Ocean Acidification pHraud

[Billy_Bob]

Evidence could. How about you present some.

Here is evidence of decreasing ocean alkalinity off Hawaii. Do you accept this?

0.00018 Ph drop in one location, near a dam volcano... and this is some how relevant to the whole world?

Excuse me while i laugh my ass off.. You do realize that swings of + or - 0.5 Ph are commonplace as ocean cycles warm and cool?

More alarmist clap trap fear-mongering..

 

[cnm]

Apparently for you, Billy_Bob, evidence is evidence there is no evidence. But as a matter of curiosity, from where do you get '0.00018 Ph drop'?

 

[Crick]

Did that data (the pH showing a ~0.03 decrease or the pCO2 or the CO2) look cyclical to you Billy Boy?

 

[IanC]

name a trend, I can find it for you.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Apparently for you, Billy_Bob, evidence is evidence there is no evidence. But as a matter of curiosity, from where do you get '0.00018 Ph drop'?

Obviously you failed to read the paper or do the math...

 

[Crick]

Let's hear it, then, cause that number does not appear in the paper and could not be read from the graph.

And, again, did the pH data look cyclical to you?

 

[cnm]

Apparently for you, Billy_Bob, evidence is evidence there is no evidence. But as a matter of curiosity, from where do you get '0.00018 Ph drop'?

Obviously you failed to read the paper or do the math...

Plucked it from your arse, eh? Don't blame you.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, that is Billy Boob's favorite source.

Odd how we have the deniars flapping yap about no acidification, while about 100% of the papers in the peer reviewed journals are stating that acidification is happening and affecting the food chain.

 

[Crick]

Give the man a chance.

C'mon Billy Boy, make us all look stupid. Show us a pH change of 0.00018 in that link. Show us the math we failed to do.

 

[IanC]

how odd....

I found this graph in an old Willis article on pH. the original reference was to the AGU but it was no longer available. so I googled it. I thought I had found a copy on a blog about quantitative palaeoecology but it wasnt there.

Certainly, Wallace’s “compelling” analysis is junk. I hope the rest of his PhD is better than this pHoolishess.

UPDATE: I’ve replaced the figures after finding a glitch in my analyses.

apparently that's what you got with a few million data points before Feely modeled pH.

from Willis-

The final thing I learned from this study is that creatures in the ocean live happily in a wide range of alkalinities, from a high of over 8.0 down to almost neutral. As a result, the idea that a slight change in alkalinity will somehow knock the ocean dead doesn’t make any sense. By geological standards, the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is currently quite low. It has been several times higher in the past, with the inevitable changes in the oceanic pH … and despite that, the life in the ocean continued to flourish.

My conclusion? To mis-quote Mark Twain, “The reports of the ocean’s death have been greatly exaggerated.”

 

[jc456]

Well, that is Billy Boob's favorite source.

Odd how we have the deniars flapping yap about no acidification, while about 100% of the papers in the peer reviewed journals are stating that acidification is happening and affecting the food chain.

what about the other journals that aren't affiliated with the good old boys peer group? You really expect that in a peer group they'd actually question each other? you're so full of the lie that you can't understand how utterly stupid that comment was about peer review.

 

[IanC]

how odd....

I found this graph in an old Willis article on pH. the original reference was to the AGU but it was no longer available. so I googled it. I thought I had found a copy on a blog about quantitative palaeoecology but it wasnt there.

Certainly, Wallace’s “compelling” analysis is junk. I hope the rest of his PhD is better than this pHoolishess.

UPDATE: I’ve replaced the figures after finding a glitch in my analyses.

apparently that's what you got with a few million data points before Feely modeled pH.

from Willis-

The final thing I learned from this study is that creatures in the ocean live happily in a wide range of alkalinities, from a high of over 8.0 down to almost neutral. As a result, the idea that a slight change in alkalinity will somehow knock the ocean dead doesn’t make any sense. By geological standards, the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is currently quite low. It has been several times higher in the past, with the inevitable changes in the oceanic pH … and despite that, the life in the ocean continued to flourish.

My conclusion? To mis-quote Mark Twain, “The reports of the ocean’s death have been greatly exaggerated.”

I may have screwed up. This is probably the Hawaii data.

 

[mamooth]

There have been two recent papers on the PTB (Permian-Triassic Boundary) extinction event of 252 million years ago. Both point the finger at sudden ocean acidification following the sudden flood of carbon going in to the oceans from the Siberian Traps eruptions.

M. O. Clarkson1, S. A. Kasemann, R. A. Wood, T. M. Lenton, S. J. Daines, S. Richoz, F. Ohnemueller, A. Meixner, S. W. Poulton, E. T. Tipper. "Ocean acidification and the Permo-Triassic mass extinction." Science 10 April 2015: Vol. 348 no. 6231 pp. 229-232 Science Magazine Sign In (subs req'd)

Galina P. Nestell, Merlynd K. Nestell, Brooks B. Ellwood, Bruce R. Wardlaw, Asish R. Basu, Nilotpal Ghosh, Luu Thi Phuong Lan, Harry D. Rowe, Andrew Hunt, Jonathan H. Tomkin, Kenneth T. Ratcliffe. "High influx of carbon in walls of agglutinated foraminifers during the Permian–Triassic transition in global oceans." International Geology Review, 2015; 57 (4): 411 An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (subs req'd)

 

[Crick]

what about the other journals that aren't affiliated with the good old boys peer group? You really expect that in a peer group they'd actually question each other? you're so full of the lie that you can't understand how utterly stupid that comment was about peer review.

What other journals would that be jc?

 

[Old Rocks]

I think jc if refering to those wonderful scientfiic journals, Briebart, National Enquirer, and Weekly World.

 

[jc456]

what about the other journals that aren't affiliated with the good old boys peer group? You really expect that in a peer group they'd actually question each other? you're so full of the lie that you can't understand how utterly stupid that comment was about peer review.

What other journals would that be jc?

The more you write, the more I question your sincerity toward science. I see you believe that only one side of a problem exists and if one doesn't agree with the path of that side, opposing thoughts automatically becomes junk. I believe Judith Curry is well known and I believe is working on challenging the current peered groups on your side. Her name is now being muddied in this forum just because she is positioning herself. How is that? How does she loose credibility only because she believes differently than those peer groups?

 

[Crick]

Judith Curry has been discussed long before this topic appeared. She has some credibility on the topic. For instance, she poo-poos the idea that NOAA, CRU, et al are manipulating the temperature data to make things look worse. But she has a large number of climate scientists opposing her ideas. Curry has not published any peer reviewed information about ocean acidification because, as she admits, "I don’t have much expertise on this [ocean acidification]". She has, however, started a thread on the topic on her website (Ocean acidification discussion thread Climate Etc.) where she puts the views of Scott Doney, "Senior Scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Woods Hole MA against those of Craig Idso, "founder, former president and current chairman of the board of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change". Craig has a PhD in Geography and he and his organization argue that increase atmospheric CO2 is beneficial. He strenuously rejects the conclusions of the IPCC. More detailed biographical information for both men may be had at Judith Curry's website via the link above.

I would suggest you read the contents of the thread and Curry's comments. I do not think you will find her in agreement with you or Westwall or SSDD on this topic.

 

[jc456]

Judith Curry has been discussed long before this topic appeared. She has some credibility on the topic. For instance, she poo-poos the idea that NOAA, CRU, et al are manipulating the temperature data to make things look worse. But she has a large number of climate scientists opposing her ideas. Curry has not published any peer reviewed information about ocean acidification because, as she admits, "I don’t have much expertise on this [ocean acidification]". She has, however, started a thread on the topic on her website (Ocean acidification discussion thread Climate Etc.) where she puts the views of Scott Doney, "Senior Scientist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Woods Hole MA against those of Craig Idso, "founder, former president and current chairman of the board of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change". Craig has a PhD in Geography and he and his organization argue that increase atmospheric CO2 is beneficial. He strenuously rejects the conclusions of the IPCC. More detailed biographical information for both men may be had at Judith Curry's website via the link above.

I would suggest you read the contents of the thread and Curry's comments. I do not think you will find her in agreement with you or Westwall or SSDD on this topic.

There you go again why would she put anything in front of a peer review? She doesn't agree with them! She will be invited to the house of representative for discussion on climate we will see what comes out of that hearing.

 

[Crick]

Do you not speak English? I am telling you to go to HER website and read HER comments on the matter. Your comments and those of Westwall and SSDD ARE NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH HERS... AT ALL.

 

[jc456]

Do you not speak English? I am telling you to go to HER website and read HER comments on the matter. Your comments and those of Westwall and SSDD ARE NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH HERS... AT ALL.

Draft APS Statement on Climate Change Climate Etc.

From her site! Mate

Edit: perhaps you should go to her site and actually read. Do you even know the site name?