On the palestinian armed struggle I

[theHawk]

I think Jose brings up some valid points. Like Isreal doesn't treat all its citizens equally...the analogy to South Africa is a good one. However, you must realize when in a state of war....its impossible to have complete true freedom. You must crack down on your enemies in order to restore peace. When it comes down to it, Palestinians are unwilling or unable to police themselves. So long as they allow attacks on Isreal, they(Isreal) will retaliate just like anyone else would, and they certainly aren't going to give their enemies political power. Giving Hamas a majority certainly isn't sending a good message either. As it stands now, the people have spoken....and they are calling for the destruction of Isreal(Hamas' creed, and I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything but a call for genocide)....not to live in peace with it as you claim. If racism is rank in the middle east, its coming from the Arabs. They are the ones who cannot stand "Infidels" setting foot on "their" holy land. Most Arabs are brainwashed since birth to hate Jews and their faith in Islam of course is the root of the problem.

 

[José]

Last post
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Beginning of the Palestinian armed struggle: 1959

PLO: 1964

Creation of Hamas: 1987

The palestinian armed struggle precedes the creation of Hamas (more than 25 years).

History is on my side.... the conflict in Palestine is about land, not religion or anti-semitism.

The partial islamisation of the Palestinian cause (born out of the frustration with the stalemate) is indeed a sad development but it does not define the conflict in any way.

The palestinian cause existed before Hamas and will continue to exist after Hamas is gone.

Do palestinian arabs have the right to live in western Palestine or not?

This is the fundamental question that defines the conflict in Palestine... hardly a religious one.

 

[dilloduck]

Last post
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Beginning of the Palestinian armed struggle: 1959

PLO: 1964

Creation of Hamas: 1987

The palestinian armed struggle precedes the creation of Hamas (more than 25 years).

History is on my side.... the conflict in Palestine is about land, not religion or anti-semitism.

The partial islamisation of the Palestinian cause (born out of the frustration with the stalemate) is indeed a sad development but it does not define the conflict in any way.

The palestinian cause existed before Hamas and will continue to exist after Hamas is gone.

Do palestinian arabs have the right to live in western Palestine or not?

This is the fundamental question that defines the conflict in Palestine... hardly a religious one.

I think they have to act like nice people first.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Dilloduck
I think they have to act like nice people first.

Sorry... had to answer this one...

Look... Dillo... everybody in Palestine know by now that Israel is a doomed state...

Why’s that???

Because palestinian arabs will never accept the loss of 78% of their historical homeland and a substantial number of Israelis will never give up what they believe is their right to live in Eastern Palestine (Judea and Samaria).

Everybody knows by now that Israel will gradually evolve to a unitary state absorbing the palestinian territories. Then a long peaceful struggle for civil rights for palestinians will begin.

The problem is no one is willing to take the first step.

Palestinian arabs don’t want to end their armed struggle because Israel does not recognise their right to live in western palestine and one of the reasons Israelis don’t want to discuss the democratisation of Palestine is exactly the perpetuation of the palestinian armed struggle.

The two sides are asking the other to act like nice people first.

So they get stuck in a vicious cycle of dehumanisation where one denial feeds the other.

And the saddest of all is that the longer Israel lasts, the longer it will take to promote the reconciliation between the two peoples.

Sometimes I think it will take another 50 years to undo all the mess the partition of Palestine has caused.

 

[dilloduck]

Sorry... had to answer this one...

Look... Dillo... everybody in Palestine know by now that Israel is a doomed state...

Why’s that???

Because palestinian arabs will never accept the loss of 78% of their historical homeland and a substantial number of Israelis will never give up what they believe is their right to live in Eastern Palestine (Judea and Samaria).

Everybody knows by now that Israel will gradually evolve to a unitary state absorbing the palestinian territories. Then a long peaceful struggle for civil rights for palestinians will begin.

The problem is no one is willing to take the first step.

Palestinian arabs don’t want to end their armed struggle because Israel does not recognise their right to live in western palestine and one of the reasons Israelis don’t want to discuss the democratisation of Palestine is exactly the perpetuation of the palestinian armed struggle.

The two sides are asking the other to act like nice people first.

So they get stuck in a vicious cycle of dehumanisation where one denial feeds the other.

And the saddest of all is that the longer Israel lasts, the longer it will take to promote the reconciliation between the two peoples.

Sometimes I think it will take another 50 years to undo all the mess the partition of Palestine has caused.

The whole place looks doomed to me. Irreconcilable differences. If the Arabs want to make western Israel look like the Gaza strip I can see why Israel objects to the idea.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Sorry... had to answer this one...

Look... Dillo... everybody in Palestine know by now that Israel is a doomed state...

Why’s that???

Because palestinian arabs will never accept the loss of 78% of their historical homeland and a substantial number of Israelis will never give up what they believe is their right to live in Eastern Palestine (Judea and Samaria).

Everybody knows by now that Israel will gradually evolve to a unitary state absorbing the palestinian territories. Then a long peaceful struggle for civil rights for palestinians will begin.

The problem is no one is willing to take the first step.

Palestinian arabs don’t want to end their armed struggle because Israel does not recognise their right to live in western palestine and one of the reasons Israelis don’t want to discuss the democratisation of Palestine is exactly the perpetuation of the palestinian armed struggle.

The two sides are asking the other to act like nice people first.

So they get stuck in a vicious cycle of dehumanisation where one denial feeds the other.

And the saddest of all is that the longer Israel lasts, the longer it will take to promote the reconciliation between the two peoples.

Sometimes I think it will take another 50 years to undo all the mess the partition of Palestine has caused.

The thing is, reconciliation with islamist wackjobs means becoming islamic.

 

[Annie]

Sorry... had to answer this one...

Look... Dillo... everybody in Palestine know by now that Israel is a doomed state...

Why’s that???

Because palestinian arabs will never accept the loss of 78% of their historical homeland and a substantial number of Israelis will never give up what they believe is their right to live in Eastern Palestine (Judea and Samaria).

Everybody knows by now that Israel will gradually evolve to a unitary state absorbing the palestinian territories. Then a long peaceful struggle for civil rights for palestinians will begin.

The problem is no one is willing to take the first step.

Palestinian arabs don’t want to end their armed struggle because Israel does not recognise their right to live in western palestine and one of the reasons Israelis don’t want to discuss the democratisation of Palestine is exactly the perpetuation of the palestinian armed struggle.

The two sides are asking the other to act like nice people first.

So they get stuck in a vicious cycle of dehumanisation where one denial feeds the other.

And the saddest of all is that the longer Israel lasts, the longer it will take to promote the reconciliation between the two peoples.

Sometimes I think it will take another 50 years to undo all the mess the partition of Palestine has caused.

Excuse me, you've already said that Israel must cease to exist, there is nothing for the Israelis to bargain for, just protect.

 

[KarlMarx]

They have a right to live in Palestine free of ethnic discrimination but they have zero right to discriminate against another people.

It’s quite ironic that you mentioned the security of the jewish people since american jews are probably safer in the US than the ones living in Israel.

But this is what happens when you build your safety on racial supremacism...

The safety of the jewish people is a good cause to support, Marx, but if you are willing to implement their safety through the discrimination of other human beings then you might just as well join the KKK because from this moment on you’ll have become every bit as bad as the original evil you were trying to fight.

Hey Einstein, there's a difference between the way the KKK operates and the way the Jewish/Palestinian conflict. For one thing, the KKK is more like the Palestinians in that they'd like to see all Jews wiped off the face of the earth because..... they hate them! Pure and simple. On the other hand, the Jewish state is fighting for its survival. And why? Because most of the countries surrounding it are devoted to the destruction of Israel and similarly the destruction of the Jews.

You haven't heard of the Grand Mufti, a Moslem cleric, who back in WW II had conferences with Hitler regarding the Jewish Question -- i.e. the genocide of the Jews. The Grand Mufti wanted Hitler to build death camps in the Middle East so that the Jews in that part of the world could be dealt with. In fact, the Grand Mufti became an honorary member of the SS -- the branch of the German military that ran the death camps.

And finally, the Grand Mufti's devoted pupil was none other than a certain Egyptian named "Yassir Arafat", who later went on to found the PLO.

This tells me that the so called Palestinian leadership was, is and always will be anti-Jew. Because the Grand Mufti did his stuff way before the state of Israel existed. So this nonsense about Israel existing being the cause of Arab hostility is a bunch of lies and you're silly enough to believe all of it.

Otherwise, you wouldn't come off sounding like the spokesperson for Osama Bin Laden or Al Jazeerah.

As long as the israeli government continues to deny citizenship to millions of palestinians living in refugee camps in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebannon, Israel will still be a jewish racial dictatorship, no matter how many civil rights are granted to israeli arabs.

I'm not going to be an apologist for everything the Israelis do. However, you will have to admit that the state of Israel and the people who live there are far better off most people in that region of the world. The fact is that Israel is a lot closer to being a democracy, even if it isn't to your liking that most of the Middle East. The people who live in Israel, citizen or not, have a higher standard of living than most people in the Middle East.

Keep the “genocide/throw the jews into the sea” propaganda / bullshit to yourself.

The conflict in Palestine is basically a war over land, settlers and natives, just like in the Americas with the red vs the white. European settlers claiming to be ethnic jews started immigrating to Palestine and this large scale immigration eventually resulted in the massive displacement of the indigenous population of western Palestine. Now the displaced native people is fighting for their right to live in the western half of their ancestral homeland. That’s all it is - it has nothing to do with religion or anti-Semitism or hating Jews. It’s just a conflict over land pure and simple.

Everybody in Israel knows perfectly well that the only reason behind the palestinian armed struggle is the denial by the jewish racial dictatorship of their civil rights, their rights to live in their own land.

They know perfectly well the conflict is about palestinian arabs’ right to live in western palestine, not this genocide crap.

If you don’t know this basic fact about this conflict, I strongly recommend you to stop for a while and ask yourself:

“What am I doing here, discussing a subject I know nothing about?”

Hey Einstein, who do you think you're talking to? Why don't you keep your anti-semite bullshit to yourself?

The Arab Israeli conflict isn't about anything but the Arabs' hatred of the Jews, point blank. It isn't about people who were forcibly displaced from their homes, but people who abandoned their homes of their own accord when the Jewish state was formed.

The Arabs declared war on the Israeli state on the first day of its existence. Before 1947, there were no Palestinian people, otherwise the British would have had the same problems that the Jews are having now. If the question was about the Palestinians wanting a place of their own, then why the "Death to Israel" crap that comes out of the mouths of their leadership? Why did they vote for Hamas? If the Palestinian leadership simply wanted land for themselves, they could have had it by now. Instead, Arafat and his cronies have reneged on every agreement they made with the Israelis.

There would be no Palestinian armed struggle if the leadership of Palestine just came to its senses, decided to abandon its policy of hatred and antagonism against the Jews.

And for your information, Einstein, our country took in and assimilated tens of millions of people from other countries. So you comparing the oppression of native American Indians hundreds of years ago to what is happeing in the Middle East is just a bunch of lies.

There is plenty of land to go around in the Middle East and it's the Palestinian leadership that doesn't want to live with the Jews, not the other way around.

Oh, and another thing, Israel had nothing to do with the attacks of 9/11. Osama Bin Laden said in no uncertain terms that the attacks were due to #1) American support of Israel and #2) American presence on Islamic lands. The entity which has plunged the world into the deepest international crisis since the end of the Cold War is Islamo-fascism, not the Jewish state of Israel. It is the Islamofascists who bombed the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the Khobar Towers, the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. The same who rioted and burned European cities this spring, the ones who attacked the London subway system, and the people in Madrid. The same who rioted only recently over a bunch of cartoons.

And Einsteins like you are their enablers when you make these brazen faced statements.

You obviously get all your facts from Al Jazzerah or some other Arab propaganda source.

 

[dilloduck]

Before 1947, there were no Palestinian people, otherwise the British would have had the same problems that the Jews are having now.

let's be fair now--the British occupation of area called palestine was no picnic.
Lot's of violence and some terrorist bombings.

 

[archangel]

Hey Einstein, there's a difference between the way the KKK operates and the way the Jewish/Palestinian conflict. For one thing, the KKK is more like the Palestinians in that they'd like to see all Jews wiped off the face of the earth because..... they hate them! Pure and simple. On the other hand, the Jewish state is fighting for its survival. And why? Because most of the countries surrounding it are devoted to the destruction of Israel and similarly the destruction of the Jews.

You haven't heard of the Grand Mufti, a Moslem cleric, who back in WW II had conferences with Hitler regarding the Jewish Question -- i.e. the genocide of the Jews. The Grand Mufti wanted Hitler to build death camps in the Middle East so that the Jews in that part of the world could be dealt with. In fact, the Grand Mufti became an honorary member of the SS -- the branch of the German military that ran the death camps.

And finally, the Grand Mufti's devoted pupil was none other than a certain Egyptian named "Yassir Arafat", who later went on to found the PLO.

This tells me that the so called Palestinian leadership was, is and always will be anti-Jew. Because the Grand Mufti did his stuff way before the state of Israel existed. So this nonsense about Israel existing being the cause of Arab hostility is a bunch of lies and you're silly enough to believe all of it.

Otherwise, you wouldn't come off sounding like the spokesperson for Osama Bin Laden or Al Jazeerah.




I'm not going to be an apologist for everything the Israelis do. However, you will have to admit that the state of Israel and the people who live there are far better off most people in that region of the world. The fact is that Israel is a lot closer to being a democracy, even if it isn't to your liking that most of the Middle East. The people who live in Israel, citizen or not, have a higher standard of living than most people in the Middle East.




Hey Einstein, who do you think you're talking to? Why don't you keep your anti-semite bullshit to yourself?

The Arab Israeli conflict isn't about anything but the Arabs' hatred of the Jews, point blank. It isn't about people who were forcibly displaced from their homes, but people who abandoned their homes of their own accord when the Jewish state was formed.

The Arabs declared war on the Israeli state on the first day of its existence. Before 1947, there were no Palestinian people, otherwise the British would have had the same problems that the Jews are having now. If the question was about the Palestinians wanting a place of their own, then why the "Death to Israel" crap that comes out of the mouths of their leadership? Why did they vote for Hamas? If the Palestinian leadership simply wanted land for themselves, they could have had it by now. Instead, Arafat and his cronies have reneged on every agreement they made with the Israelis.

There would be no Palestinian armed struggle if the leadership of Palestine just came to its senses, decided to abandon its policy of hatred and antagonism against the Jews.

And for your information, Einstein, our country took in and assimilated tens of millions of people from other countries. So you comparing the oppression of native American Indians hundreds of years ago to what is happeing in the Middle East is just a bunch of lies.

There is plenty of land to go around in the Middle East and it's the Palestinian leadership that doesn't want to live with the Jews, not the other way around.

Oh, and another thing, Israel had nothing to do with the attacks of 9/11. Osama Bin Laden said in no uncertain terms that the attacks were due to #1) American support of Israel and #2) American presence on Islamic lands. The entity which has plunged the world into the deepest international crisis since the end of the Cold War is Islamo-fascism, not the Jewish state of Israel. It is the Islamofascists who bombed the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the Khobar Towers, the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. The same who rioted and burned European cities this spring, the ones who attacked the London subway system, and the people in Madrid. The same who rioted only recently over a bunch of cartoons.

And Einsteins like you are their enablers when you make these brazen faced statements.

You obviously get all your facts from Al Jazzerah or some other Arab propaganda source.

"and the beat goes on"
Sony and Cher no? The only beef I have with Judasim is they say eating pork"the other white meat" is a no no...then again so does Islam..Whats a guy going to do? I love BLT's !