Obama willing to go "more than half-way" on Florida and Michigan

[Ravi]

McCain has been having an easy ride of late. All of that will change in about a month or two. Then we will begin to have a better sense of the candidates strengths against one another.

Who won Florida in 2004 without an easy ride?

 

[Jon]

Yes, he'll probably win Missouri. But the point remains that there are other swing States, and I guarantee you the DNC is cognizant of what it could mean to lose the black vote in those places.

What states are we looking at? Even in a state with as large a black population as Alabama and Georgia, Clinton polls better than Obama. And Obama WON those states in the primary.

Clinton is also more likely to win states like Kentucky, Nevada, and Arkansas.

 

[Steerpike]

What states are we looking at? Even in a state with as large a black population as Alabama and Georgia, Clinton polls better than Obama. And Obama WON those states in the primary.

Clinton is also more likely to win states like Kentucky, Nevada, and Arkansas.

Swing states:

NH, PA, AR, FL, WV, V, IA, MI, MO, OH, WI, CO, NV, NM

Polls between now and November are going to change a lot. The DNC has to take into account that it may need every vote it can get in Nov. I don't think alienating a large portion of the base is the way to do it.

To justify giving Hillary the nomination, she would have to make substantial inroads into pledged delegates and popular vote. That just isn't going to happen realistically.

 

[Jeepers]

they were ALL TOLD to come out and vote.

The parties had a major campaign to go out and vote, regardless of what national party was saying that their voices WOULD BE HEARD.....

What was the national party saying?

all news in their states emphasized going out to vote....

What again was the national party saying...

Anyone that was going to vote, voted Jeepers...they had record numbers at their primaries...the message was out that they would be heard...and counted..

Pure conjecture and they've not been counted as of yet have they.. Its not a fair election because we really dont know how many did not turn out to vote because they saw it as a lesson in futility... Since the polls show that obama voters are smarter than hill's I can see more Obama supporters staying home..

i read the democratic party's sites in these states before their primaries, they had a HUGE EFFORT telling all voters to get out and vote and that their vote would count to determine the Presidency.

Where was all this concern when they were supporting the primary date move....

btw... HILLARY SAID THAT THE VOTES IN BOTH STATES WOULD NOT BE USED IN DETERMINING A NOMINEE... are you cats calling her a flip flopping hypocrite. Kinda makes me wonder which side of any of the issues she will adhere to... she already said she would obliterate Iran and get involved in any conflict between nations in the middle east... I wonder how long it would take for her to flip flop on abortion and healthcare... hell maybe McCain isnt bush term three.. maybe bush term three is a Hill presidency... who knows where she is going to stand on any issue tomorow...Karl Rove is already drawing electorial maps for her

 

[ReillyT]

Who won Florida in 2004 without an easy ride?

Bush won Florida, but I don't understand the significance of your post.

 

[Jon]

NH, PA, AR, FL, WV, V, IA, MI, MO, OH, WI, CO, NV, NM

It's funny, because Clinton won all of those states except Virginia, Missouri, and Wisconsin. You forgot Kentucky, which could go either way depending on the nominee. Clinton won that, easily, too.

Here's a fun game:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/calculator.html

Plug in the states based on what the current polls show. Do McCain versus Obama, and then McCain versus Clinton. See how it turns up for you.

 

[Steerpike]

It's funny, because Clinton won all of those states except Virginia, Missouri, and Wisconsin. You forgot Kentucky, which could go either way depending on the nominee. Clinton won that, easily, too.

Here's a fun game:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/calculator.html

Plug in the states based on what the current polls show. Do McCain versus Obama, and then McCain versus Clinton. See how it turns up for you.

Yeah. Current polls are meaningless though.

The DNC has to look at it from a broader view. You've got one candidate ahead in every marker that counts in terms of deciding the nominee. You want to he DNC to turn that upside down?

I agree that Hillary has a better chance of winning in November, so I'm not arguing that point. But I think it is virtually impossible that the nomination is going to go to her.

 

[Care4all]

What was the national party saying?

What again was the national party saying...

Pure conjecture and they've not been counted as of yet have they.. Its not a fair election because we really dont know how many did not turn out to vote because they saw it as a lesson in futility... Since the polls show that obama voters are smarter than hill's I can see more Obama supporters staying home..

Where was all this concern when they were supporting the primary date move....

btw... HILLARY SAID THAT THE VOTES IN BOTH STATES WOULD NOT BE USED IN DETERMINING A NOMINEE... are you cats calling her a flip flopping hypocrite. Kinda makes me wonder which side of any of the issues she will adhere to... she already said she would obliterate Iran and get involved in any conflict between nations in the middle east... I wonder how long it would take for her to flip flop on abortion and healthcare... hell maybe McCain isnt bush term three.. maybe bush term three is a Hill presidency... who knows where she is going to stand on any issue tomorow...Karl Rove is already drawing electorial maps for her

you are twisting her words on that one jeepers, i read the context of that quote....find any other quote where she has said that she did not WANT the votes of the people of michigan to count.....they were trying to corner her, but not dodd for some reason, on not withdrawing their names....

here is what michigan sent out to all democratic registered voters....

THAT'S ALL that matters....they are citizens of michigan first...it is MICHIGAN'S primary for the democratic party....

florida and michigan ALWAYS KNEW that they would only lose 1/2 of their delegates because this IS WHAT WAS IN THE WRITEN RULES, of which i have shown NUMEROUS TIMES already....

everyone knew they would count....everyone but Obama, it seems, because obama was never, ever going to accept their delegates because no one, hardly anyone, was going to vote for him....THAT was his politiking....thus pulling his name off and pretending there was no seating 1/2 the delegates rule....i digress...

yes, the dem rules committee OVER PUNISHED the states not following the rules, trying to scare all the other states not to change, but the RULES since 2006, writen for this 2008 primary, SAYS SO.....that 1/2 shall be lost only, never does it say all delegates...*

but no one, NO ONE IN THE MEDIA, covered the true story....boosting obama up while squashing hillary....

like i have pointed out, the dnc rules would not give a loss of delegates as the sanction for candidates running ads there, if there never were any delegates to sanction....?

care

here is the michigan thing....it was IMPORTANT for dems to come out and vote, because they neede the turn out for the most delegates to be seated.... YES, DELEGATES to be seated....

i am not crazy here, both states and the citizens within it, were told to ignore what the DNC was saying and get out and vote!

News from
THE MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Jason Moon
517-371-5410
December 10, 2007

MDP Releases Voter Guide To Help Voters Understand Presidential Primary

LANSING – Today the Michigan Democratic Party released a voter guide to help voters understand the January 15, 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary.

“We want every eligible Democratic voter in Michigan to vote in the January 15, 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary,” said MDP Chair Mark Brewer. “This guide gives voters the details of the Primary and all of their voting rights so that every Michigan Democrat can participate in helping choose the 2008 Democratic presidential candidate. The guide is available on our website and we encourage voters to circulate it.”

Read the guide on the Internet here>
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Voter Guide On The January 15, 2008
Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

1. Voters will vote at their regular polling places between 7 A.M. and 8 P.M.

2. Voters can vote by absentee ballot if they meet one of the requirements – out of town, age 60 or older, disability, etc.

3. The deadline to register to vote is 30 days before January 15, 2008 or December 17, 2007.

4. In order to vote at a polling place, a voter must show a photo ID or sign a statement that they do not have a photo ID with them. Absentee voters do not have to produce a photo ID.

5. Voters will be asked whether they want a Democratic or Republican ballot, and a record will be made of which ballot they take.

6. The voter’s choice of candidate will be secret as in all public elections.

7. The Democratic ballot will have 6 choices:
Hillary Clinton
Christopher Dodd
Mike Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Uncommitted
Write-in

8. A vote for “uncommitted” is a vote to send delegates to the Democratic National Convention who are not committed or pledged to any candidate. Those delegates can vote for any candidate they choose at the Convention.

9. Supporters of Joe Biden, John Edwards, Barack Obama and Bill Richardson are urged to vote “uncommitted” instead of writing in their candidates’ names because write-in votes for those candidates will not be counted.

###
Paid for by the Michigan Democratic State Central Committee, 606 Townsend St., Lansing, MI 48933. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.



###
Paid for by the Michigan Democratic State Central Committee, 606 Townsend St., Lansing, MI 48933. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.

 

[Jon]

Yeah. Current polls are meaningless though.

The DNC has to look at it from a broader view. You've got one candidate ahead in every marker that counts in terms of deciding the nominee. You want to he DNC to turn that upside down?

I agree that Hillary has a better chance of winning in November, so I'm not arguing that point. But I think it is virtually impossible that the nomination is going to go to her.

Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you. I don't think she will get it, either. But, it makes more sense that she should.

If Florida and Michigan are seated in a way that gives her a boost in delegates, and Puerto Rico turns out in massive numbers to allow her to take the popular vote (or at least close the gap some), you could see superdelegates rethinking their positions. I'm not saying anyone is going to jump off the Obama train openly, but if Clinton stays in until August (which I think she should do if thinks go as I have mentioned), you could see people vote in a way other than they publicly pledged.

It actually makes more sense for the nomination to go as long as possible. As has been mentioned, current polls don't mean as much as future polls. So why not see where voters stand in November and decide then? I don't think it's going to hurt Democrats at all to wait that long.

 

[Steerpike]

I don't know. I think it will hurt the party to be tied up in the nomination process right up to the convention. It's better to get on with the general election.

But who can say for sure.

We'll see what June holds.

 

[Jeepers]

So what... I dont care what these renegade states sent out... the DNC said the votes wont count.. [U]all candidates agreed[/U]... Hill just decided to flip flop on this cause she is losing...

Blind hill supporters are starting to sound like blind bush supporters.. they have their opinions though the facts of the matter show otherwise... this race is over... hill will not take this fight to the convention and risk blowing the general..

 

[Jon]

So what... I dont care what these renegade states sent out... the DNC said the votes wont count.. [U]all candidates agreed[/U]... Hill just decided to flip flop on this cause she is losing...

Blind hill supporters are starting to sound like blind bush supporters.. they have their opinions though the facts of the matter show otherwise... this race is over... hill will not take this fight to the convention and risk blowing the general..

Actually, she will. Because I think in the back of her mind, she supports McCain. She can't openly show it, because that blows her chances in 2012. But I don't think she wants Obama to win, and I support her in that decision.

 

[Jeepers]

I don't know. I think it will hurt the party to be tied up in the nomination process right up to the convention. It's better to get on with the general election.

But who can say for sure.

We'll see what June holds.

History has shown this to be the case... any true democrat would be against such a selfish manuever....

 

[Shogun]

While a black man against a republican might be a steeper hill than a white woman versus a republican I see no reason why Clinton's dead horse should continue when she has been pwned again and again and has to resort to manipulating statistics like a 1940s tobacco company.

peurto fucking rico? give me a break.

 

[manifold]

While a black man against a republican might be a steeper hill than a white woman versus a republican I see no reason why Clinton's dead horse should continue when she has been pwned again and again and has to resort to manipulating statistics like a 1940s tobacco company.

peurto fucking rico? give me a break.

Or pink-lunger fascists!

 

[Jon]

she has been pwned again and again

I could say the same for Obama.

 

[Shogun]

I could say the same for Obama.

no, you really cant without having to manipulate the date like silly putty in the hands of a 12 fingered kid.

 

[Shogun]

Or pink-lunger fascists!

that gets you Pos Rep.




well, after I spread it around, apparently.

 

[Jon]

no, you really cant without having to manipulate the date like silly putty in the hands of a 12 fingered kid.

No, I can. Ohio, Pennsylvania, California, New York, Florida...states that matter, tell me, how many of those states did he win?

Right, none.

 

[Ravi]

Bush won Florida, but I don't understand the significance of your post.

Just pointing out that Florida is a swing state and so are most Florida Dems swing voters north of South Florida. If Bush can win Florida, McCain can easily over Obama.