Planned Parenthood caught trafficking in human body parts

[Cecilie1200]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

"Strangely silent" = I have my fingers in my ears and am clueless about what people say and do

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

But admittedly, we do tend to be better-inclined toward people who at least WANT a child, instead of viewing it as a nuisance to be flushed away.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You do realize that abortions after 20 weeks are extremely uncommon and account for only 1.5 %?

They are also strictly regulated after 24 weeks.

These aren't late term abortions being talked about here.

What aren't? The ones PP are harvesting for organs? They kinda have to be later-term by definition, y'know. It's the only way the organs are large enough to BE harvested.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Till the fetus is living and breathing apart from the mother's body, it is still up to her what happens to her body. If she is willing to male the commitment of her body for carrying the fetus and to give birth, that is her choice. If not, that too is her choice. Fetus does not live without her cooperation.
Late term is not simple thing to consider but when the life of the woman or the imminent suffering and death of the fetus is involved, it should be a decision she and her doctor make. Government and outsiders should not be a part of the decision.
There is no shortage of infants and children that need good homes in the world. Telling a woman she has no choice and has to carry and give birth is not your right and should never be. We are not a population of the verge of extinction that woman should be forced to be baby making machines. We are horrified by puppy mills but that is what you would force a women to be?

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

Would you prevent a woman from getting pregnant just to produce an organ(s) for a living child that would otherwise die? Why should you care if waste tissue is used for research. Both are used to save lives.

I'm not the least bit concerned about "waste tissue". So, um . . . what address should I send the guys in lab coats to so they can pick you up?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

No one is talking about human experimentation or experimentation on living beings. Hyperbole much? Or just the usual dishonest rhetoric. If so, I suggest you organize protests against cadever organ and tissue donation.

Sorry but I have already made arrangement for what is viable to be donated to science. I would be glad for students and scientists to learn from me. It could save others from suffering or even death. Otherwise I would just be so much worm food. Why anyone would want their bodies filled with plastic and put in a metal box for a century or more is to me unfathomable. I don't want people standing over a rock and crying over me. What a tragic waste.

I think organ donation should be automatic unless there is a specific reason against it. It should not be a choice to mark a box for donation but should be a choice to mark a box against it, and should be required to have a medical statement notarized for a reason against to be on file.

I stopped going to funerals long ago. Seen far too may buried. Seen too many die because of hate and prejudice. Seen too many that could not be saved. If that makes me a heartless *****, so be it. Even those in the medical profession eventually stop crying over every death of their patients. There are too many still alive that need them more than the dead. Death is inevitable for all of us.

I note in passing that you arranged to have your donations made AFTER you die of other causes, rather than arranging to have yourself killed so that we don't have to wait.

 

[Coyote]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Actually, we aren't silent on it. You just don't engage in that conversation because your primary focus is to justify the butchery of much older babies, so you only see us here.

Strange....I can find zillions of threads here on abortion but in vitro? No....

Same when it I look info...no mass protests, no demands being made....no labeling of "baby killer" and "slut" to the women who produced them.

But I understand your need to move the goalposts. Suddenly - you draw a distinction between the ages of a fetus. Why? Are some more worthy of protection than others?

Nope. It's just that the baby murderers don't go around screeching how great it is like they do about PP butcher shops. If you did, you'd find the same people there.

So where are all your anti-invitro threads? Why aren't you guys protesting in front of invitro clinics? Big profits there too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So it is a question on when it can live on it's own?

If the mother was willing and the fetus could be safely removed and transplanted.............but that is not yet a viable option yet. It is still the woman's seed and up to her if she would give it up. And if she was to be compensated for giving up tissue?

There are other causes to get involved in rather than a woman's right to choose if she is ready to be a mother or not. At what age, education level does she have or loose that right? If she is raped, does she have to carry the fetus? If she is undergoing medical treatment, does she have to give that up? What if she is in school or beginning a new job? What if there are other circumstances that make it the wrong time or just wrong for her? When is a woman's body her own? When do others have no say in what a woman can or chooses what is best for her physically, mentally, financially or moral for her? Religion should have no place in the law or a woman's right to choose.

whatever you do. don't call it a BABY. Don't you know women that goes around telling everyone. hey, we are going to have fetus. you people are sick in the head and they should use all the people who supports and works at PP as specimens for body parts. The brains won't be usable so they toss them in the garbage...... We'll refer to you as a fetus when we write about how heroic you were

That's a good idea. Allow them to do unlimited human experimentation...upon each other. They truly are mentally ill and should be locked away from humanity. They are a threat to it, as everybody is beginning to see. Too late, of course. The damage is done.

No one is talking about human experimentation or experimentation on living beings. Hyperbole much? Or just the usual dishonest rhetoric. If so, I suggest you organize protests against cadever organ and tissue donation.

Sorry but I have already made arrangement for what is viable to be donated to science. I would be glad for students and scientists to learn from me. It could save others from suffering or even death. Otherwise I would just be so much worm food. Why anyone would want their bodies filled with plastic and put in a metal box for a century or more is to me unfathomable. I don't want people standing over a rock and crying over me. What a tragic waste.

I think organ donation should be automatic unless there is a specific reason against it. It should not be a choice to mark a box for donation but should be a choice to mark a box against it, and should be required to have a medical statement notarized for a reason against to be on file.

I stopped going to funerals long ago. Seen far too may buried. Seen too many die because of hate and prejudice. Seen too many that could not be saved. If that makes me a heartless *****, so be it. Even those in the medical profession eventually stop crying over every death of their patients. There are too many still alive that need them more than the dead. Death is inevitable for all of us.

Of course you think it should be automatic. You think everything else is the property of the government, so why not people's bodies as well (unless, of course, we're talking about a woman getting an abortion. THAT is no one else's business). God forbid that personal choice EVER be considered the default, right? We should assume that you exist to fulfill the needs of the state, and any and all personal determination (except getting an abortion, of course) should be difficult to acquire.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Around 2 million of those potential embryos are destroyed each year in the US.

That's almost double the number of abortions in the US in one year.

Where's the appropriate level of outrage?

Someplace you didn't bother to look, because you preferred to assume that it didn't exist, in order to serve your narrative.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Organs are not viable for transplant. It is tissue viable for research and even to develop vaccines that save lives.

Something good out of something unfortunate.

So explain to me again why we're waiting for you to accidentally kak off, instead of taking your tissue donation now? Lord knows, it would be something good out of the unfortunate situation of having to listen to your evil, barbaric bullshit.

 

[Coyote]

It's interesting how these people are in a frenzy about abortion, and what to ethically do with the tissue resulting from it but have been strangely silent about the millions of embryos created through by the for-profit invitro fertilization clinics.

In the UK, 2012 - 1.7 million embryos were discarded.

Criticisms to this are fairly mild because it's in the name of helping couples to have more children.

Couples can choose to donate the embryos to research.

Around 2 million of those potential embryos are destroyed each year in the US.

That's almost double the number of abortions in the US in one year.

Where's the appropriate level of outrage?

Someplace you didn't bother to look, because you preferred to assume that it didn't exist, in order to serve your narrative.

Nope. I googled and searched and found sparse references. No one is protesting or blocking invitro clinics. No death threats, murders or arsons. The arguments seem more academic. No accusations of sluts and babykillers. No accusations of selling baby parts (even though they are).

Naperville Right to Life Activists Protest IVF Clinic Chicago magazine The 312 March 2012
Souls On Ice America s Embryo Glut and the Wasted Promise of Stem Cell Research Mother Jones
In Vitro Fertilisation The Life Resources Charitable Trust

The difference in attitude doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

actually there are 5 videos out now

I posted the fifth one on here and I noticed it has been ignored.

I noticed that my question to you about why you hate women has been ignored......Isn't that right Stephanie?

Maybe because "Have you stopped beating your wife?" sorts of questions are beneath notice, as are the ******* idiots who ask them.

And yet unsurprisingly the vast majority of those loaded question fallacies come from the USMB right, questions from conservative idiots that indeed merit no response.

 

[PK1]

The democrat party of buying and selling black people is still buying and selling black people. Only this time piece by piece.

---
WTF ???
Only Repubs think that stupid way.
In my experience, educated Independents who think for themselves and most Demos would not even suggest racist crap like that.

However, I'll give you the benefit of doubt in making such a sick joke, Repub style.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The democrat party of buying and selling black people is still buying and selling black people. Only this time piece by piece.

---
WTF ???
Only Repubs think that stupid way.
In my experience, educated Independents who think for themselves and most Demos would not even suggest racist crap like that.

However, I'll give you the benefit of doubt in making such a sick joke, Repub style.

It's no 'joke,' there's no doubt she's serious – she's among the more sick and reprehensible of the USMB right.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

SAKINAGO SAID:

"You still haven't answered if it is ok to pull the plug with a very very positive prognosis?"

That's because, as already correctly noted, this fails as a false comparison fallacy.

 

[sakinago]

Besides it should be an easy enough question to answer. Can the husband pull the plug on Sherri tiavo?

Once again, I would answer this with the analogy of requiring the doctor to work all day every day of that 3 months without compensation.

The machines are doing the work, and now it turns fiscal again. Is it right or wrong to pull the plug?

Fiscal? You are attempting to compare the treatment of an adult in a coma with the decision of a woman about carrying a child inside her body? No. I am not playing to that bait.

Yes fiscal, you gave me the scenario of of doctor day and night without pay . And I answered. And yes I am making that comparison, before you were arguing that schiavo was not going to regain any consciousness or recover. if you have that high if a probability of recovery do you pull the plug?

Let me ask you this, if I had been in an accident and needed a blood transfusion, and you were the only person around with my blood type, can they force you to give your blood?

Or an even better analogy, if someone needs an organ transplant to live, and someone has just died in the same hospital, can the organs be taken without consent?

It is call body autonomy.

Ahh finally, good response winter born . But I will tell you where the difference is, I am not responsible or in charge of their medical health and decisions. In the case of Sherri Tiavo the husband is, in the case of abortion or child rearing the mother is. We will lock up the mother who abandons her newborn in a dumpster, bc she is responsible for that child. Also o-, universal donor is very common, not a hard commodity to come by. And organ donation is on the other end, very hard commodity to come by, and a lot to ask a complete stranger to donate

So I am going to assume that you do not want to answer the Sherri tiavo question bc it presents a conflict with consistency for you.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Mike Huckabee Shows Off His Bigotry, Idiocy, And Warmongering, All In One Single Debate Addicting Info Mike Huckabee Shows Off His Bigotry Idiocy And Warmongering All In One Single Debate

Just listen to this jackass!

On abortion, and Planned Parenthood:
One of the GOP’s primary goals for this election cycle seems to be holding fast to the idea of defunding Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is the devil to these people because of abortion. Forget women’s health, forget all the other providers that don’t accept Medicaid, they must get rid of Planned Parenthood. When moderator Chris Wallace asked Huckabee about his position on a Constitutional amendment outlawing abortion, Huckabee said:

“A lot of people are talking about defunding Planned Parenthood, as if that’s a huge game changer. I think it’s time to do something even more bold. I think the next president ought to invoke the Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution now that we clearly know that that baby inside the mother’s womb is a person at the moment of conception.

Really. This is personhood. This is granting Constitutional rights to a fetus that isn’t even viable outside of the womb. It takes away the mother’s bodily autonomy altogether, and turns her into an incubator. Huckabee, being the incredibly idiotic person he is, though, only cares about whether that baby is born, and screw the person already living on this planet.

We know that the embryo is a person at the time of conception??!!! WE KNOW? Give me a ******* break

 

[Faun]

Terri Schiavo's upper brain was gone. It turned to liquid. There is no recovery from that. Essentially, who she was died years before they allowed her body to follow. Her brain weighed half what a normal brain should have weighed. She was NOT going to recover.

Winterborn you don't see where this is going? I said hypothetically, so would it be wrong to allow him to pull the plug if doctors said 98% chance that she will make full recovery in 3 months? Why did I pick the 3 month number?

Who knows where you think you're going with this since you're basing your destination on the fallacy that a 27 week embryo had a 98% chance of being born alive.

That's obviously not what I'm basing it on. and if you can't answer the hypothetical nor think a few steps further than you should not be in this discussion, and the repercussion that go along with it.

Hypothetically...let's say there is a woman named Sheri Tiavo, been so called brain dead for a few years. Husband wants to pull life support, doctors say, Oh my god she is getting better, give her a few months and she'll make a full recovery. Is it then still ok for the husband to pull the plug.

Carried to term, what's that 27 week "embryo" (pretty much fully developed baby) chances of survival? Or a 16 week embryo, carried to term, what's the chances of it's survival?

Again, who knows what you're getting at? It appears even you don't know. Here you are saying I don't know what you're getting at when I point out the viability of a 27 week embryo is not 98%, as you intimate -- but then you come back and ask what the viability is of a 27 week emryo.

....... it's not 98%.

Faun I'm starting to think that you are avoiding the question, and splitting hairs that are not even there. What is the viability when carried to TERM.

And back to the hypothetical I raised with our character Sherri Tiavo, is it ok to pull the plug if doctors say there will be a full recovery in a few months, maybe four months?

Because your hypothetical is irrelevant. But to appease you, no, that would not be ok. And since you want to play the hypothetical game .... in a hypothetical case of a pregnant woman whose unborn child at say 20 weeks is determined to have such extensive brain damage that it will be born in a vegetative state with no hope of ever recovering .... what reason is there she shouldn't be allowed to abort that pregnancy if she so chooses?

 

[Faun]

Again, who knows what you're getting at? It appears even you don't know. Here you are saying I don't know what you're getting at when I point out the viability of a 27 week embryo is not 98%, as you intimate -- but then you come back and ask what the viability is of a 27 week emryo.

....... it's not 98%.

Faun I'm starting to think that you are avoiding the question, and splitting hairs that are not even there. What is the viability when carried to TERM.

And back to the hypothetical I raised with our character Sherri Tiavo, is it ok to pull the plug if doctors say there will be a full recovery in a few months, maybe four months?

Sakinago, throughout this thread you have wanted the topic to be abortion. I'm beginning to think you are avoiding the actual topic.

I told you what I feel about it, that if that is how you feel about abortion then sure donate the parts. But when you don't feel that way, it's like saying well we robbed a bank, forget about that though, what do we do with the money now? And the other side is saying, wait you can't go robbing banks. If you don't recognize the other side then how can you have the debate?

So faun, and winter born too, is it ok for the husband to pull plug on Sherri Tiavo

No, that is a bad analogy.

For one thing, robbing banks is a crime and would be the lead story. Abortions are legal.

This is more like the Humane Society donating the parts of animals euthanized.

But to pro life folks it is a crime, which is why the analogy works. If you fail to see that, then the debate goes no where for either party

That's insanely stupid. Who cares what prolife folks think? Abortion is still not a crime. Robbing a bank actually is.

 

[sakinago]

Winterborn you don't see where this is going? I said hypothetically, so would it be wrong to allow him to pull the plug if doctors said 98% chance that she will make full recovery in 3 months? Why did I pick the 3 month number?

Who knows where you think you're going with this since you're basing your destination on the fallacy that a 27 week embryo had a 98% chance of being born alive.

That's obviously not what I'm basing it on. and if you can't answer the hypothetical nor think a few steps further than you should not be in this discussion, and the repercussion that go along with it.

Hypothetically...let's say there is a woman named Sheri Tiavo, been so called brain dead for a few years. Husband wants to pull life support, doctors say, Oh my god she is getting better, give her a few months and she'll make a full recovery. Is it then still ok for the husband to pull the plug.

Carried to term, what's that 27 week "embryo" (pretty much fully developed baby) chances of survival? Or a 16 week embryo, carried to term, what's the chances of it's survival?

Again, who knows what you're getting at? It appears even you don't know. Here you are saying I don't know what you're getting at when I point out the viability of a 27 week embryo is not 98%, as you intimate -- but then you come back and ask what the viability is of a 27 week emryo.

....... it's not 98%.

Faun I'm starting to think that you are avoiding the question, and splitting hairs that are not even there. What is the viability when carried to TERM.

And back to the hypothetical I raised with our character Sherri Tiavo, is it ok to pull the plug if doctors say there will be a full recovery in a few months, maybe four months?

Because your hypothetical is irrelevant. But to appease you, no, that would not be ok. And since you want to play the hypothetical game .... in a hypothetical case of a pregnant woman whose unborn child at say 20 weeks is determined to have such extensive brain damage that it will be born in a vegetative state with no hope of ever recovering .... what reason is there she shouldn't be allowed to abort that pregnancy if she so chooses?

Well that's different from aborting a perfectly healthy fetus, and yes that would be ok, just like schiavo.

Since you answered then, what is the difference when aborting a perfectly healthy fetus for personal reasons? Is it because it's legal? Well so was slavery, and Jim Crow. And explain to me how the hypothetical is irrelevant.

 

[Faun]

Who knows where you think you're going with this since you're basing your destination on the fallacy that a 27 week embryo had a 98% chance of being born alive.

That's obviously not what I'm basing it on. and if you can't answer the hypothetical nor think a few steps further than you should not be in this discussion, and the repercussion that go along with it.

Hypothetically...let's say there is a woman named Sheri Tiavo, been so called brain dead for a few years. Husband wants to pull life support, doctors say, Oh my god she is getting better, give her a few months and she'll make a full recovery. Is it then still ok for the husband to pull the plug.

Carried to term, what's that 27 week "embryo" (pretty much fully developed baby) chances of survival? Or a 16 week embryo, carried to term, what's the chances of it's survival?

Again, who knows what you're getting at? It appears even you don't know. Here you are saying I don't know what you're getting at when I point out the viability of a 27 week embryo is not 98%, as you intimate -- but then you come back and ask what the viability is of a 27 week emryo.

....... it's not 98%.

Faun I'm starting to think that you are avoiding the question, and splitting hairs that are not even there. What is the viability when carried to TERM.

And back to the hypothetical I raised with our character Sherri Tiavo, is it ok to pull the plug if doctors say there will be a full recovery in a few months, maybe four months?

Because your hypothetical is irrelevant. But to appease you, no, that would not be ok. And since you want to play the hypothetical game .... in a hypothetical case of a pregnant woman whose unborn child at say 20 weeks is determined to have such extensive brain damage that it will be born in a vegetative state with no hope of ever recovering .... what reason is there she shouldn't be allowed to abort that pregnancy if she so chooses?

Well that's different from aborting a perfectly healthy fetus, and yes that would be ok, just like schiavo.

Since you answered then, what is the difference when aborting a perfectly healthy fetus for personal reasons? Is it because it's legal? Well so was slavery, and Jim Crow. And explain to me how the hypothetical is irrelevant.

No, it's because a woman's rights supercede that of an unborn child and the state cannot force a woman to be pregnant against her wishes.

And your question was irrelevant because it wasn't based in reality. A 27 week old embryo does not have a 98% chance of being born alive.