Obama, Republicans reach deal to extend tax cuts, unemployment benefits

[kyzr]

The wealthy move their factories around the globe in search of the cheapest labor pools. The DC whores help them by giving tax breaks via the "American Jobs Creation Act" and other tax loop-holes. The rich donate money to keep their whores in office, and the voters don't seem to be able to find pols to actually build the American economy. As jobs leave the US the standard of living goes with them....

 

[georgephillip]

If the wealthiest US citizens offshore their incomes, Hudson claims this paves the way for a foreign exchange crisis. Apparently this kind of upheaval traditionally takes place in the autumn.

If this were to occur in the Fall of 2012 such a crisis could easily be exploited by BOTH major parties, and in much the same way we're seeing in Europe today, public debt will cover private debt as the big fish devour the little fish.

Hudson again:

"The bottom line is that after the prolonged tax giveaway exacerbates the federal budget deficit – along with the balance-of-payments deficit – we can expect the next Republican or Democratic administration to step in and 'save' the country from economic emergency by scaling back Social Security while turning its funding over, Pinochet-style, to Wall Street money managers to loot as they did in Chile.

"And one can forget rebuilding America’s infrastructure.

"It is being sold off by debt-strapped cities and states to cover their budget shortfalls resulting from un-taxing real estate and from foreclosures."

 

[georgephillip]

Make them reveal all of their investments, giving the deductions for investing in American and penalizing them $ for $ investing overseas in companies that directly compete for American market share domestically. Automatic felonies for any fudging the books or returns, including those who do the books and returns as well as the principles.

Jake:

Filling US prisons with rich white collar criminals would halt the decay here very quickly; however it's hard for me to believe any Republicans OR Democrats in DC are willing to prosecute the 1% of the population that fills their campaign coffers.

It may also be true that if US voters just said "No" to Wall Street bankers, those bankers could bring on Great Depression II... or worse...Civil War II?

There seems little doubt we're currently heading for a fiscal crisis that will abolish the progressive income tax and replace it with a flat tax that will apply only to wage labor and not to the FIRE sector incomes. (Finance, Insurance,Real Estate)

Rock and a hard place??

 

[JakeStarkey]

You betcha? Wink, Wink. I have been saying the future of the world is a corporate fascist takeover of "democratic" governments functioning as a facade behind which business manipulates our lives. The republic will have been finally destroyed by the dollar, Madison's worst fear finally being fulfilled.

 

[georgephillip]

Politics as the shadow business casts over society?

It's one thing for elites to manipulate public opinion during a single crisis like 911 or the Crash of '08. I'm wondering what would happen if WikiLeaks takes down Bank of America or JP Morgan Chase (or both) about the same time Sarah Palin wins the Republican nomination for President?

Alexander Cockburn has some thoughts about Sarah in his latest CounterPunch column.

Briefly, if Republican elites don't think she has a snowballs chance in Hawaii of beating Obama, they'll try to convince Blomberg to challenge Sarah for independents.

Especially if on the other side of the aisle, Russ Feingold launchs an independent assault on Obama which could lead to a repeat of the 1948 presidential campaign.

"The 2012 battlefield could turn out to offer the voters a choice not of three but of four serious candidates.

"The last time this happened was in 1948, which saw a fierce contest between the Democrat Harry Truman and the Republican Thomas Dewey, and also, on the left, the Progressive Party's Henry Wallace (formerly FDR's vice president) and on the right the pro-segregation Dixiecrats, led by Strom Thurmond."

If the US is experiencing a currency crisis shortly after B of A or JP Morgan Chase go the way of Enron all in the middle of a four way contest for the White House, even Goldman Sachs might get a tad confused.

I know I will.

Wink, wink.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Feingold, Obama, Blomberg, Palin? Obama takes the plurality of popular votes but can't, I think, take the electoral majority. Who then becomes the Hamilton, the King (Queen?) Maker of the House? It will could be Boehner, whether he would be the Speaker again or in the minority leader role again. georgephillip, you have one, sick twisted mind.

 

[georgephillip]

Quite a compliment coming from you, Jake.

I suppose an even bigger wild card in 2012 would be if a substantial number of voters, including many of those that don't usually vote, decide to FLUSH 100 - 200 Republicans AND Democrats from the US Congress...

 

[thereisnospoon]

The hatred is palpable, even worse than for Clinton and Bush. I voted for McCain. I am praying I get to vote for Romney. But, unlike the wackaloons here, I see objectively. BHO learns very quickly, as you folks are going to learn to our collective regret. He has turned his back on the far left, moved to the center, has the most popular president in the last forty years pitching for him, and the GOP is fouling off the pitches. McConnell and his doinks are so far off stride they can't get any lumber on the ball. Boehner, much to my surprise, understands what's going on. Guys, your hatred is blinding you.

The hate card...AGAIN!!!!!! Stow it jakey. It won't wash here anymore.

You are right, thereisnospoon, your hatred will not wash here.

You are not objective.

You are not a good Republican.

You are a fool, with the type of thinking that can return the GOP to a full minority status.

Yes, you are trailer trash of the worst sort: you think you understand but are too blinded to realize that you can't see because of your hatred.

Nice try.
I am not a republican at all. Republican is a political party.
The hate card is the equivalent to the race card. Both junk. No one cares.
I'm a fool....You're an asshole with teeth.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Politics as the shadow business casts over society?

It's one thing for elites to manipulate public opinion during a single crisis like 911 or the Crash of '08. I'm wondering what would happen if WikiLeaks takes down Bank of America or JP Morgan Chase (or both) about the same time Sarah Palin wins the Republican nomination for President?

Alexander Cockburn has some thoughts about Sarah in his latest CounterPunch column.

Briefly, if Republican elites don't think she has a snowballs chance in Hawaii of beating Obama, they'll try to convince Blomberg to challenge Sarah for independents.

Especially if on the other side of the aisle, Russ Feingold launchs an independent assault on Obama which could lead to a repeat of the 1948 presidential campaign.

"The 2012 battlefield could turn out to offer the voters a choice not of three but of four serious candidates.

"The last time this happened was in 1948, which saw a fierce contest between the Democrat Harry Truman and the Republican Thomas Dewey, and also, on the left, the Progressive Party's Henry Wallace (formerly FDR's vice president) and on the right the pro-segregation Dixiecrats, led by Strom Thurmond."

If the US is experiencing a currency crisis shortly after B of A or JP Morgan Chase go the way of Enron all in the middle of a four way contest for the White House, even Goldman Sachs might get a tad confused.

I know I will.

Wink, wink.

It was the republican elites that with Ron Steele's blessing put up Mc Cain as a sacrificial lamb for Obama.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you think Republican elites really wanted the White House in 2008?

It's always seemed to me they conceded the WH to the Democrats that year.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Do you think Republican elites really wanted the White House in 2008?

It's always seemed to me they conceded the WH to the Democrats that year.

No. That is awhy I stated Mc Cain was a sacrificial lamb.
Onama was "made" President. he was packaged and presented very well.
One thing suburban white liberals love is packaging and brand named stuff.
The GOP could have put up a stronger candidate but for what purpose. Obama was a "made" guy. About 15 minutes after he announced his candidacy, he won the election.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are delusional, kid.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you think Republican elites really wanted the White House in 2008?

It's always seemed to me they conceded the WH to the Democrats that year.

No. That is awhy I stated Mc Cain was a sacrificial lamb.
Onama was "made" President. he was packaged and presented very well.
One thing suburban white liberals love is packaging and brand named stuff.
The GOP could have put up a stronger candidate but for what purpose. Obama was a "made" guy. About 15 minutes after he announced his candidacy, he won the election.

The reason I asked about Republicans conceding the White House in '08 has to do with the state of the economy at the time.

If voters tend to place blame for economic misfortune with the party currently in control of Executive functions, had a Republican succeeded Bush, there would have been no way to dodge that particular bullet.

We agree absolutely about Obama's packaging.

There are many good reasons why Advertising Age Magazine voted his run for the presidency 2008's most successful ad campaign.

2012 promises to be even "better."

 

[MaggieMae]

Keeping the current tax rates does not add to the deficit. Spending too much money adds to the deficit.

Fine

Then show us the spending cuts that will pay for this tax cut before you extend it for another two years

Sounds fair

Revenue to the government will increase when the economy recovers just like it did last time. The idiots in Washington just need to not increase government spending by even more.

I'd like to see an across the board 10% cut in every agency's budget except Medicare and the Veterans Administration and cut those by 5%. They could do it, trust me. Imagine how much duplication they would miraculously find. In fact, not knowing exactly how deficit reduction will actually affect each of them, I'll bet they're already scrambling to get their respective houses in order. (Social Security is a whole 'nuther issue that needs to be addressed separately from "budget" cuts, and I think we'll see major changes to that also but they won't affect those already receiving it.)

 

[MaggieMae]

The issue is that "sacrifice" isn't necessarily needed, won't fix squat until the spending issue is fixed, and raising taxes in a recession or a stagnation is a bad idea. Playing Three Card Monty with the tax code doesn't change the situation, the Simpson-Bowles tax recommendations are still calling for a net tax increase on just about everyone above median income.

And let's also look at tax increases that supposedly reduce the deficit but don't reduce the debt. If we can increase revenue to the government but increase spending also, isn't the tax increase then wasted on more government programs? Mind you, Bush was horrible and Obama is worse but Clinton wasn't exactly a saint on spending either. He "cut" the government and yet year after year the debt total went up. How exactly was that a cut?

(It wasn't)

The Simpson-Bowles recommendations include deep cuts in spending, too. As I said, it's going to take sacrifice by everyone. There's no reason why the American people can't give into their expectations that they deserve everything out there, give in to the demand to constantly keep up with the Joneses. If gasoline goes to $6.00 a gallon, we'll do more carpooling, combine shopping trips, TAKE A BUS, or <gasp> walk a block to the 7-Eleven!! The quasi-rich might have to get rid of that third car!! Oh the horror. The poorer person might have to give up his one car entirely and figure out something else. I might have to reduce my TV package to basic and watch my favorite shows on my computer, which is already 5 years old, by the way. Why do Americans HAVE TO HAVE the latest in IT equipment and toys? I could go on and on, but I think you get my gist.

I understand your point, and I agree with the sentiment. I just think there is a more efficient and sustainable way that won't hurt as much. That way would cause the government to lose a major means to control behavior, so it'll be a tough reform.

I think on a personal level, the credit crunch scared the beejezus out of a lot of people. No one I know plans to go back to a pay-later mindset and that attitude has trickled UP to the government, which is why there are so many people suddenly interested in the deficit. A few years ago, it was just a ho-hum topic.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama is maneuvering the McConnell like they are absolute fools. This is exactly what Clinton did. The GOP as it is constituted DOES NOT REPRESENT MAINSTREAM AMERICA. And that is what BHO and folks will campaign on: "we told you that if you voted for the GOP, they would take care of the rich. And they did that before they even had the majority after January 1, 2011. They will continue to take care of the rich at your expense." This message will resonate with the voters in 2012

keep proving what an idiot you are jokey

DiveCon

Thank you for starting this tread and not being afraid to state your position.

Did you know we have some posters that have posted over 14,000 comments but had never started a tread?

One does have to wonder way that would be ?

I wonder why anyone would take the time to figure that out. You must have gone on a search binge one day.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm glad this unfunded comprimise looks like it will fail.

I just hope that I somehow get to keep my 3% tax break that bush gave me on my 5 figure income and I even hope those making over 250k get to keep the 1.5% tax break bush gave them too.

I dont know how to do that and fund unemployment extentions and SS tax cuts without cutting and eliminating government programs and/or government agencies but still I would rather see my taxes go up 3% then to put this country any further into debt.

The Republicans will successfully filibuster any bill that doesn't keep all the cuts in place. The only other option I see is a stop-gap measure to push the issue into the first six months of next year.

Socialist Bernie Sanders (I), VT is doing quite a nice job with the filibuster.

Yup, he actually did filibuster. These days, someone just invokes cloture which is the same thing: It ends the debate, which doesn't take as much time as filibustering. Sanders, being one of my Senators and a very popular one at that, probably put forth every liberal viewpoint that exists, so if anyone really wants to know what those are, I think you can download the entire 8 hours from C-Span. Of course with no one to counter him, it all sounds good. I think the one who holds the record was Strom Thurmond arguing against the Civil Rights bill, and with no one to counter his points, he also made sense. Point/counterpoint, congressional debate, is why our system works.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The two great examples of old segregationist senators were Thurmond and Byrd. The latter repaired his soul and changed. Thurmond merely changed parties. We did not need him but South Carolina loved the dork who cut and run for popularity purposes instead of admitting he was wrong..

 

[MaggieMae]

That is exactly the point. The vote was not about ideology, but about jobs. The voters don't tie the two together, no matter what some far rights believe. This tax cut ensures Obama's reelection. The GOP now can't deliver or actually deliver without appearing hypocritical. Obama has played the GOP leadership perfectly. Shoot, he had Clinton fielding questions today in the Press Room. Why are these guys able to play the GOP leadership like idiots?

I wonder if that was the intent? Read what Charles Krauthammer has to say. It is clearly not a win-win for Republicans, as some here claim.

Postbulletin.com: Charles Krauthammer: Why are Republicans handing Obama a victory? - Monday, December 13, 2010

 

[MaggieMae]

Jakey

Pajamas Media Help Me Bubba-Wan, You’re My Only Hope (Video Added)

Help Me Bubba-Wan, You’re My Only Hope (Video Added)

Posted By Bryan Preston On December 10, 2010

This afternoon, President Barack Obama held a White House meeting with the last Democrat to hold that office, and the only Democrat to win re-election to that office since LBJ, Bill Clinton. After the meeting, the two held a brief press conference in which Obama offered a quick introduction before turning the Q&A over to Clinton. The subject of all this is the deal that Obama and the Republicans reached concerning the Bush tax cuts. Clinton did a much better job of selling those cuts than Obama did during two press events earlier this week. He noted, in his wonkishly informed way, how the deal isn’t perfect but it’s better than what Obama can reasonably expect to get after the GOP takes over the House in January. He also noted that, overall, the tax cuts will help the economy. And he even went into a detailed discussion of how they payroll tax cuts that are part of the deal will help us become more competitive internationally. Clinton was in command of the facts, and did strong work selling the tax cut deal — the deal that Obama has so far failed to sell to his own party.

And then, an extraordinary thing happened.

Obama said he had kept the first lady waiting for half an hour, and told the press they were in “good hands.” And he left the briefing. Clinton did not.

The former president continued the press conference, the logo of the White House behind him in what looked like a flashback to his pre-Monica days.

Clinton looks quite a bit older now, true, but he also looks like he’s in charge. He handled the press as well as he ever did, which is a stark contrast to the way the current president mishandled the press — twice — earlier this week.

After Clinton ended the press conference, MSNBC’s Dylan Ratigan came on and asked about the “optics” of all this.

Here’s what I saw. I saw a current president who has never looked less interested in doing his job. I also saw a former president who never lost interest in doing that job. Obama’s demeanor and body language suggested that he’d rather be anywhere but where he was, and then he followed through and actually bolted for the door. Clinton’s demeanor was that of a passionate wonk trying to sell a policy he actually cared about, that he thought would be good for the country. It didn’t matter that it wasn’t even his own policy that he was selling.

I saw a president who, for a few minutes a least, ceded his job to his predecessor. He’d failed to sell his own policy, so he needed and got some rescue from Clinton.

This was the third press appearance President Obama has made this week, and it was far and away the weirdest presidential press briefing I’ve ever seen. Where Obama goes from here is anyone’s guess.

Update: Real Clear Politics has video [1] of the spectacle. Obama actually interrupts Clinton delivering an answer, to say his bit about keeping the first lady waiting, before hitting the exit. Clinton says, “I don’t want to make her mad, just go” and waves POTUS on his way without missing a beat and continues with the presser.

Update: This Drudge [2] front page needed to be preserved for posterity.

Links at site. I guess this is 'change', as it's never been done before...

Ironically, with Clinton on his own at the podium, a great many Dems who had been critical of the proposal did come around. So however awkward that scene might have been, it was productive. And, by this time, I'm sure Obama IS sick of being president. It's the hardest job in the whole world, and we're going through the toughest economic times since the depression. He's reached the point damned if he does/damned if he doesn't and he's clearly sick of that. Answer? Bring in the heavyweight and let him loose.