Palestinians Reject Two State Solution

[Shusha]

No, the Jews were native and inhabitants of Europe. The Christians and Muslims were the native inhabitants of Palestine. Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations states that the "inhabitants" of the former Turkish territories were to receive tutelage, not inhabitants of Europe. The British refused to provide tutelage to the Christians and Muslims. I have provided all the links to the official correspondence that shows that while the British were negotiating with the Zionist Organization, the British Colonial Office refused to work with the Christian and Muslim leadership.

You obviously haven't read your own links since the substance of the letters most clearly demonstrate that the Arab delegation refused to co-operate with the Mandate and the purpose of the Mandate, for example:

the People of Palestine cannot accept the creation of a National Home for the Jewish People in Palestine as a basis for negotiation

It is also very clear in the correspondence that the British would have been only too happy to accommodate the Arab delegation had they accepted the restrictions under which the British had been placed to include a Jewish National Homeland in Palestine.

Then, as now, its the rejection of the principle of self-determination and self-government for BOTH peoples that is the stumbling block. The British then and Israel now will not accept a situation which leads to the destruction of the Jewish National Homeland.

And it is quite shocking how similar the arguments of the Arab Delegation a hundred years ago are to the demands of the Arab Palestinians and Team Palestine now.



And the Jewish people, the Jewish culture and Jewish sovereignty originated in Israel, Judea and Samaria thousands of years ago. Pre-conquest. Pre-Arab-conquest. Making them the indigenous peoples. The Diaspora does not change that fact in any way.

 

[montelatici]

No, you haven't read the letters. The Christians and Muslims, rightfully, notwithstanding the British excuses, insisted that they be afforded the rights guaranteed by Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations as were all other inhabitants of the former Turkish territories. To avoid negotiating with the representatives of the People of Palestine, the British insisted that the representatives did not have standing. And, the British continued the charade until 1948. To wit:

"...he (Churchill) is not in a position to negotiate officially with you or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine..."

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

He only negotiated with the Zionist Organization.

Furthermore, the People of Palestine did not believe that their rights would be protected as promised by Churchill referring to the second part of the Balfour Declaration where it states that the rights of the native inhabitants would be protected. They were prescient. The British had no intention of protecting the rights of the native inhabitants and were just delaying until they could flood more Jews into Palestine that could ethnically cleanse enough of the land to establish a Jewish state whose people would rule over the few remaining non-Jews. Who would never achieve self-determination.

"The point to which Mr. Churchill has endeavoured to address himself, in his communications with your Delegation, is the provision of adequate safeguards for the fulfilment of the second part of the Declaration. He cannot but express his disappointment that the Delegation should decline to co-operate with him in seeking a practical solution of this important question.

 

[montelatici]

The European Jews were European. The native Christians and Muslims inhabitants of Palestine are the indigenous people who converted to Christianity and Islam over the centuries. Many of their ancestors, if not a plurality, practiced Judaism. They have a much closer relationship to the land than Europeans of whatever religion.

 

[Hollie]

It was thousands of years ago when Ghengis Khan invaded the area called Palestine. None of those kids "look" Chinese / Mongolian.

So once again, you refute your own argument with your cutting and pasting.

 

[teddyearp]

Thanks for the acknowledgement, but when you make absurd assertions, it isn't too difficult to make you look like a fool. Maybe you should read the source material before you respond in the future. So, your false assertion that there were no Palestinians until Arafat has been debunked, once and for all. At least on this forum. God knows the number of sites you parrot the Zionist propaganda on.

Hmm. How to reply? The intention of my post was to warn the newcomers to some of your same old drivel. In your first sentence you thank me, then quickly say I am making absurd assertions. So, does that mean you are not actually as educated as you have claimed over and over again? Then in your third sentence you assert things that my post did not contain at all. Your fifth sentence asks how many other sites I 'parrot' on, another assertion, no, assumption. I do not 'parrot' anything, and this is the only site I post my political views of the I/P conflict upon.

So, you know what they say about assuming, right? Who's the fool now?

 

[teddyearp]

Nice try Mr. Muslim Archbishop, I'm not the only one that caught your dimwitted posts.

Let's review one of your posts, the one you started as a thread and then abandoned.

Palestinian Archbishop Fired by Greek Orthodox Christians

While I agree that sometimes MJB does makes some weird posts, I can not for the life of me see how you can call him a Muslim Archbishop from this statement and links.

But this is what amuses us about you. You will take anything you can and twist it, spin it, tell it enough times to make it into a so called 'truth' to support your narrative.

 

[teddyearp]

Here is the link to the thread he started, note that he claims Muslims can't get along with Christians when the article is about a Christian Archbishop being fired by his superior in the Greek Orthodox Church.

Palestinian Archbishop Fired by Greek Orthodox Christians

Again, I still call that quite a stretch to assert that MJB thinks that there are Muslim Archbishops.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There were no Armistice Agreements with Palestine, because, blah, blah, blah

You missed the point of my post.

 

[teddyearp]

The European Jews were European. The native Christians and Muslims inhabitants of Palestine are the indigenous people who converted to Christianity and Islam over the centuries. Many of their ancestors, if not a plurality, practiced Judaism. They have a much closer relationship to the land than Europeans of whatever religion.

Monti, please provide proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the child on the left actually is from and/or lives in Israel.

Because I have been there and most of the Jews there look a bit more like the child on the right, especially the children.

 

[montelatici]

Here is the link to the thread he started, note that he claims Muslims can't get along with Christians when the article is about a Christian Archbishop being fired by his superior in the Greek Orthodox Church.

Palestinian Archbishop Fired by Greek Orthodox Christians

Again, I still call that quite a stretch to assert that MJB thinks that there are Muslim Archbishops.

You are hilarious. What does his post say about the article, it says:

"It is truly sad that Muslim Palestinians cannot even get along with fellow Christian Palestinians."

How would the article lead him to post that?

Talk about dumb and dumber. LOL

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Let us start by remembering that the fundamental purposes of the UN as an organization is to maintain international peace and security. The UN tries to act in the furtherance of prevention and removal of threats to the peace. This is the very meaning behind Chapter I of the UN Charter with the intent to suppress acts of aggression and the outbreak of hostilities.

Cablegram from the Secretary-General (SG) of the League of Arab States (LAS) to the Secretary-General of the United Nations (1948)

On the occasion of the intervention of Arab States in Palestine to restore law and order and to prevent disturbances prevailing in Palestine from spreading into their territories and to check further bloodshed, I have the honour to request your Excellency to bring following statement before General Assembly and Security Council.​

.......The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. ​

Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace

(COMMENT)

The first dynamic to International Diplomacy at the policy level is the concept for a "Just War." Technically, today, the FIRST USE of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter I Article 2(4) shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression.

The excerpt of the Cablegram (To SG - From LAS) is essentially a confession (prima facie evidence) to the act of FIRST USE. Technically, there were at least seven counts. Today, it would be Seven Counts in contravention of Chapter I/UN Charter --- and --- Seven Count in violation of Rome Statue - Article 8 bis Crime of aggression. However, in the 1948 invasion by LAS Armed Forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.

• The remarkable thing here is the fact that it must be a State(s) against State(s) - remembering that there was no State of Palestine at that time - AND - that it is an "invasion" OR "attack" against a sovereignty.
​

The "Just War" Defense given by the LAS is that:

• Jewish aggression was the proximate cause of Peace and order having been completely upset in Palestine.
• To prevent Jewish Forces from committing excessive (war crimes like) acts upon those peaceful Arabs and villagers of Deer Yasheen, Tiberias, and other places.
• That the sovereignty and independence of the Jewish State was improperly establish and that only the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration.
​

The underlying opposition against the LAS justification for aggression rests with:

• Chapter I is interpreted to include the concept that no consideration of whatever may be granted to the LAS in the nature of the intervention; whether political, economic, military or otherwise. None may serve as a justification for aggression.
• Chapter VII provides for the Jewish State to initiate defensive actions with Respect to Threats to the Peace, Breaches of the Peace and Acts of Aggression by the FIRST USE of armed force against Israeli declared sovereignty.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

WHAT WAS THE POINT?

There were no Armistice Agreements with Palestine, because, blah, blah, blah

You missed the point of my post.

 

[MJB12741]

There was no attack by the Arab League. Your continue to propagate this propaganda. The Arab League entered Palestine to restore order and protect the native inhabitants of Palestine. The aggressors were the hostile Jews as indicated below in the Arab League declaration to the UN and as confirmed by recently declassified British intelligence reports.

Cablegram from the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States to the Secretary-General of the United Nations (1948)

"On the occasion of the intervention of Arab States in Palestine to restore law and order and to prevent disturbances prevailing in Palestine from spreading into their territories and to check further bloodshed, I have the honour to request your Excellency to bring following statement before General Assembly and Security Council........Peace and order have been completely upset in Palestine, and, in consequence of Jewish aggression, approximately over a quarter of a million of the Arab population have been compelled to leave their homes and emigrate to neighbouring Arab countries. The prevailing events in Palestine exposed the concealed aggressive intentions of the Zionists and their imperialistic motives, as clearly shown in their acts committed upon those peaceful Arabs and villagers of Deer Yasheen, Tiberias, and other places, as well as by their encroachment upon the building and bodies of the inviolable consular codes, manifested by their attack upon the Consulate in Jerusalem.................................The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory.

Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace

The Arab league entered Palestine to restore order & protect the native Jews of Palestine??? Don't that beat all?

 

[montelatici]

The Zionists that invaded Palestine and displaced the native Christians and Muslims were from Europe. That's all there is to know. They were not inhabitants of Palestine as Article 22 of the LON Covenant stated were to receive tutelage to be able to become an independent state. Furthermore, European Jews are European genitically:

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

But, more to the point. When the Arabs, who were the officers and non-commissioned officers, with thousands of convert foot soldiers invaded Palestine and conquered Jerusalem, the inhabitants were Christians, as was required by the Romans/Byzantines after Christianity became the state religion. Prior to Constantine's conversion and the adoption of Christianity as the state religion, the Romans only regularly persecuted members of one religion, Christianity. There are many hypotheses as to why they tolerated other religions such as the Persian cult of Mithraism, the Egyptian cult of Isis, Neoplatonism and Judaism, for example. One is that only the Christians refused to call the Emperor lord, another is that the Christians were suspected of cannibalism (the Eucharist was thought to be a literal eating of the body and blood of Christ). So the Christians of Palestine were converts to Christianity whose parent and grand parents practiced a variety of religions, including Judaism.

Do you think that the Christian inhabitants of Palestine disappeared and somehow were replaced by Muslims after the Arab conquest? No, the Christians of Palestine remained Christian and were the majority of the people in Palestine for centuries after the conquest, and only slowly converted to Islam as it became increasingly socially and economically beneficial to adopt the religion of the ruling class.

The native Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the descendants of these people and they have a much stronger tie to the land than Zionists that lived on another continent.

 

[montelatici]

There was no attack by the Arab League. Your continue to propagate this propaganda. The Arab League entered Palestine to restore order and protect the native inhabitants of Palestine. The aggressors were the hostile Jews as indicated below in the Arab League declaration to the UN and as confirmed by recently declassified British intelligence reports.

Cablegram from the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States to the Secretary-General of the United Nations (1948)

"On the occasion of the intervention of Arab States in Palestine to restore law and order and to prevent disturbances prevailing in Palestine from spreading into their territories and to check further bloodshed, I have the honour to request your Excellency to bring following statement before General Assembly and Security Council........Peace and order have been completely upset in Palestine, and, in consequence of Jewish aggression, approximately over a quarter of a million of the Arab population have been compelled to leave their homes and emigrate to neighbouring Arab countries. The prevailing events in Palestine exposed the concealed aggressive intentions of the Zionists and their imperialistic motives, as clearly shown in their acts committed upon those peaceful Arabs and villagers of Deer Yasheen, Tiberias, and other places, as well as by their encroachment upon the building and bodies of the inviolable consular codes, manifested by their attack upon the Consulate in Jerusalem.................................The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory.

Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace

The Arab league entered Palestine to restore order & protect the native Jews of Palestine??? Don't that beat all?

You do have a reading comprehension problem too, I see. LOL

 

[member]

He insisted that a Greek Orthodox Archbishop was a Muslim. He even started a thread to that effect.

No! Really?

The funny thing is that he keeps trying to deny it, as he did above, and then I post the link to thread he started and his assertion regarding Muslim Archbishops is there in black and white. He is so dimwitted he keeps doing the same thing over and over and expects a different result, i.e. one that doesn't humiliate him. Or is that the definition of insanity?

Here is the link to the thread he started, note that he claims Muslims can't get along with Christians when the article is about a Christian Archbishop being fired by his superior in the Greek Orthodox Church.

Palestinian Archbishop Fired by Greek Orthodox Christians

"The funny thing is that he keeps trying to deny it, as he did above, and then I post the link to thread he started and his assertion regarding Muslim Archbishops is there in black and white. He is so dimwitted he keeps doing the same thing over and over and expects a different result, i.e. one that doesn't humiliate him. Or is that the definition of insanity?"







oh, no, he knows 'how' it's coming across....

​

 

[P F Tinmore]

• There is no current treaty between Lebanon and Israel. The International Boundary, currently monitored by the UNIFIL along the 2015 Blue Line was last confirmed in a Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General; after a border-crossing incident.

You are reading into this what you want.

If there is an international border between Israel and Lebanon, why the blue line?

Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...”​

They could not require Israel to withdraw across its own border because Israel has no border there.

√ Article III(1) states: The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” (Note: that term is in quotes and does not say international border.) that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 (The international border between Lebanon and Palestine) was meticulously retraced in 1949, (The 1949 armistice line that is not to be a political or territorial boundary.) under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

There is nothing here that shows that Israel has a border with Lebanon. That is the international border between Lebanon and Palestine.

 

[montelatici]

He insisted that a Greek Orthodox Archbishop was a Muslim. He even started a thread to that effect.

No! Really?

The funny thing is that he keeps trying to deny it, as he did above, and then I post the link to thread he started and his assertion regarding Muslim Archbishops is there in black and white. He is so dimwitted he keeps doing the same thing over and over and expects a different result, i.e. one that doesn't humiliate him. Or is that the definition of insanity?

Here is the link to the thread he started, note that he claims Muslims can't get along with Christians when the article is about a Christian Archbishop being fired by his superior in the Greek Orthodox Church.

Palestinian Archbishop Fired by Greek Orthodox Christians

"The funny thing is that he keeps trying to deny it, as he did above, and then I post the link to thread he started and his assertion regarding Muslim Archbishops is there in black and white. He is so dimwitted he keeps doing the same thing over and over and expects a different result, i.e. one that doesn't humiliate him. Or is that the definition of insanity?"







oh, no, he knows 'how' it's coming across....

​

Dumb, dumber and dumbest.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Then, as now, its the rejection of the principle of self-determination and self-government for BOTH peoples

The Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews. They are one people.

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Let us start by remembering that the fundamental purposes of the UN as an organization is to maintain international peace and security. The UN tries to act in the furtherance of prevention and removal of threats to the peace. This is the very meaning behind Chapter I of the UN Charter with the intent to suppress acts of aggression and the outbreak of hostilities.

Cablegram from the Secretary-General (SG) of the League of Arab States (LAS) to the Secretary-General of the United Nations (1948)

On the occasion of the intervention of Arab States in Palestine to restore law and order and to prevent disturbances prevailing in Palestine from spreading into their territories and to check further bloodshed, I have the honour to request your Excellency to bring following statement before General Assembly and Security Council.​

.......The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. ​

Arab League Declaration on the intervention in Palestine, 15 May 1948 | Religion :: Science :: Peace

(COMMENT)

The first dynamic to International Diplomacy at the policy level is the concept for a "Just War." Technically, today, the FIRST USE of armed force by a State in contravention of the Charter I Article 2(4) shall constitute prima facie evidence of an act of aggression.

The excerpt of the Cablegram (To SG - From LAS) is essentially a confession (prima facie evidence) to the act of FIRST USE. Technically, there were at least seven counts. Today, it would be Seven Counts in contravention of Chapter I/UN Charter --- and --- Seven Count in violation of Rome Statue - Article 8 bis Crime of aggression. However, in the 1948 invasion by LAS Armed Forces against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.

• The remarkable thing here is the fact that it must be a State(s) against State(s) - remembering that there was no State of Palestine at that time - AND - that it is an "invasion" OR "attack" against a sovereignty.
​

The "Just War" Defense given by the LAS is that:

• Jewish aggression was the proximate cause of Peace and order having been completely upset in Palestine.
• To prevent Jewish Forces from committing excessive (war crimes like) acts upon those peaceful Arabs and villagers of Deer Yasheen, Tiberias, and other places.
• That the sovereignty and independence of the Jewish State was improperly establish and that only the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration.
​

The underlying opposition against the LAS justification for aggression rests with:

• Chapter I is interpreted to include the concept that no consideration of whatever may be granted to the LAS in the nature of the intervention; whether political, economic, military or otherwise. None may serve as a justification for aggression.
• Chapter VII provides for the Jewish State to initiate defensive actions with Respect to Threats to the Peace, Breaches of the Peace and Acts of Aggression by the FIRST USE of armed force against Israeli declared sovereignty.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

You are still shoveling Israeli shit.

Nobody attacked Israel.