OK anti-abortion ultrasound un-Constitutional

[g5000]

The medical personnel also look at it, and they do know what they're seeing. Which means they will catch it if the age of the fetus and the declared age are different.

There is absolutely no medical reason for requiring the doctor to show the fetus to the mother and to require the doctor to point out all the characteristics of the fetus to her. The intent of that requirement is very clear. It is emotional blackmail. Nothing more and nothing less.

Especially in cases where the woman is so early in her pregnancy that a probe is required. There is no sound medical reasoning in such a case which leads to the conclusion that you have to be sure it is within the legal limit to be aborted.

BTW, there are more deaths from abortion. Even the clinicians say abortion MIGHT be safer than childbirth...but they don't know.

Because when women go into the hospital 2 weeks later with raging systemic infections, kidney failure, or hemorrhage, "abortion" is not put on the death certificate under "cause of death".

You did not read the CDC link. They take all of that into consideration.

The facts are clear that maternal deaths during childbirth dwarf the number of maternal deaths from abortion.

Anything else is rather sick wishful thinking on your part.

.

 

[Dragonlady]

No, late term abortions are not extremely rare. PP, Guttmachers and the CDC all admit they don't have statistics because they are not required to maintain records, and the records they do keep are not accurate.

The United States is not the ONLY country in the world. Other countries were abortion is fully legal and accessible DO keep accurate statistics on late terms abortion and there is no country in the world where late term abortions make up more than 1% of all abortions performed.

So you're wrong when you say there are no statistic, there are no reliable statistics for late term abortions in the United States, but there are very reliable statistics for every other country in which abortion is legal.

When asked, nearly half of the women who had abortions after 20 weeks said that lack of access to abortion is the reason why they had a late term abortion.

If the rate of late term abortions in the United States of America is higher than that of the rest of the world, it's because you right wing fanatics make it so hard for women to obtain cheap birth control or legal abortions.

Prohibition on abortion isn't about murdering babies, it's punishing and shaming women who just want to have sex for fun. That's why you use false images of babies torn apart in your propaganda and harass them going into abortion clinics. You don't care about the babies once they're born, only while they are in utero.

If you really cared about the babies at all, you would want social programs to encourage women not to have abortions and generous allowances to let poor women stay home with their babies. The right wing is all about mothers staying home with their children as being the best option, unless the mothers are poor in which case they are social parasites if they stay home with their children.

I think that in most cases, abortion does more harm than good and I have never had an abortion, nor would I have. I made that choice a long time ago and I have slept sound in my bed knowing that no one would ever force me to undergo an abortion I believe is wrong.

My oldest daughter gave birth to her oldest son when she was 16. I supported her decision to have the baby because that was her choice and because she too believes that abortion is wrong. I would have supported her decision had she decided not to continue the pregnancy too because it was her choice to make, not mine.

You see how pro-choice works. We are a family who believes that abortion is wrong and as a result, no one in our family has had an abortion. Our beliefs have been tested because we've dealt with unplanning pregnancies by giving birth to and raising children we like to call "surprises" (a surprise is something you didn't know you wanted until you got it, versus an "accident" which is something unpleasant you wished had never happened).

If you are truly "pro-life" you must not just oppose abortion, but also be opposed to the death penalty in all cases (I am) and opposed to ever killing someone in a war (I am not - some wars are necessary in the face of unprovoked agression). In other words, Quakers are the only truly Pro-Life people I have ever met. And no Quaker would ever try to impose their beliefs on you. I have great respect for Quaker's.

So cut the "sanctity of life" bullshit propoganda. You anti-abortionists are the most woman hating, misogynistic bunch of hypocrites I have ever met. I met a woman like you on a train one time. She was out in front of the Scott clinic parading up and down with her photos of dismembered bloodied fetuses, and she believed that women who had abortions should be jailed. She was also infertile and she was enraged that women were killing babies she would give anything to be able to have.

If you are that fanatically opposed to someone else having the right to control their own body and make decisions about their families, and to make those decisions based on their own religion and spiritual beliefs, abortion is not your problem lady.

My body, my choice.

 

[koshergrl]

When we are talking about the US stats, I'm talking about US stats. Not Netherlands.

Go back to your corner.

I didn't read the rest of your drivel. I've no doubt you brought up all the logical fallacies that baby killers always do...the death penalty, child abuse, hunger, the price of tea in China, starvation, how pro-lifers must not voice an opinion about abortion unless they adopt all the neglected chidlren of the world, and cute little kittens. None has anything at all to do with abortion.

 

[AmyNation]

The #1 cause of late term abortion is fetal defects. As it stands now a number of states have already outlawed late term abortion.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, provide the evidence.

 

[koshergrl]

"Official abortion statistics are often low due to incomplete reporting. In the United States, for example, not all states mandate such reporting. Even in those states that require or encourage reporting of abortion statistics, this reporting is incomplete (as demonstrated by higher numbers reported to abortion advocacy organizations). "

Abortion statistics and other data

 

[koshergrl]

"In contrast, other organizations that provide estimates of abortion statistics may be motivated to inflate the numbers. Currently, the Alan Guttmacher Institute is an important source for estimates of both legal and illegal abortions worldwide. AGI is an extension of an organization engaged in intense political lobbying for the completely unrestrained practice of abortion. High abortion rates are in their political (and financial) interests for a number of reasons. For example, high numbers of illegal abortions are an element of their rationalization for legalized abortion.
Thus, when AGI estimates high rates of illegal abortions in the developing world these estimates bear scrutiny. Many such estimates are based on limited surveys. Some such surveys are limited to urban areas, which are not representative of rural areas. Other studies use compound assumptions to develop a figure for illegal abortions from data on hospitalizations for miscarriages."

Abortion statistics and other data

 

[geauxtohell]

Another one bites the dust.

When, oh when, will the GOP give up pandering to the Evangelical base and start doing something MEANINGFUL for the country?

What a waste of time and money.


Durant Daily Democrat - Okla court says abortion laws unconstitutional

Forcing a woman to have a wand shoved up her hoo ha violates the State Constitution of Oklahoma?

That is just shocking....

 

[AmyNation]

Yeah, provide the evidence.

Why bother? You know I will post facts, then you will say "nauh! Because states aren't required, yadda yadda yadda!"

Why go through the trouble with you? You believe what you want and don't let silly things like facts alter your perspective.

 

[g5000]

Sources of data on abortion-related deaths included national and state vital records, maternal mortality review committees, surveys, private citizens and groups, media reports, health-care providers, medical examiners' reports, and computerized searches of full-text newspaper/print media databases. For each death possibly related to an induced abortion or an abortion of unknown type, clinical records and autopsy reports were requested and reviewed by two clinically experienced medical epidemiologists to determine the cause of death and whether the death was abortion related. Each abortion-related death was then categorized as legal induced, illegal induced, spontaneous, or unknown (whether induced or spontaneous)

Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2003



There is no organization out there which claims the maternal mortality rate for abortions exceeds the maternal mortality rate for childbirth.

Aside from the overwhelming evidence, it is just common sense that childbirth is far more dangerous to the mother than a legal abortion.


Making up fantasies that are contrary to facts does not serve the pro-life cause. They erode and undermine it.



.

 

[koshergrl]

I wouldn't know, you've never posted facts heretofore.

 

[koshergrl]

Why don't you give it a whirl.

 

[koshergrl]

Sources of data on abortion-related deaths included national and state vital records, maternal mortality review committees, surveys, private citizens and groups, media reports, health-care providers, medical examiners' reports, and computerized searches of full-text newspaper/print media databases. For each death possibly related to an induced abortion or an abortion of unknown type, clinical records and autopsy reports were requested and reviewed by two clinically experienced medical epidemiologists to determine the cause of death and whether the death was abortion related. Each abortion-related death was then categorized as legal induced, illegal induced, spontaneous, or unknown (whether induced or spontaneous)

Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2003



There is no organization out there which claims the maternal mortality rate for abortions exceeds the maternal mortality rate for childbirth.

Aside from the overwhelming evidence, it is just common sense that childbirth is far more dangerous to the mother than a legal abortion.


Making up fantasies that are contrary to facts does not serve the pro-life cause. They erode and undermine it.



.

They don't claim it because there aren't any reliable statistics.

Just as there are no reliable stats for abortion deaths, late term abortions, or abortion causes.

 

[koshergrl]

Because PP doesn't have to keep track.

"
The Tribune found:
•State regulators have documented between 7,000 and 17,000 fewer abortions a year than a national research group found in Illinois.
•This reporting is the only tool Illinois authorities have to monitor some abortion providers, yet regulators may be allowing doctors and clinics to operate off the books. Regulators collect reports from 26 providers, but the abortion rights research group has identified 37 providers doing business in the state.
•Also unknown to officials are the types of abortion-related problems experienced by women. Nearly 4,000 reports of abortion complications involving Illinois residents in 2009 were missing the required description.
•Health care providers who intentionally fail to submit accurate and complete reports are committing a criminal act, and a failure to report abortion complications is grounds for revoking their licenses, but the Department of Public Health has never sought disciplinary action against a provider.
Kelly Jakubek, an agency spokeswoman, said in a written response that it was the responsibility of abortion doctors to ensure they comply with the mandatory reporting requirement.
Regulators don't respond to the reports in any way, she said, because they view the information as serving statistical purposes only.
"It's outrageous," declared Maurice Stevenson, whose wife died in 2002 from infection following an abortion at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Chicago. "These procedures, complications and deaths should be public record."

Critics contend that accurate government accounting is essential, especially with a politically charged issue such as abortion in which both sides push information to further their agendas.
A review of malpractice cases revealed other abortion-related complications in Illinois — with no way of knowing whether they were reported to the state.
For example, in 2002, after an area woman's uterus was torn in an abortion she began hemorrhaging, went into cardiac shock and was hospitalized for three weeks. Several years later, a mother of three experienced seizure symptoms and slipped into a coma following her abortion at a city clinic. And in 2009, a teenage girl suffered respiratory and cardiac arrest and died immediately following her abortion in a northern suburb, according to court records.
The state Legislature included mandatory reporting in the 1975 Illinois Abortion Law, a compilation of guidelines enacted after the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade.
Abortion providers succeeded in stripping away many of the law's other requirements, but a 1993 legal settlement between providers and the state retained mandatory reporting "to better protect the health of women undergoing these procedures."

State's abortion records woefully incomplete - Chicago Tribune

 

[koshergrl]

"The New York-based Guttmacher Institute, an abortion rights research organization, conducts its own accounting across the country. Its information is widely viewed as more accurate than what is collected by state regulators because the organization makes extensive efforts to identify abortion doctors and follow up with them.

It was Guttmacher that located 37 providers in Illinois in 2008, and it is Guttmacher that has consistently counted thousands more abortions per year than the number recorded by state regulators.
A Tribune examination of the reporting data collected by the state revealed missing information.
Providers often did not specify, as required, whether a complication was a tear of the uterus or another specific problem.
In certain medical malpractice cases reviewed by the Tribune, women said they were never informed by their provider that the abortion was unsuccessful and later underwent challenging pregnancies, painful deliveries and other complications."

State's abortion records woefully incomplete - Page 2 - Chicago Tribune

 

[koshergrl]

"The federal government also identified gaps in Illinois' abortion surveillance system, saying that more than 15 percent of reports in 2007 did not specify how far along pregnancies were and what type of procedure was used."

State's abortion records woefully incomplete - Page 2 - Chicago Tribune

 

[koshergrl]

And that's just Illinois.

Imagine how interesting the records are in states that aren't required to report ANYTHING.

 

[NLT]

Are you honestly saying we don't need accurate numbers because you just know there aren't very many late term abortions?

As I said, you guys aren't interested in women's health at all. It's all about killing babies. You don't want oversight of the abortionists. Which is funny, because you insist we need legalized abortion so we CAN provide oversight and increase safety. Essentially you're about making back alley abortions legit, and protecting them.

Accurate numbers would prove that you were wrong.

^^^^^Loves to abort babies...only when they are alive and kicking.

 

[AmyNation]

Why don't you give it a whirl.

Late term abortions are expensive, more hazardous to the mothers health and are only performed at a handful of places in our country.

They make up less than 1% of abortions performed, and are largely do to fetal abnormalities.


Once again, you come in and derail a thread with your spam. This thread is not about late term abortion, it's about the government forcibly probing and shaming women who seek an abortion. Which is ok with you, because you have extreme views on abortion.

 

[koshergrl]

That's not proof of your claim. In fact, your own repeated inanities are spam.

It isn't spam to back up a person's claims with real factoids, honey. That's called research, and data. It's what adults use when they make claims, in the adult world.