Palestine Today

[Shusha]

The fact that “ Palestine” has declared itself a No Israelis Allowed Country or that Jews can’t pray at the Western Wall is OK with him. ...

Yes. And this is why it is so hypocritical for Arab Palestinians to complain about their "mistreatment" at the hands of Israel. They hold two different sets of standards -- one for Jews and one for everyone else.

 

[rylah]

Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.

I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.

OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?

It has to be weighed against the property lost by Jews in Gaza as well as Jaffa.

Can't slice that thin enough, always to sides.

I have no problem with Jews getting their homes back in Gaza or Hebron.

This is a good notion, for that to happen an atmosphere has to be created in Gaza more than in Hebron.
It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return, many even prefer Israel to PLO or Hamas.

The key again in my opinion is to try to seek for a combination of people who in their nature are capable of having a rational conversation. That's why I wanted to discuss what Vera Baboun said.

It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return,

Of course I don't mean any Jews from anyplace, but those who specifically lost their homes.

And I guess You'd go with their descendants too?
I told You already once, You won't find any nation that bought the land more times than Jews. We CAN establish a long line. Don't think differently, only open that gate and Your side will beg for a reparations settlement.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.

Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
You haven't yet define "justice".

No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?

You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.

If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.

No I don't. What is your perspective?

The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria. This connection was established on a non governmental level.

That wasn't the question.

 

[rylah]

Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
You haven't yet define "justice".

No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?

You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.

If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.

No I don't. What is your perspective?

The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria. This connection was established on a non governmental level.

That wasn't the question.

That was my answer, think was relevant to Your question and beyond.

 

[Shusha]

The only path to peace is through justice.

Yes, but what does justice look like? Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time? Is this the only way to "restore" them? As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".

Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?

 

[Shusha]

Of course I don't mean any Jews from anyplace, but those who specifically lost their homes.

And all their descendants, yes?

 

[rylah]

Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
You haven't yet define "justice".

No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?

You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.

If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.

No I don't. What is your perspective?

The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria. This connection was established on a non governmental level.

That wasn't the question.

I can add that Vera Baboun said something like (paraphrazing) - "Too many women speak the language of men". I see this in Ahed Tamimi.

Tamimis in Hebron? Different attitude to even their Sharia judge in the PA.
Tamimis in Qatar? Slowly coming to rational sense.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The only path to peace is through justice.

Yes, but what does justice look like? Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time? Is this the only way to "restore" them? As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".

Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?

I don't see any options on the table.

 

[Shusha]

[
I can add that Vera Baboun said something like (paraphrazing) - "Too many women speak the language of men". I see this in Ahed Tamimi.

Yes. This.

 

[rylah]

P F Tinmore so we go with giving specific people who were moved due to the conflict or their descendants as well?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore so we go with giving specific people who were moved due to the conflict or their descendants as well?

Inheritance counts.

 

[rylah]

Let me find a Shaaltiel...

 

[rylah]

Just warming up...

2 Millennia Of Jewish History Emanate From A Single Family

 

[Shusha]

I don't see any options on the table.

Well, here's the biggest problem with that small-view of justice: Putting everything, and all the people, back the way it was in 1922, or 1948 or 1967, or 586 BCE doesn't actually solve the problem. It doesn't address the essential conflict. And therefore, does not actually provide justice for anyone.

True justice would be a way for BOTH peoples to move forward without conflict. It would acknowledge that neither the 3rd generation descendants of a former Iraqi Jew living in peace and comfort in Israel nor the 3rd generation of descendants of an Arab Palestinian living in peace and comfort in America require restoration and that neither is especially likely to want to be "put back".

True justice would concentrate on two things -- a good life for the ACTUAL refugees who have not been resettled and providing a collective justice for the two peoples.

 

[Shusha]

I don't see any options on the table.

And let's talk about justice for Nabi Saleh. What do you suppose that look like?

Is it enough for Nabi Saleh to have sole access to the one spring in the area and to be able to farm all the land that was registered to them in, oh, say, 1910? Is that what would bring justice to these people?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't see any options on the table.

And let's talk about justice for Nabi Saleh. What do you suppose that look like?

Is it enough for Nabi Saleh to have sole access to the one spring in the area and to be able to farm all the land that was registered to them in, oh, say, 1910? Is that what would bring justice to these people?

Probably, plus any general problems with the occupation.

 

[Shusha]

I don't see any options on the table.

And let's talk about justice for Nabi Saleh. What do you suppose that look like?

Is it enough for Nabi Saleh to have sole access to the one spring in the area and to be able to farm all the land that was registered to them in, oh, say, 1910? Is that what would bring justice to these people?

Probably, plus any general problems with the occupation.

What would those be?

 

[rylah]

She's sensible P F Tinmore, pay attention she never talks or accuses only one side.
Criticizes both and opens a door for conversation.

 

[rylah]

Wonder if Golda Meir could find commonality with her...

 

[rylah]