No More F's?

[Annie]

Exactly! This is what their website said before this decision was made:
West Potomac High School

It sounds much more benign than how it was reported. This is pretty much the policy our public schools have and I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is wrong with it. Everyone here seems to be under the impression that all kids that don't do well in school are slackers.

Ravi, in reality all mentally/physically healthy kids are slackers if failing. Now that doesn't mean that if they want to turn it around, teachers/schools shouldn't be willing to meet them half way. Truth is, high school age kids are developing, those involved with them should 'get that.'

Now if I were to come into contact with a jr that had blown through their earlier years, now wanting to bring up their GPA, what would I'd advise? Buckle down, consider summer school for added courses. If available, (almost always), take AP or honor classes and ace. Get any help you need, most AP/honors instructors are available near 24/7 online. Go to websites that help you prepare, there are a slew of them. Ace those tests!

I'd say a large portion of high school students are far from mentally healthy for their entire high school career.

enuf to get thru classes. This was lame.

 

[Samson]

I'm somewhat astonished all teachers don't seem to get it:

Giving a kid an "F" opens then to all sorts of criticism.

Here's what ya do:

1. Give very few grades, unless you are forced
2. If you ever construct anything to measure learning, make it damned easy to grade
3. Make sure you give a "Pre test" that is a duplicate of the "Test."
4. Give all the answers on the pretest.
5. Grade so almost everyone gets a "C" (huge bell curve). Only serious discipline problems receive an "F." Make sure you let this group know that their grade mainly depends upon how often you notice that they're in the room. Sleeping should be encouraged.
6. Show lots of movies (at least once a week). Make sure you have an assessment instrument to document the educational value: I.E. "What was the title of the movie?"

 

[Annie]

I'm somewhat astonished all teachers don't seem to get it:

Giving a kid an "F" opens then to all sorts of criticism.

Here's what ya do:

1. Give very few grades, unless you are forced
2. If you ever construct anything to measure learning, make it damned easy to grade
3. Make sure you give a "Pre test" that is a duplicate of the "Test."
4. Give all the answers on the pretest.
5. Grade so almost everyone gets a "C" (huge bell curve). Only serious discipline problems receive an "F." Make sure you let this group know that their grade mainly depends upon how often you notice that they're in the room. Sleeping should be encouraged.
6. Show lots of movies (at least once a week). Make sure you have an assessment instrument to document the educational value: I.E. "What was the title of the movie?"

The fewer the grades the more likely of failure.
You have a problem of letting students know what to study? My pretests are not replicas of tests, but cover the material.
I don't curve.
Gee, how good would teaching history, sociology, or economics without film/video? But heh, if that's what moves you, your kid could opt out.

 

[Trajan]

Fairfax County's West Potomac High School recently shifted to a new grading policy that, while not eliminating F's, aims to reduce their incidence. As The Post's Donna St. George reported, the student report cards mailed out this month didn't contain F's but marks of "I" for incomplete. Under the policy, students will be given additional months to learn the subject matter, complete the required work and get a passing grade. If they fail to do that, the "I" would then be converted to an "F."

Traditionalists are discomfited by the change and the message it sends to students. Shouldn't young people learn that there are consequences for not doing a good job? Are teachers losing the powerful tool of failure as a means to motivate students? And, what about the fairness to the students who put in the effort to do the work on time? Grade inflation is already pernicious, what with weighted student scores, elimination of class ranking and the proliferation of A's on college campuses. Indeed, the loss of credibility in how students are graded - as evidenced by the disparity in how they test on state and national tests - is one reason for the push for common national standards and accountability.

A test for the F

I'm curious whether the students will be expected to learn the material on their own, or if the district will be providing tutors to assist the students with the makeup work. It sounds to me like the teachers will be forced into passing everyone.

Comments?

sounds like the usual self esteem gang at work.
Our kids have some of the highest levels of confidence yet exhibit some of the lowest competence.

 

[Samson]

The fewer the grades the more likely of failure.
You have a problem of letting students know what to study? My pretests are not replicas of tests, but cover the material.
I don't curve.
Gee, how good would teaching history, sociology, or economics without film/video? But heh, if that's what moves you, your kid could opt out.

There is little liklihood of failure if you curb grades, and then you can take as few as possible.

You'll never hear a peep from Admin.

You'll never hear a word from parents.

 

[Annie]

The fewer the grades the more likely of failure.
You have a problem of letting students know what to study? My pretests are not replicas of tests, but cover the material.
I don't curve.
Gee, how good would teaching history, sociology, or economics without film/video? But heh, if that's what moves you, your kid could opt out.

There is little liklihood of failure if you curb grades, and then you can take as few as possible.

You'll never hear a peep from Admin.

You'll never hear a word from parents.

As a student I laughed at curved grades. Never have done it. Truth is if grades NEED to be curved, teaching has failed.

 

[Samson]

The fewer the grades the more likely of failure.
You have a problem of letting students know what to study? My pretests are not replicas of tests, but cover the material.
I don't curve.
Gee, how good would teaching history, sociology, or economics without film/video? But heh, if that's what moves you, your kid could opt out.

There is little liklihood of failure if you curb grades, and then you can take as few as possible.

You'll never hear a peep from Admin.

You'll never hear a word from parents.

As a student I laughed at curved grades. Never have done it. Truth is if grades NEED to be curved, teaching has failed.

Well, the important point is not that anything has been taught, but that life is easy for the teacher that curbs, gives no F's, never argues with Admin., and whose students' parents are blisfully ignorant.

 

[Ravi]

It seems cheaters were being rewarded as well. Bad bad precedent.

Yeah, that part was just stupid.

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, in reality all mentally/physically healthy kids are slackers if failing. Now that doesn't mean that if they want to turn it around, teachers/schools shouldn't be willing to meet them half way. Truth is, high school age kids are developing, those involved with them should 'get that.'

Now if I were to come into contact with a jr that had blown through their earlier years, now wanting to bring up their GPA, what would I'd advise? Buckle down, consider summer school for added courses. If available, (almost always), take AP or honor classes and ace. Get any help you need, most AP/honors instructors are available near 24/7 online. Go to websites that help you prepare, there are a slew of them. Ace those tests!

I'd say a large portion of high school students are far from mentally healthy for their entire high school career.

enuf to get thru classes. This was lame.

I don't know what grade you teach or what mix of students but it is certainly true that many high school students have issues...most go away eventually, but it does affect them and their work, even if for only a quarter or two.

 

[Ravi]

The fewer the grades the more likely of failure.
You have a problem of letting students know what to study? My pretests are not replicas of tests, but cover the material.
I don't curve.
Gee, how good would teaching history, sociology, or economics without film/video? But heh, if that's what moves you, your kid could opt out.

There is little liklihood of failure if you curb grades, and then you can take as few as possible.

You'll never hear a peep from Admin.

You'll never hear a word from parents.

It's curve you dolt, not curb. It's apparent you were just pushed along from grade to grade to get rid of you.

 

[Samson]

The fewer the grades the more likely of failure.
You have a problem of letting students know what to study? My pretests are not replicas of tests, but cover the material.
I don't curve.
Gee, how good would teaching history, sociology, or economics without film/video? But heh, if that's what moves you, your kid could opt out.

There is little liklihood of failure if you curb grades, and then you can take as few as possible.

You'll never hear a peep from Admin.

You'll never hear a word from parents.

It's curve you dolt, not curb. It's apparent you were just pushed along from grade to grade to get rid of you.

Interestingly, you knew exactly what I meant....

Curving the grade is a great way to allow everyone to pass, including Ravi.

 

[Annie]

There is little liklihood of failure if you curb grades, and then you can take as few as possible.

You'll never hear a peep from Admin.

You'll never hear a word from parents.

It's curve you dolt, not curb. It's apparent you were just pushed along from grade to grade to get rid of you.

Interestingly, you knew exactly what I meant....

Curving the grade is a great way to allow everyone to pass, including Ravi.

I never curved grades, if too many cannot score above 75%, something was wrong with the test or the presentation of material-need to start over. Actually even with subbing in high school, haven't seen tests that were curved. Perhaps it's falling out of practice?

 

[Samson]

It's curve you dolt, not curb. It's apparent you were just pushed along from grade to grade to get rid of you.

Interestingly, you knew exactly what I meant....

Curving the grade is a great way to allow everyone to pass, including Ravi.

I never curved grades, if too many cannot score above 75%, something was wrong with the test or the presentation of material-need to start over. Actually even with subbing in high school, haven't seen tests that were curved. Perhaps it's falling out of practice?

Well, in either case:

1. Something was wrong with the test
2. Something was wrong with the presentation (which, I might add, is NOT necessarily the fault of the teacher)

Who is penalized?

A. If you count the grade, then all the kids with scores below 75%.

B. If you don't count the grade, then all the kids with scores above 75%.

Or, you could allow anyone to retake the test. When? Afterschool? Before School?

Then, in addition to measuring whatever the students learned, you also measure how dedicated they are to spending time after or before school (which has nothing to do with the purpose of public schooling).

 

[chanel]

In one of my classes this year there were quite a few failures on a lit quiz. I allowed the students to schedule a retake which many took advantage of. The next quiz, several kids asked to have a retake as soon as they handed their papers in. I said I'd have to grade them first and decide. They were shocked and admitted they didn't study BECAUSE they thought they could automatically take it again. A policy like this could actually hurt some kids IMHO. Even the best and brightest amongst us like to procrastinate. Self included.

 

[Samson]

In one of my classes this year there were quite a few failures on a lit quiz. I allowed the students to schedule a retake which many took advantage of. The next quiz, several kids asked to have a retake as soon as they handed their papers in. I said I'd have to grade them first and decide. They were shocked and admitted they didn't study BECAUSE they thought they could automatically take it again. A policy like this could actually hurt some kids IMHO. Even the best and brightest amongst us like to procrastinate. Self included.

Schedule a re-take, when?

 

[chanel]

Before or after school or during their study hall. Why do you ask?

 

[Granny]

This no "Fs" policy is nothing new to VA schools. Some 20+ years ago when my kids were in school, teachers used this ruse to pass up students to the next grade - anything to get them out of their classroom. The "experts" also tried the idea that if we just let kids take the classes that interested them, they would excel. That didn't work out well for the students either.

Of course, all of this was going on at the height of the new child abuse frenzy - teaching kids to snitch, etc. Anything that might remotely traumatize a kid and "mark them for life" was taboo. We've seen some years of these concepts in practice and the "experts" were right ... but not in the way they envisioned things. When the kids hit the real world and had no education they were "traumatized" by the lack of attaining really good jobs and they were "marked for life" as the losers of the work place.

 

[Samson]

Before or after school or during their study hall. Why do you ask?

Ah...they all have study hall?

If they test before or after school, then you are testing their ability to get to school early, or to get a ride home.

 

[chanel]

My brother's school gives E's instead of F's. When anyone asks what an "E" is, they say an "F". That really helps the kids learn better, eh? Lol

 

[Samson]

My brother's school gives E's instead of F's. When anyone asks what an "E" is, they say an "F". That really helps the kids learn better, eh? Lol

I wonder if all the parents understand that an F is pretty easily changed to an E