noam chomsky vs milton friedman

[Shanty]

I'm saying the proof has been that stimulus works, as proven by the Great Depression, and in the last recession....

Whatever you're smoking, you'd better ease up on it.

Why would you be so afraid of facts?

Why would you be so unfamiliar with them?

I rely on them. I use them. I protect my investments with them. I really like facts.

 

[Shanty]

They keep pushing for economic policies that hurt economic growth, .

you mean by supporting new inventions like micro chips rather than roads??

No. They don't. They actually harm the economy and then reduce the demand for computer chips. Republicans suck at economics.

when a depression hits liberals want to build roads rather than world class technology industries to get the economy going!! Slow?

Of course, you lying is something of a pattern I'm seeing from you.

Liberals want to help see the world class technology be fostered, and have markets available for the tech. In fact, much of today's tech wouldn't be here without the sort of liberal thinking it takes to get government to fund research and development, and then allowing the private sector to borrow from the ideas to develop more tech.

 

[Unkotare]

"
The goal of the New Deal was to get Americans back to work. But the New Deal didn't restore employment. In fact, there was even less work on average during the New Deal than before FDR took office. Total hours worked per adult, including government employees, were 18% below their 1929 level between 1930-32, but were 23% lower on average during the New Deal (1933-39). Private hours worked were even lower after FDR took office, averaging 27% below their 1929 level, compared to 18% lower between in 1930-32.

Even comparing hours worked at the end of 1930s to those at the beginning of FDR's presidency doesn't paint a picture of recovery. Total hours worked per adult in 1939 remained about 21% below their 1929 level, compared to a decline of 27% in 1933. And it wasn't just work that remained scarce during the New Deal. Per capita consumption did not recover at all, remaining 25% below its trend level throughout the New Deal, and per-capita nonresidential investment averaged about 60% below trend. The Great Depression clearly continued long after FDR took office.

...

The main lesson we have learned from the New Deal is that wholesale government intervention can -- and does -- deliver the most unintended of consequences. This was true in the 1930s, when artificially high wages and prices kept us depressed for more than a decade, it was true in the 1970s when price controls were used to combat inflation but just produced shortages. It is true today, when poorly designed regulation produced a banking system that took on too much risk."


http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123353276749137485

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Liberals want to help see the world class technology be fostered,.

you mean by saddling them with liberal unions, the highest taxes in the world so they move out and take 30 million jobs with them, and double taxaction should they try to bring any of their profts back to the USA!!

see wy we say slow?

 

[Shanty]

They keep pushing for economic policies that hurt economic growth, .

you mean by supporting new inventions like micro chips rather than roads??

No. They don't. They actually harm the economy and then reduce the demand for computer chips. Republicans suck at economics.

when a depression hits liberals want to build roads rather than world class technology industries to get the economy going!! Slow?

You are slow. When a depression hits, liberals see infrastructure built to help create demand for technology industries. Republicans would enact economic policies that would reduce demand for the tech and almost everything else out there in the markets.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. In fact, much of today's tech wouldn't be here without the sort of liberal thinking it takes to get government to fund research and development,.

so then tell us how much as compared to private sector!

 

[Shanty]

"
The goal of the New Deal was to get Americans back to work. But the New Deal didn't restore employment. In fact, there was even less work on average during the New Deal than before FDR took office. Total hours worked per adult, including government employees, were 18% below their 1929 level between 1930-32, but were 23% lower on average during the New Deal (1933-39). Private hours worked were even lower after FDR took office, averaging 27% below their 1929 level, compared to 18% lower between in 1930-32.

Even comparing hours worked at the end of 1930s to those at the beginning of FDR's presidency doesn't paint a picture of recovery. Total hours worked per adult in 1939 remained about 21% below their 1929 level, compared to a decline of 27% in 1933. And it wasn't just work that remained scarce during the New Deal. Per capita consumption did not recover at all, remaining 25% below its trend level throughout the New Deal, and per-capita nonresidential investment averaged about 60% below trend. The Great Depression clearly continued long after FDR took office.

...

The main lesson we have learned from the New Deal is that wholesale government intervention can -- and does -- deliver the most unintended of consequences. This was true in the 1930s, when artificially high wages and prices kept us depressed for more than a decade, it was true in the 1970s when price controls were used to combat inflation but just produced shortages. It is true today, when poorly designed regulation produced a banking system that took on too much risk."


http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB123353276749137485

Misrepresenting the Recovery from the Great Depression Uneasy Money

Though not wrong in every detail, the version of events offered by Cole and Ohanian is still a shocking distortion of what happened before FDR took office in March 1933. In particular, although Cole and Ohanian are correct that the trough of the Great Depression was reached in July 1932, when the Industrial Production Index stood at 3.67, rising to 4.15 in October, an increase of about 13%, they conveniently leave out the fact that there was a double dip; industrial production was flat in November and started falling in December, the Industrial Production Index dropping to 3.78 in March 1933, barely above its level the previous July. And their assertion that deflation continued during the recovery is even farther from the truth than their description of what happened to industrial production. When industrial production started to rise, the Producer Price Index (PPI) increased almost 1% three months in a row, July to September, the only monthly increases since July 1929. The PPI resumed its downward trend in October, falling about 9% from September 1932 t0 February 1933, at the same time that industrial production peaked and started falling again.

That is why most observers date the trough of the Great Depression in the US not in July 1932, but in March 1933 when FDR took office in the midst of a banking crisis that threatened to drive the US economy even deeper into deflation and depression than it had been in July 1932. So when Cole and Ohanian assert that recovery from the Great Depression started in July 1932, and go on to say that the recovery took place during a period of significant deflation, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that they are twisting the facts to suit their own ideological predilection.

 

[Unkotare]

"
After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933."


FDR s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years UCLA economists calculate UCLA

 

[Unkotare]

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/policy-report/2003/7/powell.pdf

 

[Shanty]

. In fact, much of today's tech wouldn't be here without the sort of liberal thinking it takes to get government to fund research and development,.

so then tell us how much as compared to private sector!

The first computer was ENIAC, which designed to calculate firing tables for artillery for the US Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory. Computers got their start in government spending. Look at how DARPA Net allows you to spew stupidity all across the internet. Why, you can, through the magic of research done by the gub'mint, prove to people world wide how ignorant you are.

 

[Unkotare]

Though not wrong in every detail, the version of events offered by Cole and Ohanian is still a shocking distortion of what happened before FDR took office in March 1933. .

Did you earn your PhD in Economics at the same time as them? Boy, you all must have had some great debates in your graduate classes together!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. In fact, much of today's tech wouldn't be here without the sort of liberal thinking it takes to get government to fund research and development,.

so then tell us how much as compared to private sector!

The first computer was ENIAC, which designed to calculate firing tables for artillery for the US Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory. Computers got their start in government spending. Look at how DARPA Net allows you to spew stupidity all across the internet. Why, you can, through the magic of research done by the gub'mint, prove to people world wide how ignorant you are.

well good then should we hire ex soviet bureaucrats and give America's R&D budgets to them since they can figure out what new inventions to work on better than private industry??

 

[Shanty]

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/policy-report/2003/7/powell.pdf

Cato. LOL.

Real economists say differently.

http://eml.berkeley.edu/~cromer/What Ended the Great Depression.pdf

On Edit: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/1921-and-all-that/

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. Republicans would enact economic policies that would reduce demand for the tech and almost everything else out there in the markets.

dear, notice you always have to be asked to name a policy!!

 

[Shanty]

Though not wrong in every detail, the version of events offered by Cole and Ohanian is still a shocking distortion of what happened before FDR took office in March 1933. .

Did you earn your PhD in Economics at the same time as them? Boy, you all must have had some great debates in your graduate classes together!

I'm not arguing from authority. I'm arguing that if Cole and Ohanian have to distort economic data to make their point, then they haven't bothered to let the data guide them to their answers, and instead have to change the data to fit the answers they want.

 

[Shanty]

. Republicans would enact economic policies that would reduce demand for the tech and almost everything else out there in the markets.

dear, notice you always have to be asked to name a policy!!

It's still the same examples I told you to read before.

Why does your fear make you afraid to be informed?

 

[Shanty]

. In fact, much of today's tech wouldn't be here without the sort of liberal thinking it takes to get government to fund research and development,.

so then tell us how much as compared to private sector!

The first computer was ENIAC, which designed to calculate firing tables for artillery for the US Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory. Computers got their start in government spending. Look at how DARPA Net allows you to spew stupidity all across the internet. Why, you can, through the magic of research done by the gub'mint, prove to people world wide how ignorant you are.

well good then should we hire ex soviet bureaucrats and give America's R&D budgets to them since they can figure out what new inventions to work on better than private industry??

Is that what you want? No wonder conservatives and commies have so much in common.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. Computers got their start in government spending.

so then should we have a lib soviet govt lead the way in all new industries!! I mean if they stumbled onto computers maybe thay can stumble onto everything.. becuase after all they are the government!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Is that what you want? No wonder conservatives and commies have so much in common.

thats what liberals want becuase for example, the govt helped develop the computer industry so why not every industry. We can ask the soviets for help!!

 

[Unkotare]

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/policy-report/2003/7/powell.pdf

Cato. LOL.

Real economists say differently.

Economists at Berkeley are "real" but ones at UCLA are not? Where are you employed as an economist?