Penalty for not buying insurance.

emilynghiem

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I see this is an old thread, so lets say you are in an auto accident , should they bring you to the er or just let you die,

and if they bring you to the er to save your life due to a fractured hip and broken pelvis , while in the hosp for your broken hip and pelvis they also discover you have abnormal lab work and doing a scan for your ribs see you also have a spot in your breast and a lymph node is enlarged in your armpit, the dx is breast cancer. They also suspect adult onset diabetes.

What do you do??
I'm not going to run down an endless 'what-if' list, but in general you do the same thing you do with all the other tragedies you might face in life. You figure out a way to deal with it. Or you don't.

Can I ask you, what do you see as the purpose of government?
Nope, the title of this thread is about mandatory health ins or pay a fine.
Yes. And the question is pertinent. In my view, forcing other people to buy things for your convenience is NOT the purpose of government.
Dear dblack and Penelope
1. I'd say the people like Penelope have the right to force themselves to terms under govt they agree to. Similar to Muslims who agree to submit to the Five Pillars, or to give up pork, because THEY have faith in these things. Sure, if YOU want to practice that through govt, fine, but can't impose it on others. Especially not through govt!

2. Penelope also has the right NOT to pay for ER and hospitals
under terms she doesn't agree to either! If she doesn't want to pay for people
who don't agree to insurance mandates, then let Democrats set up their
own system and terms and only pay for members who AGREE to those terms for THOSE govt contractual services.

3. Then apply this same to Conservatives who believe in privatizing health
care for Vets, for elderly etc. and managing facilities publicly but the programs through nonprofit charities or businesses
run by free choice of local owners residents and taxpayers under terms THOSE people and payers/payees agree to.

There is no reason we cannot separate these ways of funding and terms of health care.
We already have free choice to expand and develop more clinics and teaching hospitals
through EFFECTIVE programs such as Doctors without Borders or St. Jude's Children's Hospital which is an excellent model.

So let govt run health care believers fund their own terms and policies through their own registration system
they elect and pay for.

And let private groups set up and run theirs.

There is no reason to force either group under the terms of the other approach.

In fact, in order to be Constitutional protective, fair and equally inclusive of ALL people of ALL beliefs,
it becomes legally necessary to separate these two approaches
so they DON'T abuse govt to impose one way or another on the wrong people who believe the other way!

Congressman Rand Paul is supportive of the idea of ASSOCIATIONS that would allow
the best of govt stability and guarantee of health care while still respecting free choice of individuals and states
to manage their own resources without unnecessary/unconstitutional interference by federal govt.

Sean Hannity supports health care coops and so do the progressive Greens including
Paul Glover who teaches how to set up democratically locally managed health care "insurance."

It isn't easy, but it takes work to set up enough clinics and teaching hospital programs/internships/residencies
to serve the greater population in need.

So if it's going to take that much work, why compound it by fighting over federal vs state vs private jurisdiction?
Give taxpayers equal choice of funding whichever means they support, and develop ALL These venues.

But by FREE CHOICE of funding, so we quit fighting over that point.
Set up tax returns and tax forms where taxpayers check which boxes they want to fund,
for federal, state, party or private means of administering terms and provisions for health care.

Then we can all get to work building these programs through all venues instead of fighting over who is going to force which way on which people
which is UNCONSTITUTIONAL anyway!
I have insurance , and I don't believe in faith healing which is fakery. So go without and we get to pay for your visits to er and your healthcare.

I wouldn't belong to anything Hannity belongs to and I certainty wouldn't join a Christian healing crap.
Let's try this approach Penelope
the way you wouldn't want to be FORCED to join any "Christian Healing crap"
other people don't want to be FORCED to join a federal registry for insurance YOU believe in.

All I'm asking is equal protection of free choice in both cases.

If you want free choice, can you understand other people want free choice also.
NOT federal mandates that penalize people for paying for health care other ways.

If you want to reserve and enforce your own right to free choice,
can we agree that other people of other beliefs deserve the same protection of free choice?
Penelope

PS
1. nobody is forcing YOU to change your beliefs or join any Christian institution against your free choice.
The point is NOT to force this on anyone through federal govt.
And applying that same principle to not forcing anyone to believe in govt health insurance either
or force them to join that or face PENALTIES/fines if they don't comply.

2. Spiritual healing doesn't even work unless it's undertaken by free choice.
So what you are saying is self-contradictory.
You cannot force anyone to take on or change their faith, because if it is coerced it isn't real faith, it's fake.

Only you can decide or choose to be open that some forms of SPIRITUAL HEALING
have been documented by medical science to work effectively. And this is NOT the
same thing as false/fake faith healing that is forced and fails, and becomes dangerous and deadly.

What gets me Penelope is that you understand NOT to force Christian beliefs on people.
But when it comes to your own political beliefs, you think you have the right to use govt to force that belief on others against their will and beliefs.

Why the double standard?
 
OP
froggy

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No doubt a healthy attitude in life can ease stress , but no I will never believe in demonic possession. Stress can be relieved by other than believing in God or getting baptized , by exercise, by meditation, by a healthly diet to loose weight, but to depend on God to obtain sobriety is going to be a let down, that is why AA fails as a long term effectiveness. I would say its from hearing to all the horror stories of other like themselves that keep people off the drink or drugs.

I do not believe this:
My friend Olivia learned of this process when she was healed of cancer (in her
case it was put into remission where she could have children after she was told
by doctors she would never have kids or that she was dying and to prepare to die).

Why was she told to prepare to die, and no she could never have kids in the same sentence. What kind of CA did she have, her advancement of it, and if she has done anything physically to treat her CA.

Please do not tell these stories without back up of the medical history, diagnosis by more than one doctor with medical testing, and what treatment she had done.

I remember how, Francis McNutt, is who you believe in.

With the government out of our healthcare, except to tell us what we now do not have, it will be left up to the insurance companies, and hospital boards.

Like I have said the power of belief is very powerful, but the fact remains it reduces stress.
There is no such thing as stress that is only a mind game brought on by Word of Mouth
Doctors are not God they can be wrong that's why everyone should get 2nd 3rd or 4th opinions
There are a lot of medical conditions or exacerbated brought on by prolonged stress or if you prefer anxiety
Self inflicted brought on by power of persuasion.
 
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froggy

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There has been a penalty for not buying car insurance for as long as I can remember. You are forced to buy it.

Why is healthcare different?
Because car insurance pays this Obama care you have to pay for it and still pay the bill until you've met an outrageous deductible
 

justinacolmena

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Penelope do you believe in recovery therapy?
That when people recover from abuse, whether substance or relationship type abuse,
they use a form of therapy where the PERSON agrees to change
and they are able to start identifying memories and causes of the addictive or enabling behavior,
and take steps to remove that negative influence from their minds, habits and lives
so the pattern breaks and quits repeating (even if they relapse over time while breaking out of this cycle).
Enough with the quack therapy on a public forum.
1.) Just say no to drugs, and stop blaming the victim.
2.) The abuse never stops until the gun rights are restored.
 

emilynghiem

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Penelope do you believe in recovery therapy?
That when people recover from abuse, whether substance or relationship type abuse,
they use a form of therapy where the PERSON agrees to change
and they are able to start identifying memories and causes of the addictive or enabling behavior,
and take steps to remove that negative influence from their minds, habits and lives
so the pattern breaks and quits repeating (even if they relapse over time while breaking out of this cycle).
Enough with the quack therapy on a public forum.
1.) Just say no to drugs, and stop blaming the victim.
2.) The abuse never stops until the gun rights are restored.
??? justinacolmena

1a " quack" or fraudulent "faith healing is NOT what I mean here.
"Quack science" and fraud is totally OPPOSITE of spiritual healing that is natural, free and voluntary, effective and proven to work consistently with science and medicine.

1b. No, it does not blame the victim. Blame, guilt and fear block healing. Healing works by removing these barriers of guilt, fear, shame and any other negative factors keeping someone trapped in the past so they don't move forward. By breaking the cycle of blame and shame, that's how the healing is able to help victims of rape abuse addiction etc.
You don't heal victims of rape by blaming them. Nor with people affected by addiction or disorders.

1c Not everyone can say no to drugs if they are sick with addiction or compulsion. Again the spiritual healing process has been used to help people break free when they lost their minds, will and ability to choose better. So this is what I've referred and recommended who could not say no to self destructive patterns stemming from past issues. This was NOT about blaming the victim but breaking free from that blame holding them back. This spiritual healing saved at least 2 friends who were seriously and dangerously addicted. Many others also benefited after I referred them but weren't at as much risk of danger or dying. After they restored their natural willpower, then they could comply with better health advise and medical assistance. This does NOT replace reject or negate medical treatment and procedures, but facilitates all levels of healing and treatment and thus reduces the costs of time and resources by expediting the recovery process naturally.

2. As for gun rights being restored, by the time we all agree to respect each other's rights to respective political beliefs, this will solve the problems with defending rights to guns or to health care without abusing them or imposing them on others in ways that aren't Constitutional.

By the time we solve one conflict over policy, the same understanding and solution will apply to other political problems as well.
The same dynamics causing people to fear and NOT respect each other's beliefs and free will as "equal"
(as we see with people competing over gun rights, right to health care, right to marriage and other beliefs for which they bully and abuse each other)
are related to the abusive mentality and behavior behind drug addictions and criminal violations against others.

That dynamic needs to change, both individually and in relations between people and also collective groups.
Once we make this connection, between our individual mindsets, our relations and collective influence on society,
we will be better able to address the root causes of both political abuses and criminal violence
and quit fighting over problems and symptoms after the fact.

We won't stop until we get to the root of it, and we'll discover it's connected to solving other problem areas at the same time.

Changing how we approach and fund medical and mental health education and resources will
 

Muhammed

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There has been a penalty for not buying car insurance for as long as I can remember. You are forced to buy it.

Why is healthcare different?
I'm old enough to remember when the corrupt piece of shit politicians made auto insurance mandatory by law via threat of violence. Suddenly, auto insurance rates doubled. So did the salaries of the CEO's of insurance companies. What a coincidence.
 

dblack

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There has been a penalty for not buying car insurance for as long as I can remember. You are forced to buy it.

Why is healthcare different?
I'm old enough to remember when the corrupt piece of shit politicians made auto insurance mandatory by law via threat of violence. Suddenly, auto insurance rates doubled. So did the salaries of the CEO's of insurance companies. What a coincidence.
People want to see this kind of regulation as government "reigning in business". All-too-often it winds up as business using government to reign in customers.
 

emilynghiem

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There has been a penalty for not buying car insurance for as long as I can remember. You are forced to buy it.

Why is healthcare different?
I'm old enough to remember when the corrupt piece of shit politicians made auto insurance mandatory by law via threat of violence. Suddenly, auto insurance rates doubled. So did the salaries of the CEO's of insurance companies. What a coincidence.
People want to see this kind of regulation as government "reigning in business". All-too-often it winds up as business using government to reign in customers.
Thank you dblack
But more than that, they abuse govt contracts and authorization to abuse "customers" in turn.
Look at public school and public housing: if something goes wrong, people have to sue govt to correct it. And the govt claims immunity and uses PUBLIC resources to defend that side legally.
How can you expect to afford to win a lawsuit if taxpayers have to cover legal expenses for BOTH SIDES?

Liberal Democrats imagine that running things through govt gives people control to make sure it works and covers everyone equally as the default public authority and institution required to provide equal rights. But in practice it just makes taxpayers have to pay for everything whether or not it works. There's no inventive to make sure it does because contractors get their money and it's too hard to sue or force them to change _ because the convoluted legal and legislative process takes years to get anything done if it can be at all!
 

justinacolmena

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Do not force us to pay for that medieval European torture which masquerades as "medicine" with the force of "law" in the area of psychiatry, psychology, forced psychotropic medication, denial of civil rights and jobs, "counseling" and "therapy" under the order of a fraudulent court, and forcible and unnecessary hospitalization.

The docs are FIRED, and it's time to make a bonfire out of their medical school diplomas, all their insurance coding and billing, the faudulent prescriptions, and all the paperwork they file in court.

Someday they will be brought to justice for all the unnecessary surgeries, amputations, and other harm they inflict needlessly on their patients.
 

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