NT still unsure if bush is crooked or not?

[spillmind]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/ap/20031030/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_contracts

complete, total coincidence! no relations between contracts to rebuild iraq and campaign donations! they are merely the most qualified! sheeeeesh.

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

to bad that haliburton is losing money:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089811/

The Cheney Curse
The veep hasn't helped Halliburton. He has hurt it.
By Daniel Gross
Posted Tuesday, October 14, 2003, at 1:50 PM PT


Last week, Halliburton, the oil-services and construction company formerly run by Vice President Dick Cheney, surprisingly warned that its earnings for the current quarter would be 15 percent lower than estimates. You'd think that Halliburton would be thriving. After all, oil prices are high, and the company has received giant—if controversial—contracts to oversee the reconstruction of Iraq. The no-bid prewar contract it received to work on Saddam's oil fields has, according to the Wall Street Journal, gushed $1.3 billion of revenues thus far. The company also won a competitive bid for a $1.4 billion contract to support military personnel.

Here is a strange fact about the well-connected company: Dick Cheney hasn't helped it. In January 2001, if you bought stock thinking that Cheney's ascension would be a boon to Halliburton, you made a bad bet. Since January 2001, Halliburton has underperformed both the Oil Services Index and the S&P 500—although it has outperformed both indexes over the past year.

It turns out that as much as Halliburton has benefited from having Cheney in government, it suffers from having had him in the executive suite before then. As CEO, Cheney was less an operations manager than a deal-maker, a boldface name who opened doors, especially abroad, and sealed huge contracts. But several of the deals he struck proved to be ill-advised and questionable and, ultimately, damaging to the company and its shareholders.

Halliburton attributes its earnings shortfall to problems in joint ventures and high legal fees—both of which can be laid at Cheney's feet. Cheney midwifed the Barracuda-Caratinga Project, which is gnawing a hole in the company's balance sheet. Under the $2.5 billion deal, announced in January 2000 when Cheney was CEO, Halliburton was supposed to develop two offshore oil fields in Brazil by December 2003 and April 2004, respectively. But the project has turned into a fiasco, with huge cost overruns and bad schedule misses. As of June 30, 2003, the project was 75 percent complete—and more than a year behind schedule. By that date, Kellogg, Brown and Root, the responsible subsidiary, had already recorded a pretax loss of $345 million on the project, with the possibility of greater losses to come. The miserable experience has caused the current management team to cease making fixed-price bids on giant projects.


Halliburton is piling up legal fees from Cheney-era mistakes. One of Cheney's largest deals was the $7.7 billion acquisition of Dresser Industries in 1998. At the time, only companies that had been directly involved in asbestos production and use were being held liable. But as the volume of asbestos-related claims rose, lawyers began to pursue companies that were tangentially connected to asbestos—yet still legally liable. Dresser had once owned a unit, Harbison-Walker, that used asbestos. When Harbison-Walker declared bankruptcy in 2002, Halliburton began to face massive claims. Last year, the company said it would put $4 billion in cash and stock into a trust to help settle such claims. As part of an effort to settle the claims once and for all, Halliburton is trying to engineer a bankruptcy filing for a major subsidiary.

Halliburton is also fending off class-action lawsuits and a Securities and Exchange investigation related to its accounting practices. In May 2002, questions were raised about how Halliburton accounted for unapproved claims and change orders on long-term construction projects. A year later, Halliburton settled about 20 shareholder class-action lawsuits for approximately $6 million. But there could be more costs associated with the Cheney-era accounting issues. Judicial Watch, the conservative gadfly organization whose suit against Halliburton was dismissed in September, is considering an appeal. And the SEC investigation is continuing.

On the positive side of the balance sheet, crony capitalism has certainly helped Halliburton in Iraq. Without Cheney, after all, the Iraq war and the massive Halliburton contracts that followed would have been far less likely. But it's easy to overstate the importance of such work to Halliburton. In its second-quarter conference call, the company reported that Iraq-related activity accounted for only about 9 percent of revenue. And this type of business is unsustainable—unless the United States invades a country that needs new infrastructure every year. (Is that the plan, Mr. Vice President?)

American citizens must hope they avoid the fate of Halliburton shareholders: at first glad to have the experienced Cheney at the top, then excited about his ambitious plans, and, finally, dismayed to be left holding the bag when Cheney moves on to another job.
--

 

[jimnyc]

This war is "all about oil & Halliburton", or at least thats what plenty of the liberals are saying. I never bought that story from day one. Thanks for the link, I was not aware of that.

 

[janeeng]

Good link Lefty Wilbury!!! I don't recall seeing you on here, so soryr and welcome to the board!!!!!!!!!

 

[dijetlo]

Hey Wilbury, thanks for the post but it was not exactly an endorsement of Cheney/Haliburtons' activities if you read to the end. From the begining of your post:
>>Last week, Halliburton, the oil-services and construction company formerly run by Vice President Dick Cheney, surprisingly warned that its earnings for the current quarter would be 15 percent lower than estimates.<<

Yahoo-Dow report on Haliburton estimate
>>HOUSTON -- Halliburton Co. (NYSE:HAL - News) said third-quarter net income fell 38% on a loss from discontinued operations, but revenue surged on government projects for its Kellogg, Brown & Root, or KBR, subsidiary in the Middle East...The loss reflects a reserve for uncollectible insurance receivables purchased from Harbison-Walker, once owned by Halliburton's Dresser Industries Inc. unit, as well as costs of a proposed settlement for asbestos and silica liabilities. <<

From your article:
>>On the positive side of the balance sheet, crony capitalism has certainly helped Halliburton in Iraq. Without Cheney, after all, the Iraq war and the massive Halliburton contracts that followed would have been far less likely.<<

I was wondering what you thought about this?
>> the Iraqi oil company SOMO has imported gasoline into Iraq for just 90 to 98 cents per gallon, which is far less than the price of $1.59 or more per gallon charged by Halliburton.<<

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

over all though haliburton revenue is down. but here the thing they are they best at what they do. why not hire the best to get the job done? their familiar with the area, they operate out of kuwait so it was easy for them to move right on into iraq and get working. i rather have the best get the work done swiftly and effectivly then have a less expericenced company stumble out of the gate.

 

[spillmind]

stumble out of the gate?

do you mean the way the US did vastly underestimating everything from the looters on babylon to the duration of time in iraq, to the loss of civilian/soliders lives? at what point does someone get fired around here?

even if they were the best qualified, who is determining this, and why not open the contract bidding to any interested parties?

this rigging of positions is becoming more and more flagrant each day. keep hiding behind your 'most qualifed' statement and keep denying that it was shady the way the whole thing shook down. don't believe me, ask the brits, our only reall ally in the 'war' that doesn't depend on our trade to survive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3231345.stm

don't take my word for, and keep those blinders on tight! it makes the world around you look like USA is the good guy doing the right thing for the preservation of peace and democracy worldwide!

*snort* *sniff* that was a good one! this is capitalism, man, not the good damned soup kitchen for the world.

 

[Bry]

I've heard Haliburton is the best at putting out oil fires. (Haven't seen any sort of documentation, but we'll let that go for now.) What percentage of the Haliburton contract is putting out oil fires?

Great link, Spillmind. I like how it comes complete with a photo of a real live crony! jejeje.

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

Originally posted by spillmind
stumble out of the gate?

who would you want a novice company rebuilding your house or a well known contractor?

Originally posted by spillmind
do you mean the way the US did vastly underestimating everything from the looters on babylon

the looting was done by criminals and was VASTLY overestimated. i bet your still one of the ones that thinks 100,000 plus things were stolen from the museum right?

Originally posted by spillmind
to the duration of time in iraq, to the loss of civilian/soliders lives? at what point does someone get fired around here?

right and in your wisdom you can see into the furture and tell how long things would go on. they've stated since the begining we would be there for a few years. and as far as live A. more people got killed by saddam in an average week the what happend during all of the war B. we've lose more guys on training exercises over the coarse of a year then were lost in iraq.

Originally posted by spillmind
even if they were the best qualified, who is determining this, and why not open the contract bidding to any interested parties?

lets see because haliburton has a history of dealing with oil well fires and rebuilding pipeline and infastucture and outsourcing contracts in the middle east because they've done it before. to wait around for someone to get established and to move equipment into place would be foolish.

Originally posted by spillmind
this rigging of positions is becoming more and more flagrant each day. keep hiding behind your 'most qualifed' statement and keep denying that it was shady the way the whole thing shook down. don't believe me, ask the brits, our only reall ally in the 'war' that doesn't depend on our trade to survive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3231345.stm

you want use the bbc as a source on iraq? your kidding right? the brits in iraq turned off the bbc during the war because it was to pro iraq! hell the bbc just fired a radio reporter for sounding "too white" only problem was their pakistani. lets not forget the little report on the weapons thing from the bbc which they basically had to admit they made things up.

Originally posted by spillmind
don't take my word for, and keep those blinders on tight! it makes the world around you look like USA is the good guy doing the right thing for the preservation of peace and democracy worldwide!

*snort* *sniff* that was a good one! this is capitalism, man, not the good damned soup kitchen for the world.

i get first hand reports from people from all over the world on what's going on from the UAE, iraq, uzbechistan,tailand, saudi arabia and all the world over. i'm not the one with the blinders on maybe you missed those pro us rallies in iran shortly after 9-11. or the pro democracy protest in june and july in iran. maybe you missed those pro democracy rallies in saudi arabia in the past few weeks.

 

[spillmind]

it's really quite amazing how people will ride their horse backward to prove a point. accodring to mr. lefty hater, we've done everything right, and there is NO ROOM for critisism!

just look at your posts, man.

yes, i will link the bbc, as they are a very reputable source. i have no reason to believe otherwise. you may have your own opinion, but they are by and large a solid foundation.

since you won't admit that haliburton getting the contracts in a behind the scenes deal is shady (not even in the least) even if i will admit they are the most qualified, it only serves to demonstrate your bias. nothing more.

your projection as to how long we will stay there is founded by guesswork, nothing more. i will admit the same. but for you to be so sure about the future and the progession leaves much to be desired. it's as simple as that. NOBODY CAN TELL for sure.

i'm an eternal pessimist in these parts, and i'll believe we are out of iraq, when they have a stable government. we'll see when that happens. p.s. don't hold your breath.

i get first hand reports from people from all over the world on what's going on from the UAE, iraq, uzbechistan,tailand, saudi arabia and all the world over. i'm not the one with the blinders on maybe you missed those pro us rallies in iran shortly after 9-11. or the pro democracy protest in june and july in iran. maybe you missed those pro democracy rallies in saudi arabia in the past few weeks.

again, do a side by side analysis on the anti-US rallies world wide leading up to the war and present, and you find that we are just as infamous as we are famous. i agree with the cause, but i agree it is a lost cause.

 

[FORD]

If Halliburton is "losing money", it's probably for tax write off purposes.