'Pay Teachers More'

[Mr. H.]

It can be a wonderful job. Or a really tough one depending on where you work. But for anyone who says "it's easy", I challenge them to spend a day substitute teaching. Just one day.

And if you love it, then step up to the plate. There should be quite a few openings within the next five years. Someone has to do it.

Roger that. The wife was always bringing work home, grading papers or working on lesson plans. Then there was the occasional call from a parent. She'd often put in 10-12 hrs./day including all the extra stuff.

I remember my first few weeks substitute teaching. It was all I could do to come home and collapse. I felt like I got hit by a truck. It got a little easier as time went by, but there were always some very challenging days.

 

[Flopper]

Good grief, whatever happened to a Teacher just wanted to be one to MAKE A DIFFERENCE in a child's LIFE.

now it's ALL ABOUT MONEY.

As if more MONEY is going to make them BETTER teachers or make the students learn more.

I think you hit on a big problem in education. Too many people, think of teaching as a calling such as entering the ministry, but for most teachers it is about money, at least just as much so as any other job. You're right, money will not make better teachers, doctors, lawyers, or engineers, but what it will do, is attract better qualified people into the field and keep them there. Ideally, Colleges of Education should have so many applicants that they can pick and choose like the Colleges of Law, Medicine, and Engineering.

 

[Flopper]

My wife teaches, she could have done just about anything in the business world but in the olden times - said facetiously - women taught, were mothers and home makers before returning to teaching. Because I have worked in corporate America, we live well. But if you are a teacher and bread winner, another old term, you'd have a tough go of it in America today. If we want a nation of educated citizens we must value education and pay for it, seems simple.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&hp

By Nicholas D. Kristof

"From the debates in Wisconsin and elsewhere about public sector unions, you might get the impression that we’re going bust because teachers are overpaid.

That’s a pernicious fallacy. A basic educational challenge is not that teachers are raking it in, but that they are underpaid. If we want to compete with other countries, and chip away at poverty across America, then we need to pay teachers more so as to attract better people into the profession."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...-disaster-for-higher-education-in-nevada.html

That's an interesting idea and is based on absolutely nothing.

Right now the highest paid teachers in the industrialized world are teaching in the Public Schools in the USA.

Those teachers are producing a product, test scores achieved by their students of the 12th grade, that rank 19th in the industrialized world right behind the Czech Republic.

Our teachers already are the highest paid on the planet and their work is substandard.

Our private school teachers are paid less and produce a higher quality product.

Since paying higher wages has not helped to produce higher test scores, what do you propose the amount of increase to be to produce higher scores?

In the Czech Republic, the teachers are paid about 1/5 the wage of teachers in the USA and produce better results.

No, we don't have the highest paid teachers in the world.
South Korea
Germany
Netherlands
Hong Kong
England
Australia
Finland
Singapore
Belgium
All pay more than the US.
Compared to other countries, U.S. flunks in teacher pay

Comparing test scores between the Czech Republic and the US is like comparing apples and oranges. In the Czech Republic and a number of other countries, after graduating from elementary schools, students must pass an entrance exam before they are allowed to enter high school. Students that don't pass and there are many, enter vocational schools. To make the comparison even more ridiculous, the students in these countries don't take the same test.
Czech Republic - Educational System

I don't know how you compare private and public school achievement because private schools do not use the same tests as public schools.

Private schools can pick and choose their students where public schools must accept all students. They don't have the huge financial burden of educating special ed. kids, second language kids, problem kids, or any kids that will be a financial burden to the school. They leave this to the public schools so of course they are going to have lower costs per pupil.

 

[Flopper]

I grew up in a middle and working class area, attending the local schools with most of the other kids in the neighborhood. The teachers were respected because our parents held us to proper standards. Such standards do not depend upon economic status; they depend upon VALUES.

We have been spending more per pupil, with very poor return:

CARPE DIEM: Education Spending Doubled, Stagnant Test Scores


Arguing for more teacher pay is pointless. It's not the pay that's the problem.

I really wonder about that graph. I've seen it many times. CA is $8736. Where are they spending over $11,000?

And looking at your graph, it occurs to me that the 70s was when women burned their bras and said that staying at home was oppressive and demeaning.

But I agree, throwing money at the problem isn't the answer. Unfortunately, I don't think there is an answer.

I would like them to go after the top administrative positions, personally. I don't think teacher wages are outrageous.

In 2003 in Florida, the cost was about $8400.

 

[mnbasketball]

MINI saysUnfortunately for all of us, your wife is the exception to the rule.

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.

It is no longer about teaching for the majority of teachers in our systems. If it were, Wisconsin would never have been in the news.





and the logical thing to do is get rid of teachers and replace them with people who don't have the qualification or history, and this will somehow make it better.

And MINI I will put any teacher up against you in any faze of our working society and I will bet your on the bottom of the two.

You people always want something for nothing from others but think you should be at the top of the ladder in wages.

 

[Article 15]

A lot of people wish they could AFFORD a house that cost, 300,000.
sorry dear. I'm not going to argue with you. take care.

That's why many (including myself) work second jobs. What's your solution? Have teachers live in their cars or ship the 10,000+ kids out of state?

yeah that's what I think, they should go live in their cars.
I work for a school and I can tell you, I DON'T make anything close to a teachers salary and I probably work twice as hard, gotta feed the little children breakfast and lunch and after school snack for some. And not only do I work two jobs, ( I do so because I want to stay on at the school and I love my job and the kids.), I also work a third job on the weekends. If I didn't have other jobs, I would HAVE TO FIND something for the SUMMER months out of school because I DON'T GET PAID FOR THAT....
so SORRY DEAR, you're not going to get much sympathy from me.

So you're a disgruntled lunch lady.

 

[Polk]

In education, as in every thing, you get what you pay more. The reason our teacher pool isn't great is because we don't pay teachers very much.

 

[Flopper]

That's why many (including myself) work second jobs. What's your solution? Have teachers live in their cars or ship the 10,000+ kids out of state?

yeah that's what I think, they should go live in their cars.
I work for a school and I can tell you, I DON'T make anything close to a teachers salary and I probably work twice as hard, gotta feed the little children breakfast and lunch and after school snack for some. And not only do I work two jobs, ( I do so because I want to stay on at the school and I love my job and the kids.), I also work a third job on the weekends. If I didn't have other jobs, I would HAVE TO FIND something for the SUMMER months out of school because I DON'T GET PAID FOR THAT....
so SORRY DEAR, you're not going to get much sympathy from me.

So you're a disgruntled lunch lady.

School lunchroom workers don’t make what teachers make because it’s a lot easier to become a lunchroom worker than a teacher. Teachers devote 4 to 6 years of their life in college at a cost of $40,000 to $100,000 in order to become a teacher. How hard we work or how hard the job is not the most important factor in determining pay. It's more about supply and demand. Maybe that's not fair, but that's life.

 

[code1211]

In education, as in every thing, you get what you pay more. The reason our teacher pool isn't great is because we don't pay teachers very much.

And yet private school teachers are paid less and the students they teach produce better scores on tests. Children who are home schooled are generally higher scoring on tests and their teacher/parents aren't paid at all.

Try another root cause.

 

[Provocateur]

In education, as in every thing, you get what you pay more. The reason our teacher pool isn't great is because we don't pay teachers very much.

And yet private school teachers are paid less and the students they teach produce better scores on tests. Children who are home schooled are generally higher scoring on tests and their teacher/parents aren't paid at all.

Try another root cause.

Both of those involve a higher level of parental involvement. The parents care about their kids' education.

 

[Flopper]

In education, as in every thing, you get what you pay more. The reason our teacher pool isn't great is because we don't pay teachers very much.

And yet private school teachers are paid less and the students they teach produce better scores on tests. Children who are home schooled are generally higher scoring on tests and their teacher/parents aren't paid at all.

Try another root cause.

And private schools do a hell of lot less. No Special Ed, No ESL, no Chapter One kids, little or no DOE reporting, no state testing requirements, and the rest of legislative requirements they put on public schools. Of course it's cheaper. Let the public schools pick and choose the best and cheapest students to educate and the cost of public education would drop dramatically. Of course it wouldn't be public education.

 

[psikeyhackr]

More money should be put into grade schools not colleges.

The kids are sabotaged by the time they get to college. Sometimes this is funny.



And sometimes it really pisses me off. They keep calling those clowns EDUCATED.

psik

 

[IanC]

In education, as in every thing, you get what you pay more. The reason our teacher pool isn't great is because we don't pay teachers very much.

I think you are wrong. and higher wages may even be counter productive. the people who make the best (or even good) teachers are the ones who do it as a vocation, they like to be around kids and make a difference. paying more money doesnt add to the pool of individuals with a natural bent towards teaching, it just attracts more people who want a 'cushy' union job with good benefits. the way to keep good teachers from leaving education is to give them more respect by enforcing discipline in the schools so they can teach rather than play jail guard. why do you think teachers in private schools are willing to work for less money?

 

[IanC]

More money should be put into grade schools not colleges.

The kids are sabotaged by the time they get to college. Sometimes this is funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0wk4qG2mIg

And sometimes it really pisses me off. They keep calling those clowns EDUCATED.

psik

I think you are incorrect. those students were exposed to the proper concept of axial tilt many times in their life but choose to use a reasonable concept that is more directly appropriate to their daily life, eg closer to the campfire is warmer.

Many intelligent people fall victim to using faulty reasoning to explain things when it 'makes sense' to them. many people believe in anthropogenic global warming because CO2 makes sense as a blanket or a greenhouse but they don't understand the 'heat pump' action of water evaporating and then releasing latent heat above the clouds during precipitation and hence just ignore this much larger effect.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Sounds great but what's your plan for doing this? Most Cities,Counties,and States are broke. Who's gonna pay them more? Please explain your plan.

 

[code1211]

My wife teaches, she could have done just about anything in the business world but in the olden times - said facetiously - women taught, were mothers and home makers before returning to teaching. Because I have worked in corporate America, we live well. But if you are a teacher and bread winner, another old term, you'd have a tough go of it in America today. If we want a nation of educated citizens we must value education and pay for it, seems simple.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&hp

By Nicholas D. Kristof

"From the debates in Wisconsin and elsewhere about public sector unions, you might get the impression that we’re going bust because teachers are overpaid.

That’s a pernicious fallacy. A basic educational challenge is not that teachers are raking it in, but that they are underpaid. If we want to compete with other countries, and chip away at poverty across America, then we need to pay teachers more so as to attract better people into the profession."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...-disaster-for-higher-education-in-nevada.html

That's an interesting idea and is based on absolutely nothing.

Right now the highest paid teachers in the industrialized world are teaching in the Public Schools in the USA.

Those teachers are producing a product, test scores achieved by their students of the 12th grade, that rank 19th in the industrialized world right behind the Czech Republic.

Our teachers already are the highest paid on the planet and their work is substandard.

Our private school teachers are paid less and produce a higher quality product.

Since paying higher wages has not helped to produce higher test scores, what do you propose the amount of increase to be to produce higher scores?

In the Czech Republic, the teachers are paid about 1/5 the wage of teachers in the USA and produce better results.

No, we don't have the highest paid teachers in the world.
South Korea
Germany
Netherlands
Hong Kong
England
Australia
Finland
Singapore
Belgium
All pay more than the US.
Compared to other countries, U.S. flunks in teacher pay

Comparing test scores between the Czech Republic and the US is like comparing apples and oranges. In the Czech Republic and a number of other countries, after graduating from elementary schools, students must pass an entrance exam before they are allowed to enter high school. Students that don't pass and there are many, enter vocational schools. To make the comparison even more ridiculous, the students in these countries don't take the same test.
Czech Republic - Educational System

I don't know how you compare private and public school achievement because private schools do not use the same tests as public schools.

Private schools can pick and choose their students where public schools must accept all students. They don't have the huge financial burden of educating special ed. kids, second language kids, problem kids, or any kids that will be a financial burden to the school. They leave this to the public schools so of course they are going to have lower costs per pupil.

Your comparison of teachers pay around the world is based on the pay as a percent of GDP in the country and only God and the statistician who lie about it know how that is calculated.

Meaningless.

If you want to argue facts, find some and come back when you have them. Cloudy and foggy non facts are for speeches at the union hall.

Who constructs the procedures and poicies that govern the education of children in public schools? If you said the professionals in the teaching proffession, you would be right. It is they who define the goals and set the ciriculum and define the hierarchy and set the the entire mess in motion.

It is they who then work within this system as drones continuing to fail and continuing to not correct the failure.

If the system is broken and the teachers are brilliant, they should be able to fix the system.

If the system is broken and is not fixed, either the teachers are not brilliant and can't figure it out or the they don't give a poop beyond anything but their pensions and pay.

Which is it?

 

[Rogo]

I believe this point has already been made previously in this thread, but I might as well express my opinion. I believe that if we want our country to grow in certain areas, then we need to pay teachers like it's an actual profession. I know many educators, including my own mother, who work countless hours at their job to impact kids' lives. She and other colleagues similar to her deserve a pay increase (and I mean a substantial one). If you want education to improve then two things must be accomplished:
1.) An increase in pay
2.) Raising the bar in terms of educational requirements
3.) More funds directed towards education

In Japan, they pay teachers as if they are doctors...

 

[logical4u]

My wife teaches, she could have done just about anything in the business world but in the olden times - said facetiously - women taught, were mothers and home makers before returning to teaching. Because I have worked in corporate America, we live well. But if you are a teacher and bread winner, another old term, you'd have a tough go of it in America today. If we want a nation of educated citizens we must value education and pay for it, seems simple.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&hp

By Nicholas D. Kristof

"From the debates in Wisconsin and elsewhere about public sector unions, you might get the impression that we’re going bust because teachers are overpaid.

That’s a pernicious fallacy. A basic educational challenge is not that teachers are raking it in, but that they are underpaid. If we want to compete with other countries, and chip away at poverty across America, then we need to pay teachers more so as to attract better people into the profession."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...-disaster-for-higher-education-in-nevada.html

I don't believe most people have a problem with "paying" teachers. Most people have a problem with the high cost of education (and yes there is a difference). Why do we need to pay administrator of school districts and colleges such outrageous sums? Why do we need to put billions into "landscaping"?
When the students are being sent home with "supply lists" that costs over $50 a student, and we are paying more per student than ever before, a lot of us are just saying enough. Soon, the public education system will have priced itself out of work as more people are turning to private, charter and home schooling.
I feel for teachers, I don't think they need "college", I think they need a martial arts courses and authority in the classroom. In many cases, they are only being used as babysitters where teaching comes in at a distant second or third on the priority list. Hats off to the 'real workhorses' of the educational system.

 

[Rogo]

I don't believe most people have a problem with "paying" teachers. Most people have a problem with the high cost of education (and yes there is a difference). Why do we need to pay administrator of school districts and colleges such outrageous sums? Why do we need to put billions into "landscaping"?
When the students are being sent home with "supply lists" that costs over $50 a student, and we are paying more per student than ever before, a lot of us are just saying enough. Soon, the public education system will have priced itself out of work as more people are turning to private, charter and home schooling.
I feel for teachers, I don't think they need "college", I think they need a martial arts courses and authority in the classroom. In many cases, they are only being used as babysitters where teaching comes in at a distant second or third on the priority list. Hats off to the 'real workhorses' of the educational system.

The reason why students are being sent home with expensive supply lists is because of the lack of funding the educational system receives. Do I believe that the funding should be distributed in more responsible/efficient ways? Of course I do. Do I feel that it's a good idea to take away funding because of that reason? No, I don't.

Also, I feel that the 'babysitters' of public schooling are but a tiny minority in comparison to the hard-working educators that make up the majority. But it still needs to be handled nonetheless.

 

[Lasher]

I don't believe most people have a problem with "paying" teachers. Most people have a problem with the high cost of education (and yes there is a difference). Why do we need to pay administrator of school districts and colleges such outrageous sums? Why do we need to put billions into "landscaping"?
When the students are being sent home with "supply lists" that costs over $50 a student, and we are paying more per student than ever before, a lot of us are just saying enough. Soon, the public education system will have priced itself out of work as more people are turning to private, charter and home schooling.
I feel for teachers, I don't think they need "college", I think they need a martial arts courses and authority in the classroom. In many cases, they are only being used as babysitters where teaching comes in at a distant second or third on the priority list. Hats off to the 'real workhorses' of the educational system.

The reason why students are being sent home with expensive supply lists is because of the lack of funding the educational system receives. Do I believe that the funding should be distributed in more responsible/efficient ways? Of course I do. Do I feel that it's a good idea to take away funding because of that reason? No, I don't.

Also, I feel that the 'babysitters' of public schooling are but a tiny minority in comparison to the hard-working educators that make up the majority. But it still needs to be handled nonetheless.

How's the weather there in La-La land??