NY, LA, Miami and 'Dirty Bomb' Threat

[maineman]

and dillo....(did you purposely misspell that, by the way?)

I notice you blew right over my post #155 which was in direct response to yours in favor of replying to my response to Alpha1 with nothing but a smilie....

another less than surprising turn of events.

 

[maineman]

To recap...

Rhetorical Situation: YOU are a young, angry, unemployed, empoverished, madrassa educated arab muslim man. Which of the following two recruiting "pitches" from the local Al Qaeda recruiter would be more likely to get you to go join that organization?

1. "Look at how "cowardly" the enemy is: they leave Iraq and are now killing us in much greater numbers in Afghanistan and Pakistan AND they have made their ports and borders nearly impenetrable, AND they have infiltrated our sleeper cells throughout north america and europe AND they have confiscated large buckets of cash in a variety of accounts that they have unearthed that will make it even more difficult for us to pay you... AND they have forced Israel to sit down at the negotiating table with the Palestinians AND they have gotten Israel to stop building settlements in the west bank, AND they have forced the gulf state monarchies to improve their civil rights records and to allow more and more democracy. We cannot allow all that to continue! Come join us! Praise Allah!"


or...

2. "Look. We have 170 thousand Americans pinned down with a few thousand of our boys.... we are killing them every month and yet they stay there and let us continue to kill them. They don't even seem to bother when we hold televised public graduation ceremonies for hundreds of suicide bombers in Afghanistan because they are irrationally obsessed with Iraq. They continue to put muslims down at every opportunity...they continue to support those filthy Jews in whatever they wish to do to our people in palestine. Come...join us...come train to attack them in their home country - they are doing next to nothing to prevent our entry or the entry of terrible weapons of mass destruction into their country through their porous port system.... we have them right where we want them now! Join us! Praise Allah!"

Your assignment: chose one and explain your choice.

 

[Bullypulpit]

You are of course aware that the US had no intention of sending more troops to Afghanistan? Iraq or no Iraq.

Which seems to indicate that the Bush administration never had any intention of finishing the job in Afghanistan. BTW, do you have a source to support that assertion?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Which seems to indicate that the Bush administration never had any intention of finishing the job in Afghanistan. BTW, do you have a source to support that assertion?

You mean other than the fact we didn't? Other then the fact we relied heavily on afghans to help us? Other then the fact we believed a large foreign military presence in Afghanistan would be bad not good.?

 

[dilloduck]

To recap...

Rhetorical Situation: YOU are a young, angry, unemployed, empoverished, madrassa educated arab muslim man. Which of the following two recruiting "pitches" from the local Al Qaeda recruiter would be more likely to get you to go join that organization?

1. "Look at how "cowardly" the enemy is: they leave Iraq and are now killing us in much greater numbers in Afghanistan and Pakistan AND they have made their ports and borders nearly impenetrable, AND they have infiltrated our sleeper cells throughout north america and europe AND they have confiscated large buckets of cash in a variety of accounts that they have unearthed that will make it even more difficult for us to pay you... AND they have forced Israel to sit down at the negotiating table with the Palestinians AND they have gotten Israel to stop building settlements in the west bank, AND they have forced the gulf state monarchies to improve their civil rights records and to allow more and more democracy. We cannot allow all that to continue! Come join us! Praise Allah!"


or...

2. "Look. We have 170 thousand Americans pinned down with a few thousand of our boys.... we are killing them every month and yet they stay there and let us continue to kill them. They don't even seem to bother when we hold televised public graduation ceremonies for hundreds of suicide bombers in Afghanistan because they are irrationally obsessed with Iraq. They continue to put muslims down at every opportunity...they continue to support those filthy Jews in whatever they wish to do to our people in palestine. Come...join us...come train to attack them in their home country - they are doing next to nothing to prevent our entry or the entry of terrible weapons of mass destruction into their country through their porous port system.... we have them right where we want them now! Join us! Praise Allah!"

Your assignment: chose one and explain your choice.

Well look at you--giving out assignments. You really need to get a grip on how unimportant you are.

 

[ReillyT]

Other then the fact we believed a large foreign military presence in Afghanistan would be bad not good.?

Ahhh.... consider the irony.

 

[maineman]

Well look at you--giving out assignments. You really need to get a grip on how unimportant you are.

nice dodge!

 

[dilloduck]

nice dodge!

Thanks, I call it avoiding stupidity.

170,000 Americans pinned down !!

 

[maineman]

Thanks, I call it avoiding stupidity.

170,000 Americans pinned down !!

Have you ever listened to a recruiter? I asked a simple question: if you were a yong arab man, which of those two hypothetical rhetorical recruiting pitches woudl you respond more positively to? YOu and I both know that AQ recruiters (or US military recruiters, for that matter) are not necessarily bound to tell the truth, they just need to dance around it.

I understand that 170K troops are not actually "pinned down", but their continued presence there, combined with the fact that there are only a few thousand AQ members in Iraq, could certainly be construed that way by an AQ recruiter.

Now be a good boy and show a set of balls and just answer the question. WHich of the two recruiting pitches would work best for you?

 

[maineman]

and, of course, the question is designed to make you defend your assertion that our departure from Iraq would be used by AQ recruiters as a PR windfall..... an assertion easy to make, but difficult to actually defend...except by avoiding defending it and posting silly smilies instead.

that is another of your calling cards.

 

[Alpha1]

Neither, I don't like either approach...they would most likely use the "facts" as they see them and, the truth as found in the liberal media of US and in the Congress of the US....

"The US holds on by their fingernails in Iraq...our bombs kill their soldiers in great numbers and they have no stomach for it...their politicans fight among themselves and it is Allahs will, the next US President will surrender the country to us....and we will have victory here and take the fight to their shores, their cities, their embassys, and Americans wherever they try to hide....their borders are like holes in a sandbag and we can enter their homes at will, with full confidence that their own unwillingness to enforce their border laws will guarantee our success...they will give us jobs, sometimes even in the most sensitive areas and we will play them for the fools they are until it is time to strike....
Their own leaders describe what American soldiers have done to prisoners in their control, and liken them to the actions of Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. This from their very own Senate floor....
They admit to the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo against us....
Their own newspapers beg the demented Bush to leave Iraq, acknowledge he is a liar in everything he says, acknowledge they only want to rob the Muslim lands of our oil....we need only hold on until the new US leader gives us victory...."
-------------
What a recruitment tool....to use the words of our very own Democrat leaders is priceless

 

[dilloduck]

Have you ever listened to a recruiter? I asked a simple question: if you were a yong arab man, which of those two hypothetical rhetorical recruiting pitches woudl you respond more positively to? YOu and I both know that AQ recruiters (or US military recruiters, for that matter) are not necessarily bound to tell the truth, they just need to dance around it.

I understand that 170K troops are not actually "pinned down", but their continued presence there, combined with the fact that there are only a few thousand AQ members in Iraq, could certainly be construed that way by an AQ recruiter.

Now be a good boy and show a set of balls and just answer the question. WHich of the two recruiting pitches would work best for you?

I doubt very seriously that a young arab boy sits around and listens to a recuiters' pitch.

 

[maineman]

I doubt very seriously that a young arab boy sits around and listens to a recuiters' pitch.

how do you think young arab men decide to join Al Qaeda?

and quit dodging my question.....

such sniveling avoidance on your part is unbecoming

 

[Alpha1]

how do you think young arab men decide to join Al Qaeda?

and quit dodging my question.....

such sniveling avoidance on your part is unbecoming

No dodge from me....just a more realistic pep talk for new AQ wannabes...

...they would most likely use the "facts" as they see them and, the truth as found in the liberal media of US and in the Congress of the US....

"The US holds on by their fingernails in Iraq...our bombs kill their soldiers in great numbers and they have no stomach for it...their politicans fight among themselves and it is Allahs will, the next US President will surrender the country to us....and we will have victory here and take the fight to their shores, their cities, their embassys, and Americans wherever they try to hide....their borders are like holes in a sandbag and we can enter their homes at will, with full confidence that their own unwillingness to enforce their border laws will guarantee our success...they will give us jobs, sometimes even in the most sensitive areas and we will play them for the fools they are until it is time to strike....
Their own leaders describe what American soldiers have done to prisoners in their control, and liken them to the actions of Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. This from their very own Senate floor....
They admit to the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo against us....
Their own newspapers beg the demented Bush to leave Iraq, acknowledge he is a liar in everything he says, acknowledge they only want to rob the Muslim lands of our oil....we need only hold on until the new US leader gives us victory...."
-------------
What a recruitment tool....to use the words of our very own Democrat leaders is priceless
__________________

 

[maineman]

No dodge from me....just a more realistic pep talk for new AQ wannabes...

...they would most likely use the "facts" as they see them and, the truth as found in the liberal media of US and in the Congress of the US....

"The US holds on by their fingernails in Iraq...our bombs kill their soldiers in great numbers and they have no stomach for it...their politicans fight among themselves and it is Allahs will, the next US President will surrender the country to us....and we will have victory here and take the fight to their shores, their cities, their embassys, and Americans wherever they try to hide....their borders are like holes in a sandbag and we can enter their homes at will, with full confidence that their own unwillingness to enforce their border laws will guarantee our success...they will give us jobs, sometimes even in the most sensitive areas and we will play them for the fools they are until it is time to strike....
Their own leaders describe what American soldiers have done to prisoners in their control, and liken them to the actions of Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings. This from their very own Senate floor....
They admit to the torture techniques that have been used at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo against us....
Their own newspapers beg the demented Bush to leave Iraq, acknowledge he is a liar in everything he says, acknowledge they only want to rob the Muslim lands of our oil....we need only hold on until the new US leader gives us victory...."
-------------
What a recruitment tool....to use the words of our very own Democrat leaders is priceless
__________________

now, if that bore any resemblance to what the democrats want to do, that would be interesting. As it is, it is typical heat filled dim rhetoric from a guy who has made a name for himself for doing just that across three different boards that I know of.

No one is suggesting we abandon the fight againts AQ and islamic extremism. If we allowed Iraqis to solve their own intramural political problems and actually went on the offensive against our REAL enemies and took steps at home to make ourselves safer from attack by those REAL enemies instead of flushing blood and treasure down the drain in Iraq while five years later, a half a trillion dollars later, and 31K dead and wounded later, our REAL enemies are just as strong as the day they attacked us.

 

[Alpha1]

now, if that bore any resemblance to what the democrats want to do, that would be interesting. As it is, it is typical heat filled dim rhetoric from a guy who has made a name for himself for doing just that across three different boards that I know of.

No one is suggesting we abandon the fight againts AQ and islamic extremism. If we allowed Iraqis to solve their own intramural political problems and actually went on the offensive against our REAL enemies and took steps at home to make ourselves safer from attack by those REAL enemies instead of flushing blood and treasure down the drain in Iraq while five years later, a half a trillion dollars later, and 31K dead and wounded later, our REAL enemies are just as strong as the day they attacked us.

Getting away from the latest topic is about what you always do....

The fact is, if AQ or any other extremest wants to recruit new fanatics for their cause and need to give a pep talk to them, all they need do recite the very words used by dim Democrats from the floor of the Congress, and use our own left-wing media as an aid in gathering shit to sell them...thats what you do .....aid the enemy...embolden the enemy, and in reality, help recruit new dipshits for their side....after all, according to the left, according to the democrats...they are winning....

 

[ReillyT]

The fact is, if AQ or any other extremest wants to recruit new fanatics for their cause and need to give a pep talk to them, all they need do recite the very words used by dim Democrats from the floor of the Congress, and use our own left-wing media as an aid in gathering shit to sell them...thats what you do .....aid the enemy...embolden the enemy, and in reality, help recruit new dipshits for their side....after all, according to the left, according to the democrats...they are winning....

Do you still consider it merely emboldening the enemy and providing supporting for recruiting if what is said is true? What if the speakers merely believe it to be true? Should the media and our representatives shy from providing us with information and their points of view because it happens to be bad news instead of good? That would make for an interesting democracy.

 

[jillian]

Getting away from the latest topic is about what you always do....

The fact is, if AQ or any other extremest wants to recruit new fanatics for their cause and need to give a pep talk to them, all they need do recite the very words used by dim Democrats from the floor of the Congress, and use our own left-wing media as an aid in gathering shit to sell them...thats what you do .....aid the enemy...embolden the enemy, and in reality, help recruit new dipshits for their side....after all, according to the left, according to the democrats...they are winning....

Do you think people who are safe and happy and employed and educated can be fanaticized? Maybe some, but not in great numbers.

Now, ask yourself what truly fanaticizes people who are angry, uneducated or undereducated, trained in fanatic madrassas, or who see their families living in danger, poverty and surrounded by an occupying army.

a) a news report that tells the truth about lack of support for the decisions of a particular administration (which has about 500 or so more days to go, anyway); or

b) continuing an occupation

You want the enemy to win... destroy freedom of speech, democracy and the other values that this country was founded on. My noting the the incompetence of the administration and wanting intelligent decisions made about the timing of bringing our troops home isn't going to embolden anyone.

 

[maineman]

Getting away from the latest topic is about what you always do....

The fact is, if AQ or any other extremest wants to recruit new fanatics for their cause and need to give a pep talk to them, all they need do recite the very words used by dim Democrats from the floor of the Congress, and use our own left-wing media as an aid in gathering shit to sell them...thats what you do .....aid the enemy...embolden the enemy, and in reality, help recruit new dipshits for their side....after all, according to the left, according to the democrats...they are winning....

the biggest recruiting boon for AQ is the fact that we are occupying an arab country... democratic political rhetoric is relatively meaningless to the young disaffected youth joining AQ today. They are joining because it's a great time to be killin' Americans and spilling their blood on arab soil.

the fact that we were so completely and irrationally obsessed with Iraq to the point that our real enemies were able to hold and outdoor televised public graduation ceremony for 300 mujahadeen wannabe suicide bombers in Afghanistan - where our real enemies have been since we gave up looking for them to run off and invade Iraq....THAT is way more motivating to young arabs just itching to blow themselves up and take a bunch of infidel invading Americans with them than any flowery political rhetoric back inside the washington debating society. Our actions speak much louder than our words.

And it is our actions - and not our words - that incenses young arabs and muslims to want to die killing us.

 

[Alpha1]

I'm sure the Iraq war is used as a recruitment tool for AQ...our presence in the Middle East and our alliance with Israel was used by them pre-9/11 and pre-Bush for that matter.....and having troops in Iraq is just more ammo for them.....(http://tinyurl.com/yotfpo) is a recruitment tape made at least 6 months before 9/11 showing this and techniques of pictures with Western leaders, etc. hobnobbing with Saudis, and others to give the impressions they needed to give to help recruitment...

IMO...these techniques are obviously still the norm for all propaganda .....
Pics of pitiful Palestinian children shown along with Jewish troops to give the impression that the troops are killing the children is the same technique used by M. Moore in his propaganda docs....same method, same result, some nuts actually believe them to be accurate....

Though I have not seen any recent propaganda tapes...I have every reason to assume that AQ recruiters, given the great stories printed in our media about Gitmo and torture, etc., along with the crap said on the floor of the Senate by Dimocrats would not be seen as valuable fodder for any recruitment or propaganda video they would need....not only is it free, its true....They have a goldmine of anti-American and anti-Bush shit to use....Harry Reid saying, "The war is lost"....man what a great line for enemy....I wouldn't pass it up up if I worked for AQ and only the very naive would assume they would....