health care? They have to be threatened with punishment, to take responsibility for their health, but not drug users?

Why is THAT choice more important to be freed from restriction, regardless of the risk to one's health and finances, but the choice to pay for health care is regulated and fined where citizens are NOT trusted with THAT choice?

Makes no sense. If this type of politics doesn't drive you crazy, you were already there!

So we should outlaw alcohol?

Syriusly
We should hold wrongdoers responsible for the costs of restitution and damages for abuses of either alcohol or marijuana.

We need a consistent system, similar to health and safety standards.
Then people can work out local policies on what risks they agree to pay for or not.

If you are paying for your own health care, your benefits if you don't work but depend on the collective program,
and this program is paid for by people who AGREE to the same free choice policies (whether drugs, abortion etc),
I see no problem with that.

Where the problems come from is one group pushing a different policies than other taxpayers believe in covering.
So if they can't agree on the terms, these tracks should SEPARATE.

The prolife wont have to pay for abortion related programs.
The prochoice won't be responsible for people choosing to have babies even by rape or incest.
The people who want drugs or prostitution legalized can pay for that.

The people who want guns regulated or deregulated can pay for their own costs associated.

If we can organize policies by parties, then all the members who believe in the same standards
can fund and participate under the rules of their choice.

Why not localize as much of these policies as possible, and quit trying to legislate one policy
for all people or all states if we KNOW not all the people believe the same things.

If we KNOW people are never going to agree, because their BELIEFS will not change
and cannot be forced to by govt, why even go there. All the more reason to separate by Party and quit
bullying back and forth.

So people only pay taxes on what they want to pay taxes on?

I am fairly certain that everyone will just say that they oppose all of those things, so they don't have to pay any taxes.

Dear Syriusly
***with issues of BELIEFS***
such as if you DO or DO NOT want to fund a public school that teaches creation/evolution
or has prayers etc. YES you DO have a say in what you DO or DO NOT want your PUBLIC FUNDS to pay for.

You have a right to say YES or NO to issues of BELIEFS.
It's also called NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.

That is why liberals have been yelling about "separation of church and state"
and not paying for public schools or state textbooks to make references to religious
things that are not BELIEFS the entire public subscribes to. NOBODY I'VE EVER MET
WANTS TO PAY FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S BELIEFS THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN, BUT WILL ARGUE LET THE PEOPLE PAY FOR THAT WHO SUBSCRIBE TO THOSE BELIEFS.

That is why prolife Christians are yelling about public funds NOT going into
stem cell research, or euthanasia or abortion/abortifacient drugs that violate their BELIEFS
(and recently the federal court case ruling resulted in favor of recognizing the religious
beliefs of a company not to endorse or provide abortifacient drugs against the owners' beliefs)

With BELIEFS we are supposed to "separate church and state" and NOT force people to fund faith-based beliefs through govt mandates, public laws and institutions.

That's what all the yelling and screaming has been about regarding everything from Roe V Wade to health care mandates, immigration and marriage laws that involve conflicting BELIEFS.
People by nature do NOT want to be forced by govt to fund BELIEFS that contradict their own; that is why our Constitution was written to recognize religious freedom and protection from laws establishing religious/faith-based BELIEFS.

This is actually a natural law governing human behavior and how we as human being relate to social order. Our Constitutional laws reflect this Natural Law that is inherent in human behavior/nature.

I have never met a human being who didn't protest if not REFUSE to
be forced to be under or fund a belief or system of beliefs that went against what they believe.
All authority for government, law and order is based on "consent of the governed" by the
very mechanisms by which human nature works in relation to collective society.

This is why our laws put that in writing and made it STATUTORY --
it is an inherent part of human nature to want to exercise religious freedom or 'freedom of choice" and to rebel refuse or reject as "tyranny or oppression" any kind of mandate against their beliefs.

 

[MikeK]

Wrong. My son developed anxiety issue from pot and not until 23. In spite of my warnings, he was influenced by the incessant pro-pot propaganda of the ignorant and obstinate of the neocon, out-of-date 1960's mindset and culture.

Your son is by no means typical or representative of the vast majority of persons who derive pleasure from and who benefit in some biological or psychological way from ingesting marijuana. So if your son manifested a problem after using marijuana it is both likely and probable that there was (is) something biologically or psychologically wrong with him to begin with.

There is no medicine, regardless of how simple or complex, which will not impose certain side effects on certain individuals. There are individuals who can die from a bee sting, or from eating peanuts, or from eating food prepared with MonoSodiumGlutemate, and more. And there are individuals who can experience a number of negative side effects from using marijuana. But no one has ever died or been made seriously ill from using marijuana. No one!

Fortunately the percentage of individuals who are susceptible to side effects from the above substances is miniscule. But in the example of marijuana the Reefer Madness fanatics will routinely seize upon any such occurrence to demonize the "devil weed" and insist that anyone who uses marijuana will suffer some mental or physical affliction.

If your mind is made up there is nothing I can say that will alter your belief where marijuana is concerned. But the Reefer Madness era is over. The public is becoming aware of the lies they've been fed for decades and little by little this grossly and wrongfully persecuted natural plant is being recognized for its beneficial properties. And when it's finally legalized, and the general public learns how to use it properly, they will look back on the recent past the way we now look back on the Dark Ages and the era of Puritanical ignorance.