CDZ NSA, CIA, FBI Spying on American Citizens

[JoeB131]

I can imagine if this were have come out on Bush spying on Obama's new transition team with NSA tools, you'd be fine with that too... right?

First, you haven't proven that was done.

Trump is in charge now. All he has to do is march Comey out there like Winston Smith at the end of 1984 and get him to confess to doing the wiretap, if the Wiretap was done.

Second, if Obama and his team were conspiring with a foreign power, that's something I think we'd want to know about.

 

[JoeB131]

It's cultural problem. When the pool of people you have to hire from is increasingly unpatriotic, amoral and unprincipled, then it doesn't matter much whether or not what laws, rules, and administrative procedures you invent, they will be corrupted and ignored for personal gain and influence. this is a fundamental fact both right and left wing ideologues are oblivious to, and pseudo-intellectual 'rationalist' hand waves and ad hoc ideological reductionism isn't going to fix anything.

Elect unpatriotic egotistical sociopaths and narcissists and you get what you actually voted for, not what your rhetoric claims you voted for and supported.

Buddy, i see you are really worried that someone has something on Trump.

So let's say we have a recording that comes out tomorrow of Trump and Putin talking before the election, where Trump promises to let Putin have a free hand in the Ukraine if he gives him the goods on Hillary.

Is that impeachable or not? Forget whether it came from the NSA, the KGB or some fat kid in his mom's basement.

 

[Picaro]

It's cultural problem. When the pool of people you have to hire from is increasingly unpatriotic, amoral and unprincipled, then it doesn't matter much whether or not what laws, rules, and administrative procedures you invent, they will be corrupted and ignored for personal gain and influence. this is a fundamental fact both right and left wing ideologues are oblivious to, and pseudo-intellectual 'rationalist' hand waves and ad hoc ideological reductionism isn't going to fix anything.

Elect unpatriotic egotistical sociopaths and narcissists and you get what you actually voted for, not what your rhetoric claims you voted for and supported.

Buddy, i see you are really worried that someone has something on Trump.

So let's say we have a recording that comes out tomorrow of Trump and Putin talking before the election, where Trump promises to let Putin have a free hand in the Ukraine if he gives him the goods on Hillary.

Is that impeachable or not? Forget whether it came from the NSA, the KGB or some fat kid in his mom's basement.

Another ranting lunatic post from Joe here. I see you can't grasp the point being made, which is also par for DNC shills. You Obama didn't care a wit about Putin, neither did Hillary, for most of the last 8 years but all of sudden they got interested when the election cycle was mostly done and they were losing badly, and then upped the game in order to leave a bigger pile of shit behind on their way out the door.

We can get you and your fellow ranters into the Ukraine and let you prove your dedication to fightin evul n stuff; start a GoFundMe page or something for you. Your imaginary 'talking points' campaign has been going on for months now, with exactly zero to show for it, so we know you have the time.

 

[JoeB131]

Another ranting lunatic post from Joe here. I see you can't grasp the point being made, which is also par for DNC shills. You Obama didn't care a wit about Putin, neither did Hillary, for most of the last 8 years but all of sudden they got interested when the election cycle was mostly done and they were losing badly, and then upped the game in order to leave a bigger pile of shit behind on their way out the door.

Yes, that's when we found out the Russians were openly trying to influence our elections... that's when we started caring about him doing that.

I should point out WHY Putin decided to go after Hillary and Obama was because they interfered with his invasion of the Ukraine. so it wasn't like Putin was being 'ignored', as you say.

50 Billion in sanctions isn't chump change.

We can get you and your fellow ranters into the Ukraine and let you prove your dedication to fightin evul n stuff; start a GoFundMe page or something for you. Your imaginary 'talking points' campaign has been going on for months now, with exactly zero to show for it, so we know you have the time.

Guy, you don't seem to understand how this works. We don't have to prove anything. All we have to do is keep repeating it.

Kind of like what you guys did with Hillary and Benghazi.

I really don't care about the Ukraine one way or the other, it's not any of our business. I do care about the fact the Russians helped put a crazy person in the White House.

 

[Picaro]

Another ranting lunatic post from Joe here. I see you can't grasp the point being made, which is also par for DNC shills. You Obama didn't care a wit about Putin, neither did Hillary, for most of the last 8 years but all of sudden they got interested when the election cycle was mostly done and they were losing badly, and then upped the game in order to leave a bigger pile of shit behind on their way out the door.

Yes, that's when we found out the Russians were openly trying to influence our elections... that's when we started caring about him doing that.

I should point out WHY Putin decided to go after Hillary and Obama was because they interfered with his invasion of the Ukraine. so it wasn't like Putin was being 'ignored', as you say.

50 Billion in sanctions isn't chump change.

We can get you and your fellow ranters into the Ukraine and let you prove your dedication to fightin evul n stuff; start a GoFundMe page or something for you. Your imaginary 'talking points' campaign has been going on for months now, with exactly zero to show for it, so we know you have the time.

Guy, you don't seem to understand how this works. We don't have to prove anything. All we have to do is keep repeating it.

Kind of like what you guys did with Hillary and Benghazi.

I really don't care about the Ukraine one way or the other, it's not any of our business. I do care about the fact the Russians helped put a crazy person in the White House.

Sorry, not interested in exploding all those stupid lies and fake news stories that have already been exploded for the 34,958, 124th time, this week alone, just because you have a deep need to derail the thread with gibberish instead of real points. Go back to all the other threads mocking your inane crap in the other forums.

 

[Boss]

First, you haven't proven that was done.

You've not proven any collusion with Russia either. In fact, I think that was a totally fabricated cover story to justify domestic spying on political enemies.

You might think this is all going to blow over and there will be no ramifications or consequences for what has transpired. I think you are wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

You've not proven any collusion with Russia either. In fact, I think that was a totally fabricated cover story to justify domestic spying on political enemies.

YOu mean other than all these Trump Associates were meeting with the Russians, and Trump himself called on the Russians to hack Hillary's E-mail?

But you are right. We have no evidence.. yet. Just like we had no evidence that Nixon was linked to Watergate in 1972. That's why you have an investigation.

Here's the thing. Trump is in charge of those agencies. He can simply demand to know who spied on him and who ordered it... if it happened.

Been four weeks now since he's made the claim.

 

[Boss]

YOu mean other than all these Trump Associates were meeting with the Russians, and Trump himself called on the Russians to hack Hillary's E-mail?

But you are right. We have no evidence.. yet. Just like we had no evidence that Nixon was linked to Watergate in 1972. That's why you have an investigation.

Here's the thing. Trump is in charge of those agencies. He can simply demand to know who spied on him and who ordered it... if it happened.

Been four weeks now since he's made the claim.

And you have the House Chairman on Intelligence saying it happened.

People meet with Russians all the time, including most of the Democrats. Hell, Hillary gave them 20% of our uranium stock. No telling how much money they funneled to her money-laundering "charity" organization.

But you are right. We have no evidence.

Which BEGS the question, how was authorization obtained to spy on them? You're right... we DO need an investigation. We need to know what extent the Obama administration went to in order to use national security resources to spy on domestic political enemies. This is 10,000 times worse than anything Nixon even wanted to do.

 

[JoeB131]

And you have the House Chairman on Intelligence saying it happened.

And he's been walking it back every since.

People meet with Russians all the time, including most of the Democrats. Hell, Hillary gave them 20% of our uranium stock. No telling how much money they funneled to her money-laundering "charity" organization.

Okay, guy, Seven Agencies had to approve that deal, and Congress had to sign off on it. Did Hillary cut them all in?

Which BEGS the question, how was authorization obtained to spy on them? You're right... we DO need an investigation. We need to know what extent the Obama administration went to in order to use national security resources to spy on domestic political enemies. This is 10,000 times worse than anything Nixon even wanted to do.

No, it isn't.

In fact, it's kind of what I'd want my government to do if they thought there was an effort by a hostile foreign power to influence our elections.

 

[Boss]

And he's been walking it back every since.

Can't walk the genie back in the bottle. The beans have been spilled.

Okay, guy, Seven Agencies had to approve that deal, and Congress had to sign off on it. Did Hillary cut them all in?

Doubtful.

No, it isn't.

In fact, it's kind of what I'd want my government to do if they thought there was an effort by a hostile foreign power to influence our elections.

We'll see how you feel about that when Trump uses the NSA to gather dirt on whatever insane Socialist you decide to run in 2020. I'm betting your tune will change.

Again, you said yourself there was no evidence.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean other than the fact he was openly doing it, no, no evidence at all. Just like there was no evidence he was a masher, other than him openly talking about grabbing women and all the women who came out and said he did it.

You guys are amazing in your suspension of willing disbelief.

 

[yiostheoy]

I'm good with it.

I don't have any secrets.

I don't grow dope or cook meth.

I don't launder money.

I don't have any illegal ammo.

 

[Boss]

I'm good with it.

I don't have any secrets.

I don't grow dope or cook meth.

I don't launder money.

I don't have any illegal ammo.

Neither did General Flynn.

 

[Boss]

You mean other than the fact he was openly doing it, no, no evidence at all. Just like there was no evidence he was a masher, other than him openly talking about grabbing women and all the women who came out and said he did it.

You guys are amazing in your suspension of willing disbelief.

Openly doing WHAT?

 

[JoeB131]

Neither did General Flynn.

Nope, General Flynn just had an illegal conversation with a Russian spymaster, and lied about it. Right after he lied about lobbying for the Russian and Turkish governments.

 

[Boss]

Neither did General Flynn.

Nope, General Flynn just had an illegal conversation with a Russian spymaster, and lied about it. Right after he lied about lobbying for the Russian and Turkish governments.

And you know this because he was being spied on by Obama & Company and the details were leaked to the media.

 

[JoeB131]

And you know this because he was being spied on by Obama & Company and the details were leaked to the media.

So? It's what he did that is the problem, not how we found out.

The scary thing is that this nut was National Security Adviser for a week or so.... because it took that long for this to percolate.

The question you have to ask yourself is why are the intelligence agencies that worried about Trump and the people around him?

 

[Boss]

And you know this because he was being spied on by Obama & Company and the details were leaked to the media.

So? It's what he did that is the problem, not how we found out.

The scary thing is that this nut was National Security Adviser for a week or so.... because it took that long for this to percolate.

The question you have to ask yourself is why are the intelligence agencies that worried about Trump and the people around him?

He did WHAT???? You've not proven he did anything illegal or unethical! You have ZERO evidence by your own admission! On the other hand, it IS highly illegal and unethical to leak intelligence information, including names of private citizens to the media.

I have to ask myself how some partisans can be SO oblivious to politicians exploiting our national security apparatus to spy on their political enemies!

 

[JoeB131]

He did WHAT???? You've not proven he did anything illegal or unethical! You have ZERO evidence by your own admission! On the other hand, it IS highly illegal and unethical to leak intelligence information, including names of private citizens to the media.

I have to ask myself how absolute idiotic morons can be SO oblivious to politicians exploiting our national security apparatus to spy on their political enemies!

Uh, guy, Flynn is the one who had to resign after they found out what he did. He'll have plenty of company once the investigations get rolling.

For the record, ANYTHING that frustrates this bunch of crooks attempts to destroy America is perfectly okay with me. The sooner we get these people out, the better. I'm not going to get worked up because you all got caught with your pants around our ankles.

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't care what "SIDE" you're on here. Your politics have nothing to do with this. You HAVE to be concerned with our national security apparatus being used to spy on political enemies.... that's a Banana Republic. That's exactly what THEY do. This is a rabbit hole we cannot go down, no matter how tempting it may be for political expediency.

If Trump was dealing with the Russians, he should be impeached.

Period.

How we found out about this - you know, other than the fact that most of his guys having ties to the Russians is pretty much in the open- is irrelevant.

It wasn't like your side didn't know what Trump was when you nominated him and voted for him and let him proceed to the presidency even though the people said "No" pretty loudly.

The truth is the Democrats, particularly John Podesta, have ties to Russia while in office, which is illegal, yet they think they can get rid of Trump because of any legal business Trump's company did with Russian companies. They think by flapping their gums they can create a scandal. What works against them is they have idiots like Nancy Pelosi and Maxine Waters showing us daily why they have zero credibility. It also doesn't help that Chuck Schumer, who was screaming at people in a restaurant yesterday, is acting like he's losing his marbles in public...