Obamacare and the price of gorceries

[DiamondDave]

Unless someone is a health food fanatic, anyone bellying up to a salad bar isnt going to read all the fine print above the item anyway.

You want consumers to be more aware of whether an item is healthy or not use the KISS method. Just use large red (stop and think about putting that in your container and subsequently your gut), yellow (take some, but not too much) and green (eat as much as you want) stickers above the item.

And that makes sense because nobody has food allergies.

You allergy is the government's problem or responsibility?? It is the problem or the responsibility of the store or restaurant??

No.. it is up to you to ask, research, or whatever else.. not up to government to force others to give you the information up front, whether you need it, ask for it, or not

 

[Stephanie]

^Perfect example of an uneducated consumer.

Pine nuts in pasta sauce is like mustard in a cheesecake.

Sure, some people might like it, but it would be on the outside boundary of any normalcy, or it would be some politically correct common-sense-defying crap, that typifies hypocrites.

Or it would be Italian. Bigoted, much?

Now someone is a bigot over friggen food?
dear gawd

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is funny that republicans are blaming the current administration for putting labels on grocery story items. This is something that has been going on for 30 years or so, through both republican and democratic administrations. The goal has been to educate people about the food they are eating. Education is a good thing.

Salad bars are not healthful. They are generally high fat. People think they are eating a healthful meal because it is 'salad,' but much of the food in a salad bar is high fat and high starch. A salad bar salad can be as high fat and unhealthful as a Big Mac with a large fries and milkshake. Good health care goes hand in hand with good medical care. If people bring on disease and illness through personal habits, they bring up the cost of health care. When that health care is everyone's responsibility through taxation, then everyone has the right to try to encourage people to live a healthier lifestyle.

One reason insurance companies failed in providing low cost health insurance is because so many people needed the insurance to pay for illness and disease brought on by poor lifestyle choices. The majority of right wing conservatives do not have higher education and high incomes. Those are the type of people who make poor health care choices. Then everyone pays for it. There is another thread here about Atlas Shrugged and 'personal responsibility.' But the majority of right wing conservatives do not take personal responsibility for their health and expect insurance companies or the government to foot the bill for the ensuing health care costs. Republicans like to think they are the ones paying for things like abortion or birth control or health care of minorities on welfare. The truth is that most of the money going to health care is because of people's poor lifestyle choices bringing on disease and illness, that the cost of abortions is miniscule compared to that, and that the majority of people on welfare are white and as often as not conservative republicans, so the majority of your taxes going to support welfare is going to whites, as many conservative republican whites as whites who may be democrats, if these people even bother to vote, which most don't. Uneducated, poor people are the least likely to vote.

What is really funny is you think I am a Republican.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Salad bars are not healthful. They are generally high fat. People think they are eating a healthful meal because it is 'salad,' but much of the food in a salad bar is high fat and high starch. Good health care goes hand in hand with good medical care. If people bring on disease and illness through personal habits, they bring up the cost of health care. When that health care is everyone's responsibility through taxation, then everyone has the right to try to encourage people to live a healthier lifestyle.

One reason insurance companies failed in providing low cost health insurance is because so many people needed the insurance to pay for illness and disease brought on by poor lifestyle choices. The majority of right wing conservatives do not have higher education and high incomes. Those are the type of people who make poor health care choices. Then everyone pays for it. There is another thread here about Atlas Shrugged and 'personal responsibility.' But the majority of right wing conservatives do not take personal responsibility for their health and expect insurance companies or the government to foot the bill for the ensuing health care costs. Republicans like to think they are the ones paying for things like abortion or birth control or health care of minorities on welfare. The truth is that most of the money going to health care is because of people's poor lifestyle choices bringing on disease and illness, that the cost of abortions is miniscule compared to that, and that the majority of people on welfare are white and as often as not conservative republicans.

100% correct.

Our diets affect our health in myriad ways. The deep-fried sugar and white flour diets we suck down in abundance every day is killing us, yet expensive technology exists to counter the terrible food we eat and the diseases they cause and allow us to live longer. People gotta pay for their poor lifestyles. Unfortunately, healthy people are paying for the people with poor lifestyles too. And the Republicans are the first to ***** if any attempt is made to curb the crap diets kids are eating these days.

All the more reason to get the government out of health care. Just wait until they kill someone because they have diet recommendations wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is a strange world we live in where people attack the idea of transparent food labeling.

Really, QW, maybe it is time to accept that Obama was re-elected. You get to vote again in a couple of years, and you can vote against the food labels if that is the key issue for you.

It is a strange world we live in when you think that me pointing out the absurd costs of stupid regulations means I am attacking something entirely different.Do you often get tickets because you confuse the Stop sign for something else?

Regulations cost money. Driving up the cost of a salad at the grocery store is not going to encourage people to eat healthy when they can go and get a bag of chips for less.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

when did that become the governments Job? or any of you people business WHAT OTHERS EAT?

It is the government's job to ensure people can make informed choices about what they buy and eat.

Transparent food packaging means that you will know what you buy when you buy it.

Since when?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe in your country it is because you are all too stupid to know and make you own choices

Possibly - but then my country enjoys considerably higher levels of education and literacy than yours does.

Let me explain how this works - you want to buy a pack of pasta sauce, but your daughter is allergic to pine nuts.

With this kind of law, pine nuts will be listed clearly on the label. If it is only trace elements, the label will tell you that too.

I'm not sure why this would be a majot problem for you.

we already have labels on food. but of course you don't live here so what would you know..And if a person is buying from a deli I suppose they could JUST Ask for that information

Not according to Obamacare, now we need to know how many calories everything we buy has, even the stuff that is good for us. And, since the regulations actually require each business to test the food themselves, they can't just go to a nook and look up that a tomatoslice has 5 calories.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Stephanie -

The labels spare you having to ask, and as you may know, asking in a supermarket rarely works because te staff have no idea what is in the pasta sauce.

The law ensures all labels follow the same format and rules, so that it is easy to read and understand the labels.

I still don't see why this is a problem.

The pasta sauce is already labeled, which you would know if you knew what you are talking about. Maybe you should wait until somebody posts a thread about Vietnam before you start talking like you understand the issues.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Most grocery stores already do it because CONSUMERS want it. Look at your own store, dummies, and see for yourself.

Registered Dietician Jane Andrews showed us what Wegmans is already doing to share nutrition information with customers. She's in charge of nutrition and product labeling. Most foods have the calorie count already stated.

Ray Levato: “How much will all this labeling add to the price is what I think consumers want to know?”
Jane Andrews: “That's a great question. In fact, we've already been doing this for the past ten years. We see this as a cost of doing business. If you want to serve customers who care about health, you'll provide nutrition information because they ask.”

Could placing nutrition labels on prepared foods at Wegmans cost you more? | www.WHEC.com

What are the prices at Wegman's compared to Lucky or Safeway? Does the fact that Wegman's is a high end grocery store that sees this as customer service somehow prove that other grocery stores, with lower profit margins, can afford it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Saigon, it raises the prices of food as this will be passed onto the customer.

what don't you get about that

I get that - but the increase is infintesimal, and the labeling also saves you money, because you won't buy a product you end up having to throw out if there are allergy issues.

There will be some set up costs, agreed, but after that - labels don't cost much to print.

The increase to test every single menu item at an outside laboratory is infinitesimal? What fracking planet do you live on? They have to pay the lab, which has to pay the person doing the testing, insurance, taxes, and all the other costs of business. It is a little bit more complicated than sticking a piece of paper on a sandwich.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, No, No! You guys don't get it! We do not want the government helping us make informed decisions when it comes to food choices! We want to be told ONLY that which the food producers and resellers want us to know. They have our best interests in mind at all times.

I do not need the government's help to make informed decisions. There is very little the government can tell an intelligent person that they cannot find out without the hassle of dealing with bureaucrats.

 

[Blooper]

Unless someone is a health food fanatic, anyone bellying up to a salad bar isnt going to read all the fine print above the item anyway.

You want consumers to be more aware of whether an item is healthy or not use the KISS method. Just use large red (stop and think about putting that in your container and subsequently your gut), yellow (take some, but not too much) and green (eat as much as you want) stickers above the item.

And that makes sense because nobody has food allergies.

You allergy is the government's problem or responsibility?? It is the problem or the responsibility of the store or restaurant??

No.. it is up to you to ask, research, or whatever else.. not up to government to force others to give you the information up front, whether you need it, ask for it, or not

Yes, it is. It's the government's responsibility to prevent the PS from failing to disclose potentially life-saving information. I'm of the belief that a food allergy shouldn't restrict you from eating out and contributing to your local economy.

And, like it or not, social Darwinism isn't an applicable policy measure. People make mistakes, and we survive by helping each other out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Decus -

it would be a shame for people like me to see their deli section close.

Why would your Deli section close?

Do you imagine that countries like France and Italy don't have delis?

Do countries like France demand that the deli provide detailed information about every single ingredient in a sandwich? These regulations would actually require the deli to print out each ingredient and its cietary information for every single sandwich they make. Pizza restaurants have been arguing about this for a couple of years now, the only way to make this economical is to stop allowing customers to add, or take out, items on their pizza. That only makes sense if you buy frozen pizzas. It makes even less sense to go into a deli and pick up a prepackaged sandwich that the law prohibits people from asking to have the cheese removed from if they can't eat cheese.

You really should stop assuming you know what the **** I am talking about simply because you are from a country that already does the same thing we do now.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

100% correct.

Our diets affect our health in myriad ways. The deep-fried sugar and white flour diets we suck down in abundance every day is killing us, yet expensive technology exists to counter the terrible food we eat and the diseases they cause and allow us to live longer. People gotta pay for their poor lifestyles. Unfortunately, healthy people are paying for the people with poor lifestyles too. And the Republicans are the first to ***** if any attempt is made to curb the crap diets kids are eating these days.

when did that become the governments Job? or any of you people business WHAT OTHERS EAT?

It is our business what other people eat because poor eating habits lead to health problems which cause higher health care costs which everyone pays for. When people think they are making a healthy choice by going to a salad bar, and when, in fact, it isn't a healthy choice, they should know about it. A salad bar meal can be higher in fat and starches than a Big Mac meal. People don't realize that.

That only works if you pay for my health care. I vehemently object to that, but you, in your infinite wisdom, see it as a necessity. I am not going to let you tell me what to eat, no matter how much you whine about it costing money I didn't want you to pay in the first place.

 

[Stephanie]

And that makes sense because nobody has food allergies.

You allergy is the government's problem or responsibility?? It is the problem or the responsibility of the store or restaurant??

No.. it is up to you to ask, research, or whatever else.. not up to government to force others to give you the information up front, whether you need it, ask for it, or not

Yes, it is. It's the government's responsibility to prevent the PS from failing to disclose potentially life-saving information. I'm of the belief that a food allergy shouldn't restrict you from eating out and contributing to your local economy.

And, like it or not, social Darwinism isn't an applicable policy measure. People make mistakes, and we survive by helping each other out.

yeah ok, like they want to ban large soda cups?
so instead of buying one soda you just BUY TWO, but hey, all any two bit person elected knows what is best....
gawd help this country if this is what people believe

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is our business what other people eat because poor eating habits lead to health problems which cause higher health care costs which everyone pays for. When people think they are making a healthy choice by going to a salad bar, and when, in fact, it isn't a healthy choice, they should know about it. A salad bar meal can be higher in fat and starches than a Big Mac meal. People don't realize that.

You see people, liberals want in all of your business until it come to ABORTIONS
scratch a liberal find a FASCIST

How many right wing anti abortion people are ready to pay the taxes for raising unwanted children in the foster care or welfare system or for the special education classes they need because they grow up in abusive homes or for the legal system costs when they break the law or go to prison? The irony is that you are the fascists. How many of you are willing to pay the higher insurance costs and higher taxes for health care when people who abuse their bodies need health care? You can't have it both ways.

The irony is you insist you have a right to dictate to me what I do with my body while insisting that I cannot reciprocate.

Think about that for a while, then come back, apologize, and demand an end to Obamacare.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is our business what other people eat because poor eating habits lead to health problems which cause higher health care costs which everyone pays for. ...

This is why libertarians are opposed to safety nets and state welfare. It's not because we are stingy and don't want to help people in need. It's because these programs are inevitably used by fascists as an excuse to control people.

If you don't like that 'your tax dollars' are going to finance someone else's bad habits, then change that law that makes that happen. Don't use it as an excuse to micro-manage the lives of others.

Using your logic, there should be no seatbelts or seatbelt laws, no laws about using cell phones while driving, no restrictions on alcohol consumption before driving, no restrictions on drugs, no child labor laws, no fireworks laws, no laws of any kind involving personal safety. No warnings on cigarettes. No luggage checks when you fly. No laws requiring children to go to school. No, it would all be infringing on and micro managing the lives of others. At the same time you don't want to pay the taxes to support anything that has to pick up after people who cause mayhem in our society. You want one of those societies like Victorian England or France before the revolution where the majority lived in poverty, abuse, squalor and desperation, like animals, while the few at the top lived in luxury and indolence. Do you actually think in a society like that the likes of you would be at the top? The vast majority of all of us would be at the bottom, including you guys. Putting information labels on food isn't controling anyone; it is educating them. How on Earth do you go from putting information labels on food to fascism? Remarkable.

Do you understand the difference between assuming risk for oneself by not wearing seat belts, and causing risk to others by driving wearing a blindfold? Insisting that no one get behind the wheel of a car and drive on a public road if they are wearing a blindfold reduces the risk to others, and is, barely, justifiable because of that. Telling me that not wearing a seat belt puts others in danger is just going to make you look even more desperate than you already do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's very tough for me to understand how folks can stand up against information.

"No ... no ... I'd rather remain stupid ....."

REALLY????

That probably isn't the only thing that is hard for you, I bet you have trouble tying your shoes.

This is not about the information, this is about the government requiring a separate label for every custom made sandwich that lists every item in the sandwich and the nutritional value of those items.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is our business what other people eat because poor eating habits lead to health problems which cause higher health care costs which everyone pays for. When people think they are making a healthy choice by going to a salad bar, and when, in fact, it isn't a healthy choice, they should know about it. A salad bar meal can be higher in fat and starches than a Big Mac meal. People don't realize that.

You see people, liberals want in all of your business until it come to ABORTIONS
scratch a liberal find a FASCIST

Actually, we'd just rather have have elected officials make decisions than an unaccountable PS.

So it's absolutely the government's job to ensure disclosure of potentially necessary information.

That explains why Obama is making more and more of what the government does available for us to peruse every day.

Obama Finds Limits to Government Transparency Amid Openness Vow - Bloomberg

Ooops.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's the margins that some chains operate at. If the cost to implement these new information requirements is accurate and I am taking the the article's statement at face value, then the possibility of closing a section of the store is a real possibility. To provide you with an example I know fairly well and that you might understand, in Europe hypermarkets generate a significant percentage of their revenues on listing fees - brands have to pay the stores a fee (not a small amount) to be on their shelves. With hypermarkets they also have to agree to a number of product promotions each year. On top of that, brands often have to agree to virtually break-even pricing because hypermarkets are ruthless negotiators and offer large volume sales to the brands.
.

I take your point, but the costs incurred by supermarkets will probably be infinitesimal. I can't imagine any business closing because of this.

I remember when VAT was introduced here, the wailing about businesses closing was hysterical for months. In reality, no businesses closed - they just adapted. The costs were not great at all.

Consumers should support this, and I imagine most do and will.

Can you imagine being misinformed? How about flat out wrong?

Let's see if you can explain how a requirement to list every ingredient, along with calorie and fat content, on every custom made sandwich, won't add to the costs of doing business.