Okay, so who's right?

[TemplarKormac]

But, if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama because of all the stupid shit you believe.

But wait! This gets even better!

Are you admitting Obama shares those qualities with Putin? Oh wow.

No, you should reread my post. Actually, while you're at it why down you flag down an adult to read it for you.

Oooh, now the insults. Death knell of the liberal argument.

"if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama"

That's all it took. Your words. Want to try again?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Still with the false equivalencies. But, if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama because of all the stupid shit you believe.

The moronic Imperitrash is a masochist just on here to get his fair share of daily abuse.....I'm done

I'm still here, you're the one running away. It seems to me you're the one who can't endure the abuse. From one person (two in my case).

 

[Tehon]

To be quite honest yes, Putin is stronger as a leader than Obama. Take for instance the sureness of their leadership. Putin is sure of himself, even if it was making the wrong decision to annex Crimea, he did it. He didn't bow to political pressure, he just did it. Obama is afraid to cross that red line he drew in Syria because he was afraid he'd upset the anti-war cooks.

Think about it. I'm not endorsing anything Putin has done, not the annexation, not the crackdown on journalists or political opponents. But Putin isn't afraid of upsetting people with his decisions, whether they be good or bad.

You are confusing leadership with force. Real leaders don't need to gain compliance through threats, which is what Putin does. Putin governs through intimidation, fear and force. He maintains a psychological choke-hold over the consciousness of Russians, which is why you see this "support." It's a 100% authoritarian approach. You'll only ever see real leadership in a democratic republic. Leadership within a totalitarian regime is not leadership -- it's force. When your citizens essentially have NO CHOICE but to support you, you are not a real leader, but a bully.

He maintains a psychological choke-hold over the consciousness of Russians, which is why you see this "support."

Hilarious that you have a Krishnamurti quote in your sig, and seem totally unaware that he would've hated Putin more than anyone else on the planet. Yet you seem to think Putin is just "A-OK." You're a strange one, dude.

You don't understand Krishnamurti.

lol, I read at least 15 of his books in my early 20's. I went through a major Krishnamurti phase. YOU do not understand a damn thing he said, that much is obvious.

Quote me something that supports your claim that he would have hated Putin.

 

[HappyJoy]

Still with the false equivalencies. But, if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama because of all the stupid shit you believe.

The moronic Imperitrash is a masochist just on here to get his fair share of daily abuse.....I'm done

Yeah, I agree, he can't stay on topic, misunderstands posts and most of all, he praises Putin because Trump wants him to. I'm done too.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Still with the false equivalencies. But, if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama because of all the stupid shit you believe.

The moronic Imperitrash is a masochist just on here to get his fair share of daily abuse.....I'm done

Yeah, I agree, he can't stay on topic, misunderstands posts and most of all, he praises Putin because Trump wants him to. I'm done too.

Which leaves me the last one standing!

(Wait, I'm actually standing?)

 

[TemplarKormac]

And with that, this thread is dead. As it should be.

 

[HappyJoy]

Still with the false equivalencies. But, if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama because of all the stupid shit you believe.

The moronic Imperitrash is a masochist just on here to get his fair share of daily abuse.....I'm done

Yeah, I agree, he can't stay on topic, misunderstands posts and most of all, he praises Putin because Trump wants him to. I'm done too.

Which leaves me the last one standing!

(Wait, I'm actually standing?)

I'll reply to you one more time because you are misconstruing my post so I'll give you a hint and post it again, focus on the bold part.

"Still with the false equivalencies. But, if you think political intimidation is a strong trait in a leader then you should love Obama because of all the stupid shit you believe."

 

[SYTFE]

You are confusing leadership with force. Real leaders don't need to gain compliance through threats, which is what Putin does. Putin governs through intimidation, fear and force. He maintains a psychological choke-hold over the consciousness of Russians, which is why you see this "support." It's a 100% authoritarian approach. You'll only ever see real leadership in a democratic republic. Leadership within a totalitarian regime is not leadership -- it's force. When your citizens essentially have NO CHOICE but to support you, you are not a real leader, but a bully.

He maintains a psychological choke-hold over the consciousness of Russians, which is why you see this "support."

Hilarious that you have a Krishnamurti quote in your sig, and seem totally unaware that he would've hated Putin more than anyone else on the planet. Yet you seem to think Putin is just "A-OK." You're a strange one, dude.

You don't understand Krishnamurti.

lol, I read at least 15 of his books in my early 20's. I went through a major Krishnamurti phase. YOU do not understand a damn thing he said, that much is obvious.

Quote me something that supports your claim that he would have hated Putin.

He hated authority, especially extreme authority, as he viewed it as the biggest barrier to achieving psychological freedom. He rejected all authority, and encouraged anyone who would listen to him to do the same. He viewed deeply held religious traditions and political beliefs as barriers, and even taught that they were the beginning stages of violence.

He would've thought Putin and his actions on his people would've been extraordinarily ugly, damaging and aggressive. Aggression was violence, to Krishnamurti. No one would've been able to reach the ultimate state (of when the observer is the observed) in a perpetual state of fear. Russia is actually a great embodiment of being trapped by an external authority, something he was constantly talking about freeing oneself from. The blind following of such a tyrant would've been a huge no-no. Men like Putin are one of the biggest contributors to a "sick society," and only men like Putin can exist in a profoundly sick society. An enlightened population would never allow themselves to be slave to such an authoritarian.

He really hated rigid ideologies and was constantly harping on that. He viewed it as the ultimate source of division. Division leads to violence, and violence leads to wars, according to him.

"All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man."​

Another common theme was "following" someone else. He viewed following 'gurus' or 'leaders' as stemming from fear, and that in doing so, you lose dignity. The "unthinking, unquestioning" following of Putin by Russians would be seen as very degrading to him.

"If you have fear, you are bound by tradition, you follow some leader or guru. When you are bound by tradition, when you are afraid of your husband or your wife, you lose your dignity as an individual human being."​

Everything he taught always came back to attaining psychological freedom. That simply couldn't happen within the culture that Russia has created under a dictator.

"If we depend for our happiness on another, on society or on environment, they become essential to us; we cling to them, and any alteration of these we violently oppose because we depend upon them for our psychological security and comfort."​

He also would've viewed Putin's organized killing of journalists and critics to be "war." And war, to Krishnamurti, was the epitome of all that is disgusting and vile with humanity.

"Organized murder is war, and though we demonstrate against a particular war, the nuclear, or any other kind of war, we have never demonstrated against war."​

Here's another one:

"We are domesticated animals, revolving in a cage which we have built for ourselves - with its contentions, wranglings, its impossible political leaders, its gurus who exploit our self-conceit and their own with great refinement or rather crudely."​

He couldn't stand obedience, the very kind of obedience Putin demands...

"In obedience there is always fear, and fear darkens the mind."

"Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms."
​

But the best way to understand him better is to listen to a bunch of his talks. Other than that, a good starting point for his overall philosophy is "Think on These Things."

 

[JakeStarkey]

We see the brainwashed sycophants of Putin who say there is no issue here. Putin wants eastern Europe, the Dardanelles, and the oil of the Middle East. They chant that any who opposed his ideas are meanies. Nato stands in Putin's way, and Putin is encouraging and manipulating Trump's anti-Nation stance.

 

[owebo]

Paul Ryan, who thinks Putin is a bad guy, or, Donald Trump, who worships Putin?

Or,Obama who makes back-door deals with Putin?

Or

 

[Tehon]

He maintains a psychological choke-hold over the consciousness of Russians, which is why you see this "support."

Hilarious that you have a Krishnamurti quote in your sig, and seem totally unaware that he would've hated Putin more than anyone else on the planet. Yet you seem to think Putin is just "A-OK." You're a strange one, dude.

You don't understand Krishnamurti.

lol, I read at least 15 of his books in my early 20's. I went through a major Krishnamurti phase. YOU do not understand a damn thing he said, that much is obvious.

Quote me something that supports your claim that he would have hated Putin.

He hated authority, especially extreme authority, as he viewed it as the biggest barrier to achieving psychological freedom. He rejected all authority, and encouraged anyone who would listen to him to do the same. He viewed deeply held religious traditions and political beliefs as barriers, and even taught that they were the beginning stages of violence.

He would've thought Putin and his actions on his people would've been extraordinarily ugly, damaging and aggressive. Aggression was violence, to Krishnamurti. No one would've been able to reach the ultimate state (of when the observer is the observed) in a perpetual state of fear. Russia is actually a great embodiment of being trapped by an external authority, something he was constantly talking about freeing oneself from. The blind following of such a tyrant would've been a huge no-no. Men like Putin are one of the biggest contributors to a "sick society," and only men like Putin can exist in a profoundly sick society. An enlightened population would never allow themselves to be slave to such an authoritarian.

He really hated rigid ideologies and was constantly harping on that. He viewed it as the ultimate source of division. Division leads to violence, and violence leads to wars, according to him.

"All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man."​

Another common theme was "following" someone else. He viewed following 'gurus' or 'leaders' as stemming from fear, and that in doing so, you lose dignity. The "unthinking, unquestioning" following of Putin by Russians would be seen as very degrading to him.

"If you have fear, you are bound by tradition, you follow some leader or guru. When you are bound by tradition, when you are afraid of your husband or your wife, you lose your dignity as an individual human being."​

Everything he taught always came back to attaining psychological freedom. That simply couldn't happen within the culture that Russia has created under a dictator.

"If we depend for our happiness on another, on society or on environment, they become essential to us; we cling to them, and any alteration of these we violently oppose because we depend upon them for our psychological security and comfort."​

He also would've viewed Putin's organized killing of journalists and critics to be "war." And war, to Krishnamurti, was the epitome of all that is disgusting and vile with humanity.

"Organized murder is war, and though we demonstrate against a particular war, the nuclear, or any other kind of war, we have never demonstrated against war."​

Here's another one:

"We are domesticated animals, revolving in a cage which we have built for ourselves - with its contentions, wranglings, its impossible political leaders, its gurus who exploit our self-conceit and their own with great refinement or rather crudely."​

He couldn't stand obedience, the very kind of obedience Putin demands...

"In obedience there is always fear, and fear darkens the mind."

"Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms."
​

But the best way to understand him better is to listen to a bunch of his talks. Other than that, a good starting point for his overall philosophy is "Think on These Things."

There is nothing in your post that you couldn't apply to your own situation here in America. Which is what Krishnamurti taught by the way. That inner knowledge of one's self was the way to outward change of society. He would not have hated Putin any more than he would have hated Obama because those people were out of his own personal control to change as individuals and the hate would have been an interference to his own self fulfillment. For someone who claims to have read extensively of Krishnamurti how is it possible for you not to have grasped his fundamental philosophy?

Jiddu Krishnamurti texts
The world, then, is an extension of yourself. If you as an individual desire to destroy hate, then you as an individual must cease hating. To destroy hate, you must dissociate yourself from hate in all its gross and subtle forms, and so long as you are caught up in it you are part of that world of ignorance and fear. Then the world is an extension of yourself, yourself duplicated and multiplied. The world does not exist apart from the individual. It may exist as an idea, as a state, as a social organization, but to carry out that idea, to make that social or religious organization function, there must be the individual. His ignorance, his greed, his fear, maintain the structure of ignorance, greed, and hate. If the individual changes, can he affect the world, the world of hate, greed, and so on? First make sure, doubly sure, that you, the individual, do not hate. Those who hate have no time for thought; they are consumed with their own intense excitement and with its results. They won't listen to calm, deliberate thought; they are carried away by their own fear; and you cannot help these people, can you, unless you follow their method, which is to force them to listen, but such force is of no avail. Ignorance has its own sorrow. After all, you are listening to me because you are not immediately threatened, but if you were, probably you would not be; you would not be thoughtful. The world is an extension of yourself so long as you are thoughtless, caught up in ignorance, hate, greed, but when you are earnest, thoughtful and aware, there is not only a dissociation from those ugly causes which create pain and sorrow, but also in that understanding there is a completeness, a wholeness.

 

[Skull Pilot]

For a bunch of people (Obammy and the dems) who laughed whan Romney said Russia was still a threat you are all pretty fired up about Putin

Why is that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[ Putin is sure of himself, even if it was making the wrong decision to annex Crimea, he did it.

That would make Adolph Hitler the strongest leader in modern history. I guess now we know the thinking of you AND Trump on what constitutes a strong leader.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For a bunch of people (Obammy and the dems) who laughed whan Romney said Russia was still a threat you are all pretty fired up about Putin

Why is that?

And all of the RWnuts who agreed with Romney but are now Putin's best friends?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In other news, Communists Party USA endorses Hillary

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For a bunch of people (Obammy and the dems) who laughed whan Romney said Russia was still a threat you are all pretty fired up about Putin

Why is that?

The 80s called...

 

[Tehon]

For a bunch of people (Obammy and the dems) who laughed whan Romney said Russia was still a threat you are all pretty fired up about Putin

Why is that?

And all of the RWnuts who agreed with Romney but are now Putin's best friends?

The reversal of positions highlights the absurdity of the claims. I look around and all I see are sheep being led to the slaughter.

 

[nat4900]

For a bunch of people (Obammy and the dems) who laughed whan Romney said Russia was still a threat you are all pretty fired up about Putin

Why is that?

I know that honesty is not your strong suit....BUT there was a hell of a lot more reasons to "laugh" at Romney about, and his stance against Russia was not really one of them.

However I am happy to learn that you TOO are calling Trump's new love affair with Putin, bullshit. Congratulations !!!

 

[Rozman]

I'm sure Trump has a special place in his heart for Bashar al-Assad
and Kim Jong-un .....

Trump does love him them strong leaders and so much want to be just like them.....

 

[nat4900]

It is both ironic and scary to hear Trump's "reasons" for praising Putin.......Trump states:.. 'If [Putin] says great things about me, I'm going to say great things about him.' ........In other words, any despot in the world who wants to BUY Trump's approval, can simply make a nice comment about Trump's comb-over hairstyle, and VOILA, that dictator is a new "ally."