New Swiftvets ad hits the airwaves.

[Democrat4Bush]

It's pretty busy right now.

I think the title says it all.

http://swift2.he.net/~swift2/sellout.mpg

 

[busch2008]

It's pretty busy right now.

I think the title says it all.

http://swift2.he.net/~swift2/sellout.mpg

I don't believe in the Swiftboat Vets for Bush anymore...

Nixon originally brought out John O’Neill to attack Kerry back in 1971.
June 2, 1971: Oval Office meeting with Bob Haldeman
Haldeman: We got these guys now forming this Veterans for a – Peace with Justice, or uh – the veterans –
Nixon: They came in to see me? Are they here?
Haldeman: No we don’t want them to be able to see you yet. We don’t want to –
Nixon: Who are they?
Haldeman: Well, it’s this guy, uh, he’s got a beard, one of ‘em, and there’s this Navy officer [John O'Neill], just got out yesterday –
President: Yeah.
Haldeman: -- crew cut, real sharp looking guy who is more articulate than Kerry. He’s not as eloquent; he isn’t the ham that Kerry is. But he’s more believable.
[edit]
Haldeman: Colson put this together.
[edit]
Haldeman: This guy now [O’Neill], is gonna, he’s gonna move on Kerry. He’s gonna move around the country.
Source: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534613
According to the Wall Street Journal and quoted by many Right Wing Pundits:
"I was on Mr. Kerry’s boat in Vietnam. He doesn’t deserve to be commander in chief." – John O’Neill, Swift Boat Commander, US Navy, Vietnam. (The Wall Street Journal, May 4, 2004).
John O’Neill was indeed assigned to Kerry’s boat, after Kerry was no longer serving on said boat. What the Right Wing is actually saying is a man who served on Kerry’s boat while Kerry wasn’t on it thinks Kerry is unfit to serve.

John O'Neill has now been willingly used by two presidents to attack John Kerry though he says he's non-partisan. He's a Texas Lawyer, associates in his firm have represented Bush in the past. He's angry at Kerry for what he said about the War after he came home, but O'Neill the leader of the "Unfit for Command" book never actually served with Kerry though he suggests otherwise. This group is getting a lot of mileage out of this smear campaign against Kerry, its unfortunate, but that's how politics is sometimes.

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't believe in the Swiftboat Vets for Bush anymore...

Nixon originally brought out John O’Neill to attack Kerry back in 1971.
June 2, 1971: Oval Office meeting with Bob Haldeman
Haldeman: We got these guys now forming this Veterans for a – Peace with Justice, or uh – the veterans –
Nixon: They came in to see me? Are they here?
Haldeman: No we don’t want them to be able to see you yet. We don’t want to –
Nixon: Who are they?
Haldeman: Well, it’s this guy, uh, he’s got a beard, one of ‘em, and there’s this Navy officer [John O'Neill], just got out yesterday –
President: Yeah.
Haldeman: -- crew cut, real sharp looking guy who is more articulate than Kerry. He’s not as eloquent; he isn’t the ham that Kerry is. But he’s more believable.
[edit]
Haldeman: Colson put this together.
[edit]
Haldeman: This guy now [O’Neill], is gonna, he’s gonna move on Kerry. He’s gonna move around the country.
Source: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4534613
According to the Wall Street Journal and quoted by many Right Wing Pundits:
"I was on Mr. Kerry’s boat in Vietnam. He doesn’t deserve to be commander in chief." – John O’Neill, Swift Boat Commander, US Navy, Vietnam. (The Wall Street Journal, May 4, 2004).
John O’Neill was indeed assigned to Kerry’s boat, after Kerry was no longer serving on said boat. What the Right Wing is actually saying is a man who served on Kerry’s boat while Kerry wasn’t on it thinks Kerry is unfit to serve.

John O'Neill has now been willingly used by two presidents to attack John Kerry though he says he's non-partisan. He's a Texas Lawyer, associates in his firm have represented Bush in the past. He's angry at Kerry for what he said about the War after he came home, but O'Neill the leader of the "Unfit for Command" book never actually served with Kerry though he suggests otherwise. This group is getting a lot of mileage out of this smear campaign against Kerry, its unfortunate, but that's how politics is sometimes.

Nice try. Only problem with this is Kerry is the one who is inconsistant.

Kerry is the one whose story is changing every time he tells it.

Kerry is the one who is unwilling to answer any questions on the matter.

Kerry is the one who refuses to release his service records to refute these guys.

The fact that Kerry has all his surrogates trying to disqualify the veterans instead of dealing with the challenges they present says alot. If Kerry is being honest its not hard to prove. release the records.

I also think you are stretching if you want to make this some Republican conspiracy. You are also stretching if you think anything you quoted actually proves such a baseless assumption. Kerry maligned the record of these men. They have the opportunity now to set the record straight. If Kerry has problems with that he should have thought of that before he accused his fellow soldiers of war crimes.

 

[Democrat4Bush]

busch2008
If you watch the ad, it's all John Kerry's own words.

Guy hung himself with this one.

 

[musicman]

The democrats called the tune with this 527 business. It was all well and good when it worked against George Bush. Now, it's come back to bite them in the ass, and they want to change the rules. They're so predictable.

 

[busch2008]

Nice try. Only problem with this is Kerry is the one who is inconsistant.

Kerry is the one whose story is changing every time he tells it.

Kerry is the one who is unwilling to answer any questions on the matter.

Kerry is the one who refuses to release his service records to refute these guys.

The fact that Kerry has all his surrogates trying to disqualify the veterans instead of dealing with the challenges they present says alot. If Kerry is being honest its not hard to prove. release the records.

I also think you are stretching if you want to make this some Republican conspiracy. You are also stretching if you think anything you quoted actually proves such a baseless assumption. Kerry maligned the record of these men. They have the opportunity now to set the record straight. If Kerry has problems with that he should have thought of that before he accused his fellow soldiers of war crimes.

I think the tables will turn on the Swiftboat Vets for Bush soon enough, I only hope Bush suffers in the polls because of this debacle. According to ABC news, Kerry is preparing a viscious offensive against Bush's own service during the Vietnam period. This could quickly Backfire on the Bush bunch if they're not careful.....

In an unpublished interview in March 2003 with Mr. Kerry's authorized biographer, Douglas Brinkley, provided by Mr. Brinkley to The New York Times , Roy F. Hoffmann, a retired rear admiral and a leader of the group, allowed that he had disagreed with Mr. Kerry's antiwar positions but said, 'I am not going to say anything negative about him.' He added, 'He's a good man.'"

"The group also offers the account of William L. Schachte Jr., a retired rear admiral who says in the book that he had been on the small skimmer on which Mr. Kerry was injured that night in December 1968. He contends that Mr. Kerry wounded himself while firing a grenade."

"But the two other men who acknowledged that they had been with Mr. Kerry, Bill Zaladonis and Mr. Runyon, say they cannot recall a third crew member. "Me and Bill aren't the smartest, but we can count to three," Mr. Runyon said in an interview. And even Dr. Letson said he had not recalled Mr. Schachte until he had a conversation with another veteran earlier this year and received a subsequent phone call from Mr. Schachte himself."

ABC News' Jake Tapper reported today on "Good Morning America": "In addition to the involvement of Perry, other GOP donors, and former Reagan White House media liaison Merrie Spaeth, O'Neill told ABC News that when his group was forming, he sought and received free legal advice from Jan Baran, an expert on election law who … was the former counsel for George H.W. Bush's 1988 presidential campaign, and for four years counsel to the Republican National Committee."

Some Vietnam crewmates of Kerry's urged him over the last week to personally condemn the swift boat ads, a task he left until yesterday to spokesmen and friends like McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam. But according to aides, Kerry was particularly incensed Wednesday when he heard reports that Bush donor Perry had written a second $100,000 check to continue financing the group and stayed up late that night writing eight new paragraphs to insert into the speech," reports the Boston Globe 's Pat Healy.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html

 

[musicman]

Busch 2008:

Wow - that's quite a scandal you've uncovered! The people who are financing the swiftboat ads are in ideological agreement with George Bush??!!!


Those BASTARDS!

 

[busch2008]

Busch 2008:

Wow - that's quite a scandal you've uncovered! The people who are financing the swiftboat ads are in ideological agreement with George Bush??!!!


Those BASTARDS!

I think the funding of such a group is certainly important in judging their credibility, yes.

 

[busch2008]

Busch 2008:

Wow - that's quite a scandal you've uncovered! The people who are financing the swiftboat ads are in ideological agreement with George Bush??!!!


Those BASTARDS!

Also, Fackcheck.org, has a piece about the swiftboat vets that further diminishes their credibility: http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

While These Republican funded veterens are slamming Kerry, other witnesses disagree -- and so do Navy records. So should we believe the Republican funded vets whose stories tend to change or be inconsistent at best or should we believe those who actually served under Kerry and the Naval Records? Seems like a no brainer to me. If John O'Neill is willing to say he "Served on Kerry's boat" but doesn't mention that Kerry was no longer commanding Kerry's boat....that just reeks of partisan BS. You can't explain it away either, its too cutsie. And furthermore, pitting Veterans against each other is pretty loathsome, don't you think?

 

[OLDVOTER]

I, For One Am So Discouraged That Bush Promotes Those Ads
About Kerry..when He(kerry) Fought For Our Country.....is There
No Respect Now From Bush For All The Soldiers He Has Sent Into
Battle....mccain Was 6 Yrs A War Prisioner, And Bush Drug Him
Over The Coals.....he Has No Respect For War Heroe's.....

 

[busch2008]

I, For One Am So Discouraged That Bush Promotes Those Ads
About Kerry..when He(kerry) Fought For Our Country.....is There
No Respect Now From Bush For All The Soldiers He Has Sent Into
Battle....mccain Was 6 Yrs A War Prisioner, And Bush Drug Him
Over The Coals.....he Has No Respect For War Heroe's.....

In my humble opinion, Bush should denounce the ads. It may benefit his poll numbers in the short term, it might be good slander for his cause, but it will come back to bite him if he doesn't.
Bush’s own Service Record is quite vulnerable, and if ABC News is correct, the Kerry folks and his surrogates will soon unleash a relentless attack on Bush’s questionable service during the Vietnam period. What comes around goes around as they say.

 

[insein]

I think the funding of such a group is certainly important in judging their credibility, yes.

George Soros funds Moveon.org to the tune of 10 million dollars. A far cry from the few hundred thousand that this Texas Republican has given to Swift boat vets for Truth. George Soros has clearly stated that he is a liberal/democrat and has a greta hatred of George Bush. Where's your stance on moveon.org's ads that actually are false?

 

[insein]

I, For One Am So Discouraged That Bush Promotes Those Ads
About Kerry..when He(kerry) Fought For Our Country.....is There
No Respect Now From Bush For All The Soldiers He Has Sent Into
Battle....mccain Was 6 Yrs A War Prisioner, And Bush Drug Him
Over The Coals.....he Has No Respect For War Heroe's.....

Where's your proof that Bush promotes these ads? Bush has come out and said he is in no way affiliated with the Swift boat Vets for Truth.

As for Kerry's service, who better to debate that then the people that fought with him.

Welcome to the boards. Your stay will be short with a mind as closed as that.

 

[insein]

In my humble opinion, Bush should denounce the ads. It may benefit his poll numbers in the short term, it might be good slander for his cause, but it will come back to bite him if he doesn't.
Bush’s own Service Record is quite vulnerable, and if ABC News is correct, the Kerry folks and his surrogates will soon unleash a relentless attack on Bush’s questionable service during the Vietnam period. What comes around goes around as they say.

What do you mean soon? They've been attacking his service for the past 2 years after their initial attack during 2000 died down. Bush has released his records unlike Kerry. They are there for you to see. He served his time in the National Guard.

As for Kerry's service, if he hadnt made it the central support of his campaign, he wouldnt have had to worry about these relentless attacks from HIS COMRADES. However, when you said what he said (if you look at the ad above) how can you defend him as an HONORABLE WAR HERO when he defamed his fellow soldiers like that?

 

[busch2008]

George Soros funds Moveon.org to the tune of 10 million dollars. A far cry from the few hundred thousand that this Texas Republican has given to Swift boat vets for Truth. George Soros has clearly stated that he is a liberal/democrat and has a greta hatred of George Bush. Where's your stance on moveon.org's ads that actually are false?

Moveon.org doesn't even pretend to be nonpartisan.

SBVT is officially nonpartisan, but has several ties to Republican Party politics. Notably, its media representative, Merrie Spaeth, was a Reagan administration press officer and an advisor to Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think the tables will turn on the Swiftboat Vets for Bush soon enough, I only hope Bush suffers in the polls because of this debacle. According to ABC news, Kerry is preparing a viscious offensive against Bush's own service during the Vietnam period. This could quickly Backfire on the Bush bunch if they're not careful.....

That wont hurt Bush at all. For one, he has a fine record, an honorable discharge. And lie about what the soldiers did. Besides the DNC have already kicked that dead horse in Feb. Besides, any offensive the Kerry camp is about to begin is going to overshadowed by the protesters at the Republican convention rioting and making Democrats look bad in general. And lastly, Bush isnt running on national guard service. So its not an issue. Kerry has made his service the centerpiece of his campaign.

 

[insein]

Moveon.org doesn't even pretend to be nonpartisan.

SBVT is officially nonpartisan, but has several ties to Republican Party politics. Notably, its media representative, Merrie Spaeth, was a Reagan administration press officer and an advisor to Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment.

Really? Where does it say that moveon.org isn't nonpartisan? They seem to think they are right down the middle.

http://moveon.org/about/

 

[Merlin1047]

In my humble opinion, Bush should denounce the ads. It may benefit his poll numbers in the short term, it might be good slander for his cause, but it will come back to bite him if he doesn't.
Bush’s own Service Record is quite vulnerable, and if ABC News is correct, the Kerry folks and his surrogates will soon unleash a relentless attack on Bush’s questionable service during the Vietnam period. What comes around goes around as they say.

Slander??? The truth, no matter how unpleasant or inconvenient cannot be redefined - even by inventive liberals - as slander or libel.

And other than one statement which is open to interpretation, you have failed to show where ANY statement by the Swift Boat Vet group is false.

 

[Merlin1047]

I, For One Am So Discouraged That Bush Promotes Those Ads
About Kerry..when He(kerry) Fought For Our Country.....is There
No Respect Now From Bush For All The Soldiers He Has Sent Into
Battle....mccain Was 6 Yrs A War Prisioner, And Bush Drug Him
Over The Coals.....he Has No Respect For War Heroe's.....

Interesting that you should see fit to berate Pres. Bush, who has no involvement in these ads, about lack of respect.

Apparently you have no respect for those veterans who are guilty of doing nothing more than attempting to get the truth about kerry out in front of the voters.

Is your "respect" reserved only for those who toe the liberal line along with you?

 

[Avatar4321]

I, For One Am So Discouraged That Bush Promotes Those Ads
About Kerry..when He(kerry) Fought For Our Country.....is There
No Respect Now From Bush For All The Soldiers He Has Sent Into
Battle....mccain Was 6 Yrs A War Prisioner, And Bush Drug Him
Over The Coals.....he Has No Respect For War Heroe's.....

You know you have some nerve. Claiming to be concerned about the reputation of Veterans when you are accusing nearly over 100 Swift Boat veterans of lying, when John Kerry has done nothing to disprove their eye witness accounts. Kerry wont even release his military records when thats all it would take to prove alot of them wrong if they are wrong.

Not only that you have the audacity to speak in favor of a man who betrayed his country when he lied about what his fellow veterans did in Vietnam and gave comfort to the Viet Cong. And then you complain that Bush doesnt respect Veterans? Where the heck do you get off doing that? Can we say: double standard?

Benedict Arnold was a War hero. Does that excuse his actions afterwards? Does John Kerry getting medals excuse his actions afterwards? Being a war hero doesnt mean that you are excused from scrutiny.

Frankly i could care less about Kerry's service. I would have been fine focusing on the issues, but no Kerry has to make it an issue. Hence, its a campaign issue. John Kerry and John Edwards said to ask those who served with him what kind of leader he would be. Those who served with him are speaking and now Kerry wants them to shut up. Cant have it both ways.